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Reply #47: Thank you -- I'm especially interesting in the child rearing issue because [View All]

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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-08-10 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #5
47. Thank you -- I'm especially interesting in the child rearing issue because
I'm watching my four year old grand daughter grow up, and participate to some extent in her care.
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  -The Uses of and Difference Between Shame and Guilt Time for change  Aug-07-10 08:01 PM   #0 
  - Kick.  Kurovski   Aug-07-10 10:13 PM   #1 
  - Brilliant! Shame is a powerful emotion that I have grappled with personally.  live love laugh   Aug-07-10 10:28 PM   #2 
  - Thank you -- glad you were able to overcome it  Time for change   Aug-08-10 06:39 AM   #8 
  - ...  OneGrassRoot   Aug-08-10 06:50 AM   #10 
  - wow, i really love this essay.  nashville_brook   Aug-07-10 10:53 PM   #3 
  - Thank you -- As I read Rifkin's book it occurred to me that  Time for change   Aug-08-10 09:13 AM   #12 
     - "shaming" is a primary form of control. you create an outgroup, and then move inconvenient people to  nashville_brook   Aug-08-10 11:36 AM   #19 
        - Exactly -- The competition for ideas in our culture is not at all a meritocracy  Time for change   Aug-08-10 11:51 AM   #22 
        - perfectly spot on. you're so right -- it doesn't inhibit the idea outlaw -- it inhibits emerging  nashville_brook   Aug-08-10 11:59 AM   #23 
        - I believe that the university system really helps people remain  truedelphi   Aug-08-10 03:07 PM   #43 
        - This sounds right.  Jackpine Radical   Aug-08-10 01:21 PM   #35 
  - I think it's going to take more than just shame -  TBF   Aug-07-10 10:55 PM   #4 
  - Great read, especially as it relates to child rearing.  mia   Aug-08-10 12:31 AM   #5 
  - Thank you -- I'm especially interesting in the child rearing issue because  Time for change   Aug-08-10 04:45 PM   #47 
  - The Ownership Class respond to only one thing - fear of consequences  leftstreet   Aug-08-10 12:55 AM   #6 
  - Sociopaths are incapable of feeling shame or guilt.  AnArmyVeteran   Aug-08-10 02:25 PM   #40 
  - That is true  Time for change   Aug-08-10 03:32 PM   # 
  - Authoritarianism  noise   Aug-08-10 01:14 AM   #7 
  - Fascinating...  OneGrassRoot   Aug-08-10 06:49 AM   #9 
  - Thank you  Time for change   Aug-08-10 05:41 PM   #54 
  - excellent, excellent essay  northernlights   Aug-08-10 07:24 AM   #11 
  - I'm going to disagree  cornermouse   Aug-08-10 09:40 AM   #13 
  - It is absolutely true, as you say, that in order to feel shame you have to care what the  Time for change   Aug-08-10 09:59 AM   #14 
  - child shame is a great example b/c young children are predisposed to internalizing shame  nashville_brook   Aug-08-10 11:45 AM   #20 
  - I agree with cornermouse. Shame and guilt can be equally corrosive.  hunter   Aug-08-10 11:46 AM   #21 
  - Note that when I spoke in the OP of the potential constructive qualities of guilt I always  Time for change   Aug-08-10 12:19 PM   #25 
     - IMHO, guilt applies to acts, shame to more pervasive states.  Jackpine Radical   Aug-08-10 01:11 PM   #31 
        - Yes, "Guilt applies to acts, shame to more pervasive states"  Time for change   Aug-08-10 01:41 PM   #36 
           - My use of a Freudian construct, the superego, shouldn't be taken  Jackpine Radical   Aug-08-10 02:04 PM   #37 
