tomp
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Wed Aug-04-10 09:16 AM
Response to Original message |
| 103. pretty much hogwash. |
|
1) any suggestion that our government is not broken is laughable.
2) negativism is relative. for example, it is obvious that you are negativistic toward people who think that the u.s. government continues to represent a workable system. in the absence of any objective truth on the subject, you're as negative as anyone else. you dress up your language in "positive" clothes but your goal is to destroy your opposition.
3) destruction is not an inherently negative thing. witness nazi germany or feudalism or slavery, for example,
3) your post is a transparent propagation of the meme that opposition to our government is negative.
4) i'll see your henny penny with one pollyanna.
5) your post is full of baseless assertions, like "We have a viable system of govt......"
6) the first step in crippling our system is to not fix anything.
7) your "all is lost" type quotes with conflates opposition to government and general doom and gloom. though you apparently do not consider it, one may be completely pessimistic regarding our government while being completely hopeful for the future.
8) what is becoming unavoidably clear is that there is an organized group on du whose goal is to destroy left wing opposition to obama's rightism.
|
| -The First Step in Crippling Our System of Government Is To Convince |
MineralMan |
Aug-03-10 03:23 PM |
#0 |
-
Well, since all of us ARE the government, does it not follow that if the government is broken then |
arbusto_baboso |
Aug-03-10 03:24 PM |
#1 |
 -
But, you see, that posits that the government is broken. |
MineralMan |
Aug-03-10 03:27 PM |
#2 |
-
I didn't say it was broken. Messed-up certainly. But... I guess the point I was trying to make... |
arbusto_baboso |
Aug-03-10 03:30 PM |
#5 |
-
Ah, OK. I see. You may be right. I've certainly seen many people |
MineralMan |
Aug-03-10 03:33 PM |
#10 |
-
Learning that political activisim no longer works- |
asdjrocky |
Aug-03-10 03:30 PM |
#3 |
 -
What is the difference between political and direct activism? |
treestar |
Aug-03-10 03:32 PM |
#8 |
  -
I'll answer with Howard Zinn's speech from John Hopkin's U in 1970- |
asdjrocky |
Aug-03-10 03:42 PM |
# |
 -
As I have done so often, I give you Al Franken. |
MineralMan |
Aug-03-10 03:32 PM |
#9 |
-
I see your Al Franken and I raise you a Howard Zinn- |
asdjrocky |
Aug-03-10 03:37 PM |
#15 |
-
Howard Zinn is dead. He was an influential figure in |
MineralMan |
Aug-03-10 03:52 PM |
#21 |
-
You have no idea what you are talking about. |
asdjrocky |
Aug-03-10 03:58 PM |
#25 |
 -
Actually, it is you who have no idea who I am or what I know. |
MineralMan |
Aug-03-10 04:02 PM |
#30 |
-
Maybe not. |
asdjrocky |
Aug-03-10 04:08 PM |
#34 |
-
Not really. Again, you know nothing about me, and I'm not in the |
MineralMan |
Aug-03-10 04:11 PM |
#36 |
-
Oh, thank you so much for the premission to belive what I believe. |
asdjrocky |
Aug-03-10 04:12 PM |
#37 |
-
The point is that you need no permission from me or anyone else. |
MineralMan |
Aug-03-10 04:20 PM |
#38 |
-
nice trolling |
27inCali |
Aug-03-10 07:47 PM |
#55 |
-
So Martin Luther King did not bring change through civil disobedience? |
RainDog |
Aug-03-10 09:27 PM |
#56 |
 -
You said it right Rain Dog. |
asdjrocky |
Aug-04-10 01:05 PM |
#116 |
 -
Back then they actually covered marches on the news |
27inCali |
Aug-05-10 02:45 AM |
#129 |
-
So in your mind, it is far more successful to keep re-electing |
sabrina 1 |
Aug-03-10 11:06 PM |
#70 |
 -
I'm not against civil disobedience |
27inCali |
Aug-05-10 02:50 AM |
#130 |
-
Well, I agree with you regarding the Dems voting against their |
sabrina 1 |
Aug-05-10 12:08 PM |
#134 |
-
You've never read Zinn either, have you? n/t |
