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Reply #4: Idylic pastoralism is wonderful in theory, [View All]

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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-10 08:32 AM
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4. Idylic pastoralism is wonderful in theory,
In practice it is impossible. If everybody moved back to the land, then you would have massive commuter problems because people would have to work in order to bring in cash. More traffic, more pollution.

Furthermore, there simply isn't enough arable land. On average, assuming most folks are omnivores, a couple needs ten acres to raise enough food for themselves. That means that we need 1.5 billion acres to fulfill this need. Given that there is a total of 1.2 billion acres total in this country, you simply won't be able to fit everybody onto the land.

You're right, it is easier to survive hard economic times in the country than in the city. But frankly, for those of us already out here, we don't want to see a flood of newcomers invading the area. That's why we moved out here, we like the quiet and solitude, and the fact that it is rural areas that are providing refuges for many species of animals and plants. If you open the floodgates, you're going to get a massive wave of complete idiots coming out here, with their noise, pollution and idiocy, and this last natural refuge in our country will disappear completely.
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  -People are poor because they have no land. zeemike  Aug-21-10 08:10 AM   #0 
  - Good, truthful OP  AnArmyVeteran   Aug-21-10 08:20 AM   #1 
  - Thanks. n/t  zeemike   Aug-21-10 08:27 AM   #2 
  - People are poor because they have abandoned the land  Skidmore   Aug-21-10 08:29 AM   #3 
  - A beautiful tribute to our natural self.  zeemike   Aug-21-10 08:36 AM   #5 
  - Too true  tech9413   Aug-21-10 08:49 AM   #8 
  - They haven't abandoned the land, they were forced off it.  blindpig   Aug-21-10 09:12 AM   #16 
  - +1000  corkhead   Aug-21-10 10:53 AM   #42 
  - Idylic pastoralism is wonderful in theory,  MadHound   Aug-21-10 08:32 AM   #4 
  - Well I disagree with that completely.  zeemike   Aug-21-10 08:46 AM   #6 
     - First of all, as I've stated, there simply isn't enough arable land in this country  MadHound   Aug-21-10 09:01 AM   #12 
        - First there are errors in your thinking.  zeemike   Aug-21-10 09:14 AM   #17 
        - No, there are no errors in my thinking, only practical experience  MadHound   Aug-21-10 03:34 PM   #50 
           - Here are some figures.  zeemike   Aug-21-10 04:46 PM   #55 
              - Yes, you get approximately three acres per person  MadHound   Aug-21-10 05:47 PM   #61 
                 - First a family usually consists of at least 3 people not one.  zeemike   Aug-22-10 11:13 AM   #67 
        - There are 470 million acres of cultivatable land in the U.S.  Xithras   Aug-21-10 03:00 PM   #49 
  - Ah the good old days. When the population of this entire country  david13   Aug-21-10 08:48 AM   #7 
  - Actually I spent some time reading the history of this country  zeemike   Aug-21-10 08:57 AM   #10 
  - Now you need to update and read the part where the wealth of the  david13   Aug-21-10 09:18 AM   #19 
     - Ask the farmers. Farmers don't make any money today. And there  david13   Aug-21-10 09:20 AM   #21 
     - Well let me pose this question.  zeemike   Aug-21-10 09:31 AM   #24 
        - I can answer the question. It's rhetorical, not practical. But first,  david13   Aug-21-10 09:42 AM   #26 
           - and if you have no gold no one will take it.  zeemike   Aug-21-10 09:50 AM   #29 
              - But if you are poor, if you have no money, how much land can you  david13   Aug-21-10 10:04 AM   #31 
                 - But that is the question I am asking.  zeemike   Aug-21-10 10:20 AM   #35 
