hay rick
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Sun Aug-15-10 08:19 PM
Response to Reply #105 |
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I think I covered your point in my next sentence:"As regards the consequences, this is not very different from what has already happened. The difference is that Obama has lost significant progressive support for not really trying."
We agree that the stimulus plan was too timid to work and the primary reason for a crippled bill was the need for Republican and DINO support, particularly in the Senate. I think the second important reason was Obama's wishful thinking. Because economics is an inexact science, he believed that there was a chance that a small stimulus bill, abetted by the magical self-healing self-correcting mechanisms of the marketplace might be sufficient. Recall the projections of unemployment peaking around 8% with the stimulus plan in place.
In this way of thinking, the stimulus plan might work, and if it didn't it was still better than nothing and you could at least say you tried. Of course in America ca. 2010, you are more likely to hear talking heads cozying up to the idea that the "size problem" with the stimulus is that it was too big.
I wonder what's at the bottom of this hill. Looks like a long way down.
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| -Bob Herbert: "Obama's problem is that he did not make job creation the nation's highest priority" |
Better Believe It |
Aug-14-10 11:05 PM |
#0 |
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k and r nt |
steve2470 |
Aug-14-10 11:06 PM |
#1 |
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Obama's Problem Is He Didn't Make PEOPLE His Highest Priority |
Demeter |
Aug-15-10 02:29 AM |
#25 |
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sure he did -- WEALTHY *people* got him jumping through hoops from the git go |
Donnachaidh |
Aug-15-10 09:32 AM |
#46 |
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At That Level of $$$ They Aren't PEOPLE Any More |
Demeter |
Aug-15-10 01:41 PM |
#66 |
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sure they are -- elitist people who write checks for campaigns |
Donnachaidh |
Aug-15-10 03:17 PM |
#74 |
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K&R n/t |
OhioChick |
Aug-14-10 11:10 PM |
#2 |
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Raise you a K/R |
emilyg |
Aug-15-10 12:15 AM |
#16 |
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"If the Republicans had balked, and they would have," |
ProSense |
Aug-14-10 11:12 PM |
#3 |
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No, he could've made their opposition so politically unpopular, |
Marr |
Aug-14-10 11:20 PM |
#5 |
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You mean like they did |
ProSense |
Aug-14-10 11:24 PM |
#6 |
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If we can both agree that it wasn't enough, where is the argument? |
Marr |
Aug-14-10 11:40 PM |
#9 |
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Really? |
ProSense |
Aug-14-10 11:50 PM |
#12 |
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You'd be surprised what rose colored glasses really do. That and....... |
pattmarty |
Aug-15-10 09:25 AM |
#45 |
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100% |
Knight Hawk |
Aug-15-10 10:14 PM |
#122 |
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For all his flaws, I miss Bill. |
tblue |
Aug-15-10 11:01 PM |
#125 |
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If the Republicans had balked.... |
AlbertCat |
Aug-15-10 02:39 PM |
#69 |
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The perils of democracy. |
hay rick |
Aug-15-10 07:01 PM |
#102 |
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Huh? |
Better Believe It |
Aug-15-10 07:26 PM |
#105 |
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Two obstacles. |
hay rick |
Aug-15-10 08:19 PM |
#111 |
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Huh? |
Better Believe It |
Aug-15-10 07:26 PM |
#106 |
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He is blaming them now and we are still deep without jobs. We needed |
fogonthelake |
Aug-15-10 08:19 PM |
#110 |
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Deleted message |
Name removed |
Aug-14-10 11:15 PM |
#4 |
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nothing succeeds like failure that makes tons of $$ for corporations anyway nt |
msongs |
Aug-14-10 11:29 PM |
#7 |
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$230 billloin was awarded for 'rebuild America,' road repair projects, modernizing the electric grid |
Rosa Luxemburg |
Aug-14-10 11:31 PM |
#8 |
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While $12+ trillion is being gambled for bankers |
MannyGoldstein |
Aug-14-10 11:40 PM |
#10 |
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have all the banks paid their debts back yet? |
Rosa Luxemburg |
Aug-15-10 12:09 AM |
#15 |
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What debts? |
girl gone mad |
Aug-15-10 04:22 AM |
#28 |
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Some "paid in back" in stock worth 0.66 for every dollar they took |
Lorien |
Aug-15-10 09:07 PM |
#116 |
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Where is the "12+trillion" number coming from? |
