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Reply #16: Cults build membership through shame and guilt. [View All]

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Overseas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-08-10 11:19 AM
Response to Original message
16. Cults build membership through shame and guilt.
Edited on Sun Aug-08-10 11:19 AM by Overseas
"We are miserable sinners too but we found redemption in our fellowship by doing these simple things and sticking together. Make our group's mission the most important thing in your life and we will cheer and applaud for you. We have compassion for one another and cheer each others' successes in our group.

But if you dare step away you will be consumed with guilt and shame and destroy yourself. We have seen it happen. Hang tight with us. Other people just don't understand."

edited to add quotation marks.
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  -The Uses of and Difference Between Shame and Guilt Time for change  Aug-07-10 08:01 PM   #0 
  - Kick.  Kurovski   Aug-07-10 10:13 PM   #1 
  - Brilliant! Shame is a powerful emotion that I have grappled with personally.  live love laugh   Aug-07-10 10:28 PM   #2 
  - Thank you -- glad you were able to overcome it  Time for change   Aug-08-10 06:39 AM   #8 
  - ...  OneGrassRoot   Aug-08-10 06:50 AM   #10 
  - wow, i really love this essay.  nashville_brook   Aug-07-10 10:53 PM   #3 
  - Thank you -- As I read Rifkin's book it occurred to me that  Time for change   Aug-08-10 09:13 AM   #12 
     - "shaming" is a primary form of control. you create an outgroup, and then move inconvenient people to  nashville_brook   Aug-08-10 11:36 AM   #19 
        - Exactly -- The competition for ideas in our culture is not at all a meritocracy  Time for change   Aug-08-10 11:51 AM   #22 
        - perfectly spot on. you're so right -- it doesn't inhibit the idea outlaw -- it inhibits emerging  nashville_brook   Aug-08-10 11:59 AM   #23 
        - I believe that the university system really helps people remain  truedelphi   Aug-08-10 03:07 PM   #43 
        - This sounds right.  Jackpine Radical   Aug-08-10 01:21 PM   #35 
  - I think it's going to take more than just shame -  TBF   Aug-07-10 10:55 PM   #4 
  - Great read, especially as it relates to child rearing.  mia   Aug-08-10 12:31 AM   #5 
  - Thank you -- I'm especially interesting in the child rearing issue because  Time for change   Aug-08-10 04:45 PM   #47 
  - The Ownership Class respond to only one thing - fear of consequences  leftstreet   Aug-08-10 12:55 AM   #6 
  - Sociopaths are incapable of feeling shame or guilt.  AnArmyVeteran   Aug-08-10 02:25 PM   #40 
  - That is true  Time for change   Aug-08-10 03:32 PM   # 
  - Authoritarianism  noise   Aug-08-10 01:14 AM   #7 
  - Fascinating...  OneGrassRoot   Aug-08-10 06:49 AM   #9 
  - Thank you  Time for change   Aug-08-10 05:41 PM   #54 
  - excellent, excellent essay  northernlights   Aug-08-10 07:24 AM   #11 
  - I'm going to disagree  cornermouse   Aug-08-10 09:40 AM   #13 
  - It is absolutely true, as you say, that in order to feel shame you have to care what the  Time for change   Aug-08-10 09:59 AM   #14 
  - child shame is a great example b/c young children are predisposed to internalizing shame  nashville_brook   Aug-08-10 11:45 AM   #20 
  - I agree with cornermouse. Shame and guilt can be equally corrosive.  hunter   Aug-08-10 11:46 AM   #21 
  - Note that when I spoke in the OP of the potential constructive qualities of guilt I always  Time for change   Aug-08-10 12:19 PM   #25 
     - IMHO, guilt applies to acts, shame to more pervasive states.  Jackpine Radical   Aug-08-10 01:11 PM   #31 