EFerrari |
Aug-04-10 07:38 AM |
#85 |
 -
No! do I have to? Is he the only source of wisdom? |
27inCali |
Aug-05-10 02:58 AM |
#131 |
-
pure projection on your part. |
inna |
Aug-04-10 10:38 AM |
#107 |
-
popularity should not be an argument for one's worth |
27inCali |
Aug-05-10 03:02 AM |
#132 |
-
That seems like an overly simplistic view. |
wickerwoman |
Aug-03-10 07:24 PM |
#53 |
-
I didn't say, or mean, that changing minds does nothing. In fact, |
MineralMan |
Aug-03-10 07:41 PM |
#54 |
-
What you fear is the Democratic Party's tone deafness |
RainDog |
Aug-03-10 09:39 PM |
#60 |
-
It's always a mistake to believe that |
MineralMan |
Aug-04-10 08:22 AM |
#87 |
-
according to the democratic party... |
tomp |
Aug-04-10 08:47 AM |
#97 |
 -
Where are you getting this information? |
janx |
Aug-04-10 01:16 PM |
#117 |
-
don't be ridiculous. |
tomp |
Aug-04-10 10:59 PM |
#127 |
-
Yes, it is a common error. |
RainDog |
Aug-04-10 04:05 PM |
#119 |
-
I'm beginning to wonder if there isn't an organized group whose goal is the destruction of our syste |
prolesunited |
Aug-03-10 03:30 PM |
#4 |
 -
Them too. I wonder if there aren't some in that group who are |
MineralMan |
Aug-03-10 03:34 PM |
#13 |
-
I have little doubt that your suspicions are correct. |
Jackpine Radical |
Aug-03-10 03:31 PM |
#6 |
-
I think so |
treestar |
Aug-03-10 03:31 PM |
#7 |
-
Of Course It's Organized, And It Is Meant To Destroy And Discourage |
Beetwasher |
Aug-03-10 03:33 PM |
#11 |
 -
But, are people so easily led capable of governing? |
MineralMan |
Aug-03-10 03:37 PM |
#16 |
-
No, But That's Not Their Purpose, Their Purpose Is To Disrupt |
Beetwasher |
Aug-03-10 03:43 PM |
#19 |
-
That could be right. All they need do is demoralize enough |
MineralMan |
Aug-03-10 04:08 PM |
#33 |
-
Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one. |
Tierra_y_Libertad |
Aug-03-10 03:33 PM |
#12 |
 -
Oh, I'm not talking about holding the government accountable. |
MineralMan |
Aug-03-10 03:36 PM |
#14 |
-
you mean the mere election of obama equals holding bush/cheney accountable? |
tomp |
Aug-04-10 08:51 AM |
#100 |
-
what's worse, negativism or the promise of change that fell flat? |
NightWatcher |
Aug-03-10 03:38 PM |
#17 |
 -
You honestly believe that there has been no change from Bush to Obama? |
Drunken Irishman |
Aug-03-10 03:46 PM |
#20 |
 -
Managing expectations is a big part of it... |
JuniperLea |
Aug-03-10 03:54 PM |
# |
 -
And yet, you are participating here. So, you have obviously not |
MineralMan |
Aug-03-10 03:54 PM |
#22 |
-
Negativism... |
JuniperLea |
Aug-03-10 03:42 PM |
#18 |
 -
I'm pretty sure those who may be spreading this negative FUD |
MineralMan |
Aug-03-10 03:58 PM |
#26 |
-
Hope this helps: |
snot |
Aug-03-10 03:55 PM |
#23 |
 -
I Cannot Recommend This Video Enough... |
Steely_Dan |
Aug-04-10 08:44 AM |
#94 |
-
There've been henny pennys since the primaries |
Cha |
Aug-03-10 03:55 PM |
#24 |
 -
Thank you. |
MineralMan |
Aug-03-10 04:00 PM |
#27 |
-
Great topic |
kctim |
Aug-03-10 04:00 PM |
#28 |
-
The Republicans are depressing me! |
gulliver |
Aug-03-10 04:01 PM |
#29 |
 -
Agreed. Which makes me wonder if the right is running this |
MineralMan |
Aug-03-10 04:04 PM |
#31 |
 -
But yet they DON'T even "govern" |
Proud Liberal Dem |
Aug-04-10 04:15 PM |
#120 |
-
Negatives unite |
grantcart |
Aug-03-10 04:07 PM |
#32 |
 -
I'm not really talking about the Tea Party morons in this thread. |
MineralMan |
Aug-03-10 04:10 PM |
#35 |
-
The same principles apply. |
grantcart |
Aug-03-10 04:28 PM |
#40 |
-
It seems to me that it's difficult to make positive changes if |
MineralMan |
Aug-03-10 06:54 PM |
#49 |
-
Isn't this kind of thing against the new rules? Group slurs? |
EFerrari |
Aug-04-10 07:03 AM |
#78 |
-
Why do you assume I'm talking about Democrats in general or |
MineralMan |