SunsetDreams |
Aug-15-10 12:28 AM |
#17 |
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Here, for example |
MannyGoldstein |
Aug-15-10 07:49 AM |
#37 |
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What Exactly Was the Bank Bailout Bill? |
SunsetDreams |
Aug-15-10 12:43 AM |
#20 |
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You've missed quite a bit. |
girl gone mad |
Aug-15-10 04:26 AM |
#29 |
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"hush-hush programs and crunches the hidden numbers" |
SunsetDreams |
Aug-15-10 04:39 AM |
#30 |
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The inspector General overseeing TARP, Neil Barofsky, |
girl gone mad |
Aug-15-10 08:21 PM |
#112 |
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That really demonstrates how puny, as Noriel Roubini put it, the stimulus plan was. |
Better Believe It |
Aug-15-10 06:46 PM |
#100 |
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$230 billion.. |
sendero |
Aug-15-10 05:47 AM |
#33 |
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China put billions into its infrastructure and I don't think it has worked either |
Rosa Luxemburg |
Aug-15-10 12:33 PM |
#58 |
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It actually seems to be working accordng to all recent reports I've read. |
Better Believe It |
Aug-15-10 01:18 PM |
#64 |
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then we should send a party out to see how it's done? |
Rosa Luxemburg |
Aug-15-10 01:53 PM |
#67 |
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No need for that. Invest a few trillion in infrastructure, substantially increase mimimum wages, |
Better Believe It |
Aug-15-10 06:30 PM |
#94 |
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China's busy fixing the same problems we have |
Patchuli |
Aug-15-10 07:53 PM |
#109 |
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China's |
dotymed |
Aug-16-10 07:15 AM |
#129 |
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k to the r |
Jim Sagle |
Aug-14-10 11:49 PM |
#11 |
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The waste is staggering yet even now we stay the course..to Davey Jones locker |
TheKentuckian |
Aug-14-10 11:56 PM |
#13 |
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Have you seen the infrastructure in India?... but their economy is "blazing"... |
LooseWilly |
Aug-15-10 02:26 AM |
#24 |
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I do not agree with this article ... |
and-justice-for-all |
Aug-15-10 12:06 AM |
#14 |
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Are you sure that it is the article that you don't agree with? |
LooseWilly |
Aug-15-10 02:58 AM |
#26 |
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Excellent reiteration! |
rusty fender |
Aug-15-10 11:02 AM |
#55 |
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Why thank you... |
LooseWilly |
Aug-15-10 05:00 PM |
#86 |
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FAIL...nt |
and-justice-for-all |
Aug-16-10 11:30 AM |
#134 |
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You're kidding, right? |
pattmarty |
Aug-15-10 09:33 AM |
#48 |
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Nope, just circlejerkular logic on display there. |
Mithreal |
Aug-15-10 05:16 PM |
#90 |
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Of course not. Jobs? From the President? Don't be silly. It's Woodchuck 101. |
Mithreal |
Aug-15-10 05:10 PM |
#88 |
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Even if he does make it his highest priority |
notesdev |
Aug-15-10 12:33 AM |
#18 |
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He only has Advisors of the Conservative Mindset---the private |
OHdem10 |
Aug-15-10 12:37 AM |
#19 |
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Too much of the money was given to the rich, with no meaningful strings. |
snot |
Aug-15-10 12:53 AM |
#21 |
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Bingo!!!!!!! |
pattmarty |
Aug-15-10 09:34 AM |
#49 |
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They only wanted to kick start the same corrupt, debt-based financial model that |
Marr |
Aug-15-10 11:28 AM |
#56 |
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No, Obama's problem was the filibustering minority Repubs didn't make jobs Job #1 n/t |
krispos42 |
Aug-15-10 01:58 AM |
#22 |
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Oooh, filibuster! Scary! Must run and hide! |
Lydia Leftcoast |
Aug-15-10 09:32 AM |
#47 |
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It's obvious... |
sendero |
Aug-15-10 06:45 PM |
#99 |
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2 parties |
dotymed |
Aug-16-10 07:30 AM |
#130 |
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What filibuster? The fake pretend kind? Those can be easily overcome under Senate rules as ... |
Better Believe It |
Aug-15-10 06:38 PM |
#97 |
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Yeah, except that changing the rules would require Dems to go along... |
krispos42 |
Aug-15-10 10:51 PM |
#124 |
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It's still not his number one priority. I don't think he will ever get it. |
dkf |
Aug-15-10 02:17 AM |
#23 |