                    - I thought the question was "back to the land". Answer. It ain't possible. dc  david13   Aug-21-10 10:28 AM   #38 
  - Over-population  More_liberal_than_mo   Aug-21-10 09:42 AM   #25 
     - Certainly posible. Maybe even probable. dc  david13   Aug-21-10 09:46 AM   #28 
  - The AMERICAN Indians thought that LAND ownership was  Ichingcarpenter   Aug-21-10 08:51 AM   #9 
  - And I agree with them.  zeemike   Aug-21-10 08:59 AM   #11 
  - New Mexico... ahh.... I miss her  Ichingcarpenter   Aug-21-10 09:07 AM   #14 
     - And the Native Americans continue to sustain themselves  zeemike   Aug-21-10 09:16 AM   #18 
        - My introduction to the Zunis from my 'uncle'  Ichingcarpenter   Aug-21-10 09:29 AM   #23 
        - Whoa. The primary sustenance of native americans today is:  david13   Aug-21-10 10:27 AM   #37 
           - Broke or not they endured all these years because they had land  zeemike   Aug-21-10 10:42 AM   #41 
              - Not really. They survived because they had sustenance. They  david13   Aug-21-10 10:56 AM   #43 
                 - You are probably not aware of it but  zeemike   Aug-21-10 11:43 AM   #45 
                    - Actually, I am. It is known as subsistence farming. Barely eking out  david13   Aug-21-10 02:20 PM   #47 
                       - I am sure subsistence farming is all boring and useless. to you  zeemike   Aug-21-10 04:21 PM   #51 
                          - And we would be poor if we were to turn to subsistence farming.  david13   Aug-21-10 04:32 PM   #53 
  - Yet they fought over land and massacred each other over it all the time.  naaman fletcher   Aug-21-10 05:14 PM   #59 
     - I almost fell for that flaim bait...n/t  zeemike   Aug-21-10 06:02 PM   #66 
  - "when we gave up the land to industry"  Indydem   Aug-21-10 09:04 AM   #13 
  - It is the attitude that land is a tool that is the problem.  zeemike   Aug-21-10 09:24 AM   #22 
  - Baloney. Look at Rhodesia/Zimbabwe and land redistribution --  elehhhhna   Aug-21-10 09:12 AM   #15 
  - Baloney  Ichingcarpenter   Aug-21-10 09:19 AM   #20 
  - Better yet look at how it became Rhodesia.  zeemike   Aug-21-10 09:43 AM   #27 
  - I'll tell you what's frustating to me, as someone trying to sell a home...  pipi_k   Aug-21-10 10:03 AM   #30 
  - I don't believe this would work without a certain amount of depopulation  el_bryanto   Aug-21-10 10:06 AM   #32 
  - Not everyone need live on a farm to be self sustaining.  zeemike   Aug-21-10 10:30 AM   #39 
  - just previewed some 400K homes in my area  Donnachaidh   Aug-21-10 10:06 AM   #33 
  - A must read or those interested in this topic: Earth Democracy nt  wiggs   Aug-21-10 10:13 AM   #34 
  - 40 acres and a mule.....  a kennedy   Aug-21-10 10:22 AM   #36 
  - And imagine what would happen if we did it now?  zeemike   Aug-21-10 10:37 AM   #40 
  - A little bit of heaven on earth.  tourivers83   Aug-21-10 10:57 AM   #44 
  - That sounds like a wonderful life.  zeemike   Aug-21-10 11:45 AM   #46 
  - ah the good old days.  naaman fletcher   Aug-21-10 02:30 PM   #48 
  - No false dichotomies please.  zeemike   Aug-21-10 04:24 PM   #52 
     - they go hand in hand.  naaman fletcher   Aug-21-10 05:08 PM   #57 
        - Difficult work can be rewarding.  zeemike   Aug-21-10 05:39 PM   #60 
  - The OP Proves That Regressive Thinking and Nostalgia for the Past  Yavin4   Aug-21-10 04:41 PM   #54 
  - Fair enough comment.  zeemike   Aug-21-10 04:58 PM   #56 
     - Back When We All Had Land  Yavin4   Aug-21-10 05:11 PM   #58 
        - +1 completely agree with this post. n/t  taught_me_patience   Aug-21-10 05:50 PM   #63 
        - Not at all  zeemike   Aug-21-10 05:54 PM   #64 
  - I completely and totally disagree with this  taught_me_patience   Aug-21-10 05:50 PM   #62 
     - Not everyone wants or needs it.  zeemike   Aug-21-10 05:58 PM   #65 

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