              - I didn't think you were a Freudian  Time for change   Aug-08-10 02:47 PM   #42 
                 - As you suggested earlier, I think we're wading into  Jackpine Radical   Aug-08-10 03:32 PM   #44 
                    - Yes, that's very much what I was trying to say  Time for change   Aug-08-10 03:41 PM   #46 
                       - "No rational reason..."  Jackpine Radical   Aug-08-10 04:46 PM   #48 
                          - Another thing that occurred to me  Time for change   Aug-08-10 04:59 PM   #49 
                          - Another thing that occurred to me  Time for change   Aug-08-10 05:00 PM   #50 
                             - Punitive-minded parents also frequently overgeneralize:  Jackpine Radical   Aug-08-10 05:13 PM   #52 
  - It was explained to me this way.  EFerrari   Aug-08-10 12:39 PM   #28 
  - That is precisely the understanding of it that I have.  Jackpine Radical   Aug-08-10 01:12 PM   #32 
  - "is far less likely to inflict pain and harm"  Donnachaidh   Aug-08-10 06:04 PM   #57 
  - Very interesting as always. I have a couple of quibbles.  Jackpine Radical   Aug-08-10 11:02 AM   #15 
  - I'm not talking about using shame at the individual level  Time for change   Aug-08-10 11:19 AM   #17 
     - The answer likely lies in childrearing practices.  Jackpine Radical   Aug-08-10 11:30 AM   #18 
     - I agree  Time for change   Aug-08-10 12:10 PM   #24 
     - I'm happy to hear you're reading Psychologies of Liberation.  Jackpine Radical   Aug-08-10 01:03 PM   #30 
     - John Bradshaw wrote a LOT about this in the 80s.  Manifestor_of_Light   Aug-08-10 07:52 PM   #63 
        - thanks for bringing in Bradshaw. I was just about to mention him and his  nightrain   Aug-09-10 08:02 AM   #66 
     - Imho, the shame is already there but hasn't been called up.  EFerrari   Aug-08-10 12:44 PM   #29 
        - I'm not sure if you're misreading me  Time for change   Aug-08-10 05:52 PM   #55 
  - Cults build membership through shame and guilt.  Overseas   Aug-08-10 11:19 AM   #16 
  - Yes, that is exactly what cults do  Time for change   Aug-08-10 05:55 PM   #56 
     - American exceptionalism is cultist.  Overseas   Aug-08-10 06:30 PM   #58 
  - i took guilt too seriously, over too many things. as i got older, i learned to let go of guilt  seabeyond   Aug-08-10 12:29 PM   #26 
  - bkmrk'd  snagglepuss   Aug-08-10 12:34 PM   #27 
  - "No one can make you feel inferior  sulphurdunn   Aug-08-10 01:14 PM   #33 
  - so true. so true. nt  seabeyond   Aug-08-10 01:19 PM   #34 
  - That is not true. Children & vulnerable people can always be exploited.  AnArmyVeteran   Aug-08-10 02:23 PM   #39 
  - Great, insightful OP.  AnArmyVeteran   Aug-08-10 02:21 PM   #38 
  - I believe this is one of your best OPs.  Uncle Joe   Aug-08-10 02:40 PM   #41 
  - K & R nt  laughingliberal   Aug-08-10 03:37 PM   #45 
  - What an excellent OP  felix_numinous   Aug-08-10 05:05 PM   #51 
  - Thank you -- you bring up so many good points.  Time for change   Aug-08-10 07:02 PM   #59 
     - Fox TV comes to mind  felix_numinous   Aug-08-10 08:54 PM   #65 
  - "Man is the only animal that blushes...or needs to." Mark Twain  Tierra_y_Libertad   Aug-08-10 05:15 PM   #53 
  - Heart-touching and brilliant in logic OP  PufPuf23   Aug-08-10 07:09 PM   #60 
  - Thank you -- I loved "People of the Lie'  Time for change   Aug-08-10 08:52 PM   #64 
  - KandR.  Dystopian   Aug-08-10 07:36 PM   #61 
  - Thank you for this. nt  LWolf   Aug-08-10 07:47 PM   #62 
 

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