        - Yes, "Guilt applies to acts, shame to more pervasive states"  Time for change   Aug-08-10 01:41 PM   #36 
           - My use of a Freudian construct, the superego, shouldn't be taken  Jackpine Radical   Aug-08-10 02:04 PM   #37 
              - I didn't think you were a Freudian  Time for change   Aug-08-10 02:47 PM   #42 
                 - As you suggested earlier, I think we're wading into  Jackpine Radical   Aug-08-10 03:32 PM   #44 
                    - Yes, that's very much what I was trying to say  Time for change   Aug-08-10 03:41 PM   #46 
                       - "No rational reason..."  Jackpine Radical   Aug-08-10 04:46 PM   #48 
                          - Another thing that occurred to me  Time for change   Aug-08-10 04:59 PM   #49 
                          - Another thing that occurred to me  Time for change   Aug-08-10 05:00 PM   #50 
                             - Punitive-minded parents also frequently overgeneralize:  Jackpine Radical   Aug-08-10 05:13 PM   #52 
  - It was explained to me this way.  EFerrari   Aug-08-10 12:39 PM   #28 
  - That is precisely the understanding of it that I have.  Jackpine Radical   Aug-08-10 01:12 PM   #32 
  - "is far less likely to inflict pain and harm"  Donnachaidh   Aug-08-10 06:04 PM   #57 
  - Very interesting as always. I have a couple of quibbles.  Jackpine Radical   Aug-08-10 11:02 AM   #15 
  - I'm not talking about using shame at the individual level  Time for change   Aug-08-10 11:19 AM   #17 
     - The answer likely lies in childrearing practices.  Jackpine Radical   Aug-08-10 11:30 AM   #18 
     - I agree  Time for change   Aug-08-10 12:10 PM   #24 
     - I'm happy to hear you're reading Psychologies of Liberation.  Jackpine Radical   Aug-08-10 01:03 PM   #30 
     - John Bradshaw wrote a LOT about this in the 80s.  Manifestor_of_Light   Aug-08-10 07:52 PM   #63 
        - thanks for bringing in Bradshaw. I was just about to mention him and his  nightrain   Aug-09-10 08:02 AM   #66 
     - Imho, the shame is already there but hasn't been called up.  EFerrari   Aug-08-10 12:44 PM   #29 
        - I'm not sure if you're misreading me  Time for change   Aug-08-10 05:52 PM   #55 
  - Cults build membership through shame and guilt.  Overseas   Aug-08-10 11:19 AM   #16 
  - Yes, that is exactly what cults do  Time for change   Aug-08-10 05:55 PM   #56 
     - American exceptionalism is cultist.  Overseas   Aug-08-10 06:30 PM   #58 
  - i took guilt too seriously, over too many things. as i got older, i learned to let go of guilt  seabeyond   Aug-08-10 12:29 PM   #26 
  - bkmrk'd  snagglepuss   Aug-08-10 12:34 PM   #27 
  - "No one can make you feel inferior  sulphurdunn   Aug-08-10 01:14 PM   #33 
  - so true. so true. nt  seabeyond   Aug-08-10 01:19 PM   #34 
  - That is not true. Children & vulnerable people can always be exploited.  AnArmyVeteran   Aug-08-10 02:23 PM   #39 
  - Great, insightful OP.  AnArmyVeteran   Aug-08-10 02:21 PM   #38 
  - I believe this is one of your best OPs.  Uncle Joe   Aug-08-10 02:40 PM   #41 
  - K & R nt  laughingliberal   Aug-08-10 03:37 PM   #45 
  - What an excellent OP  felix_numinous   Aug-08-10 05:05 PM   #51 
  - Thank you -- you bring up so many good points.  Time for change   Aug-08-10 07:02 PM   #59 
     - Fox TV comes to mind  felix_numinous   Aug-08-10 08:54 PM   #65 
  - "Man is the only animal that blushes...or needs to." Mark Twain  Tierra_y_Libertad   Aug-08-10 05:15 PM   #53 
  - Heart-touching and brilliant in logic OP  PufPuf23   Aug-08-10 07:09 PM   #60 
  - Thank you -- I loved "People of the Lie'  Time for change   Aug-08-10 08:52 PM   #64 
  - KandR.  Dystopian   Aug-08-10 07:36 PM   #61 
  - Thank you for this. nt  LWolf   Aug-08-10 07:47 PM   #62 
 

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