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"the public was poised to respond to bold leadership" |
XemaSab |
Aug-15-10 03:11 AM |
#27 |
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Exactly n/t |
Steely_Dan |
Aug-15-10 12:45 PM |
#59 |
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The job problem is related |
jeanpalmer |
Aug-15-10 05:05 AM |
#31 |
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Very true.. We need to stem the flow of Chinese Junk in this country... |
lib2DaBone |
Aug-15-10 06:37 PM |
#96 |
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So obvious.. |
sendero |
Aug-15-10 05:47 AM |
#32 |
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How do yo spell Corporatist? |
JJW |
Aug-15-10 07:35 AM |
#34 |
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+1 |
democracy1st |
Aug-15-10 08:47 AM |
#41 |
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recommend |
TexasObserver |
Aug-15-10 07:35 AM |
#35 |
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agreed K & R! |
Lost4words |
Aug-15-10 07:48 AM |
#36 |
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He didn't miss the opportunity, thats a total misconception |
BootinUp |
Aug-15-10 07:56 AM |
#38 |
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Oh gosh. A voice of reason. |
Diane R |
Aug-15-10 03:19 PM |
#76 |
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"The design of our government is such that it reacts too slow " |
bvar22 |
Aug-15-10 05:10 PM |
#87 |
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In these days of instant communication |
dotymed |
Aug-16-10 07:39 AM |
#131 |
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So basically what you are saying |
BootinUp |
Aug-16-10 11:36 AM |
#136 |
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So this form of government can't react effectively to crisis? We didn't see this kind of paralysis |
Better Believe It |
Aug-15-10 06:42 PM |
#98 |
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Maybe Obama should have stayed in the Senate |
BootinUp |
Aug-16-10 11:35 AM |
#135 |
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It's never been about "the people", it's always been about |
mother earth |
Aug-15-10 08:23 AM |
#39 |
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I would say its a democracy, just a poorly functioning one |
BootinUp |
Aug-15-10 08:44 AM |
#40 |
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What we don't have |
BootinUp |
Aug-16-10 11:41 AM |
#137 |
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K&R |
highplainsdem |
Aug-15-10 08:48 AM |
#42 |
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It's still not a priority. His big thing now is deficit reduction with is |
Raineyb |
Aug-15-10 08:56 AM |
#43 |
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Not true- he's provided MANY jobs in America |
Prisoner_Number_Six |
Aug-15-10 08:57 AM |
#44 |
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He listened too much to the DC eggheads at certain Centers. |
riskpeace |
Aug-15-10 09:46 AM |
#50 |
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House plan to create 6 million jobs to rebuild transportation infrastructure rejected by White House |
Better Believe It |
Aug-15-10 09:51 AM |
#51 |
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Only 101 billion of the 787 billion in stimulus money is for infrastructure! |
Better Believe It |
Aug-15-10 10:00 AM |
#52 |
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Deleted message |
Name removed |
Aug-15-10 10:29 AM |
#53 |
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11.5 million jobs |
ProSense |
Aug-15-10 10:31 AM |
#54 |
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What bi-partisan Republican/Democratic Senate group cut from the original stimulus bill |
Better Believe It |
Aug-15-10 11:32 AM |
#57 |
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How odd that Herbert has a blind eye when it comes to the Senate. |
Radical Activist |
Aug-15-10 03:41 PM |
#79 |
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The Senate passed exactly what President Obama wanted. So what's your point? |
Better Believe It |
Aug-15-10 06:33 PM |
#95 |
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Wow. A simple google search shows that isn't true. |
Radical Activist |
Aug-15-10 07:25 PM |
#104 |
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Really? Well, if it isn't true how about posting the text of President Obama's stimulus proposal? |
Better Believe It |
Aug-15-10 08:46 PM |
#114 |
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How cute. |
Radical Activist |
Aug-15-10 09:09 PM |
#117 |
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I want desperately, to believe that President Obama |
dotymed |
Aug-16-10 07:47 AM |
#132 |
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Well can you at least tell us what stimulus package President Obama proposed? |
Better Believe It |
Aug-16-10 12:04 PM |
#138 |
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Once again, Mr. Herbert is on the money |
Iwillnevergiveup |
Aug-15-10 12:59 PM |
#60 |
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WAR WAR WAR WAR is always the highest priority. nt |
valerief |
Aug-15-10 01:04 PM |
#61 |
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+ |
Bluebear |
Aug-15-10 03:18 PM |
#75 |
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Of course it is |
MissDeeds |
Aug-15-10 04:30 PM |
#85 |
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Two more years, then all will be better |
impik |
Aug-15-10 01:16 PM |
#62 |
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What does that mean? |
Quantess |
Aug-15-10 07:40 PM |
#108 |
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"nation's highest priority" is the first clue to just how stupid this is |
gulliver |
Aug-15-10 01:17 PM |
#63 |
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"The public was not poised to respond to bold leadership" Is that why people voted for Obama? |
Better Believe It |
Aug-15-10 01:25 PM |
#65 |
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They have had bold leadership... |
gulliver |
Aug-15-10 02:13 PM |
#68 |
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Yeah, really. Forget Wall St., the GOP, and the ConservaDems |
brentspeak |
Aug-15-10 02:47 PM |
#72 |
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So Herbert, who has "miniscule influence", manages to also be one of Obama's "biggest obstacles"? |
brentspeak |
Aug-15-10 02:41 PM |
#70 |
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"sideline conductors like Herbert" |
gulliver |
Aug-15-10 02:48 PM |
#73 |
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The fact that he has no concept of the urgency to take action on climate change |
Radical Activist |
Aug-15-10 03:39 PM |
#78 |
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I had a former boss who said "there's no such thing as priorites" |
lumberjack_jeff |
Aug-15-10 03:58 PM |
#82 |
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REC. nt. |
bertman |
Aug-15-10 02:44 PM |
#71 |
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How can someone so ignorant of the stimulus bill have a NYT column? |
Radical Activist |
Aug-15-10 03:36 PM |
#77 |
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Dumping money to keep big business afloat does not create jobs |
DatManFromNawlins |
Aug-15-10 03:43 PM |
#80 |
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Are you unaware |
Radical Activist |
Aug-15-10 03:49 PM |
#81 |
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The money that went to infrastructure like roads and high speed rail was peanuts! |
Better Believe It |
Aug-15-10 07:02 PM |
#103 |
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Yeah, fuck progress! And fuck any efforts to do anything good! |
Radical Activist |
Aug-15-10 07:37 PM |
#107 |
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Stop the personal attacks and accusing DU'ers of lying who you don't agree with. |
Better Believe It |
Aug-15-10 09:04 PM |
#115 |
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You post an article which accuses Obama of not focusing on jobs |
Radical Activist |
Aug-15-10 09:15 PM |
#118 |
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So are you retracting your false claim that I lied? |
Better Believe It |
Aug-15-10 10:19 PM |
#123 |
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Please stop the ridiculous personal attacks. It's explicitly against the rules, you know. |
inna |
Aug-16-10 12:13 AM |
#126 |
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So when did advocating a bigger and bolder jobs plan become a Republican talking point? |
Better Believe It |
Aug-15-10 06:58 PM |
#101 |
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I agree when Obama was talking jobs he found very few on the other side listening. |
Johonny |
Aug-15-10 09:43 PM |
#121 |
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What's a shame is that some posters can't tell a RW talking point from an obviously valid criticism |
inna |
Aug-16-10 12:21 AM |
#127 |
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Obama....... |
BlueJac |
Aug-15-10 04:19 PM |
#83 |
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Isn't Goldmann positioned to cash in on Cap & Trade ? |
stuart68 |
Aug-15-10 05:16 PM |
#89 |
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K & R n/t |
ihavenobias |
Aug-15-10 04:26 PM |
#84 |
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K&R |
Little Star |
Aug-15-10 05:25 PM |
#91 |
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Even more important than the columns are the comments |
Lydia Leftcoast |
Aug-15-10 05:27 PM |
#92 |
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This one gave me a lump |
fogonthelake |
Aug-15-10 08:31 PM |
#113 |
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I find the comments to be as valuable as the columns, sometimes more so |
Lydia Leftcoast |
Aug-15-10 09:22 PM |
#120 |
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Because we need less emphasis on the environment and on ending the wars? |
Orsino |
Aug-15-10 05:40 PM |
#93 |
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Several thousand unemployed union members in Los Angeles demonstrated for jobs on Friday |
Better Believe It |
Aug-15-10 09:18 PM |
#119 |
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About time. And you know what, more FTAs are not going to help either. |
inna |
Aug-16-10 12:24 AM |
#128 |
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But one aspect of the problem.. |
blindpig |
Aug-16-10 07:58 AM |
#133 |