Aug-04-10 08:29 AM |
#88 |
-
No, I'm not. And I was responding to grantcart. nt |
EFerrari |
Aug-04-10 12:36 PM |
#112 |
-
It is a clear statement of fact |
grantcart |
Aug-04-10 12:53 PM |
#114 |
-
Great post MineralMan. |
Scurrilous |
Aug-03-10 04:26 PM |
#39 |
 -
Well, I don't know about that, but it's something I've been thinking |
MineralMan |
Aug-03-10 06:52 PM |
#48 |
-
I don't see organized negativism. What I do see are a lot of people |
Joe Fields |
Aug-03-10 04:50 PM |
#41 |
-
Our "system of government" is a play put on by the Corporate Elite to give the illusion of Democracy |
Odin2005 |
Aug-03-10 04:58 PM |
#42 |
 -
Well, here's a clue. Capitalism isn't going away. There's nothing |
MineralMan |
Aug-03-10 06:47 PM |
#45 |
  -
My problem is that both of you are arguing myth not reality |
nadinbrzezinski |
Aug-03-10 09:57 PM |
#64 |
  -
Capitalism is built upon the notion of free markets. In the US, monopolies dominate many markets. |
Selatius |
Aug-04-10 07:05 AM |
#79 |
 -
Then, it is not capitalism to which you object, but monopolies? |
MineralMan |
Aug-04-10 08:32 AM |
#90 |
 -
Odin, I just have to say this... You went through so much growth in the last few years, judging by. |
inna |
Aug-04-10 10:46 AM |
#108 |
-
As a matter of hact I have, just got his new book last weekend. |
Odin2005 |
Aug-04-10 04:38 PM |
#121 |
-
One of the key liberal values is that the government is an institution |
NJmaverick |
Aug-03-10 05:04 PM |
#43 |
 -
Very true. And Democrats are the most likely party to do those |
MineralMan |
Aug-03-10 06:50 PM |
#46 |
-
A valid point MM, well worth considering |
JNelson6563 |
Aug-03-10 06:19 PM |
#44 |
 -
You have a point there, truly. |
MineralMan |
Aug-03-10 06:50 PM |
#47 |
-
Such organized group is called the GOP |
uponit7771 |
Aug-03-10 06:55 PM |
#50 |
-
Yes, I've noticed. And the worst thing is that it oftentimes a self-fulfilling prophecy. nt |
quiet.american |
Aug-03-10 07:19 PM |
#51 |
 -
Exactly. |
MineralMan |
Aug-03-10 07:21 PM |
#52 |
-
Cynics hate progress. It undermines their core philosophy. So they have a lot invested |
KittyWampus |
Aug-03-10 09:35 PM |
#57 |
 -
You see that everyday with DU's cynics that won't acknowledge the incredible changes already made |
scheming daemons |
Aug-03-10 09:36 PM |
#58 |
  -
which is why I spend so little time here anymore. |
KittyWampus |
Aug-03-10 09:38 PM |
#59 |
 -
Cynics hate |
ProSense |
Aug-03-10 10:15 PM |
#67 |
 -
You're absolutely right. |
Number23 |
Aug-04-10 05:34 PM |
#123 |
-
Reagan's contention: Government can't do anything right. |
laughingliberal |
Aug-03-10 09:42 PM |
#61 |
-
kick |
azmouse |
Aug-03-10 09:54 PM |
#62 |
-
K/R! |
Born_A_Truman |
Aug-03-10 09:54 PM |
#63 |
-
We go through these every so often |
nadinbrzezinski |
Aug-03-10 10:00 PM |
#65 |
 -
Well said! eom |
laughingliberal |
Aug-03-10 11:22 PM |
#72 |
-
This thread belongs in the dungeon. |
Bonobo |
Aug-03-10 10:02 PM |
#66 |
 -
I think he just means, this would be a great board if it weren't for all goddam |
EFerrari |
Aug-04-10 06:36 AM |
#74 |
  -
Thanks for the translation. |
Bonobo |
Aug-04-10 06:50 AM |
#75 |
 -
I just watched "Orwell Rolls In His Grave" again. |
EFerrari |
Aug-04-10 06:54 AM |
#76 |
 -
I agree, conspiracy theories are not supposed to be allowed in GD.. |
Fumesucker |
Aug-04-10 07:01 AM |
#77 |
-
You should listen to pragmatic woodchucks more pal. |
Bonobo |
Aug-04-10 07:08 AM |
#80 |
-
People who live on the beach learn not to stand under the coconut palm.. |
Fumesucker |
Aug-04-10 07:13 AM |
#81 |
-
Simply untrue. |
Bonobo |
Aug-04-10 07:17 AM |
#82 |
-
LOL.. I rest my case.. |
Fumesucker |
Aug-04-10 07:21 AM |
#83 |
-
Our government IS worthless and unable to fix anything.. |
JackDragna |
Aug-03-10 10:18 PM |
#68 |
 -
If that is the case, then it stands to reason that election activism |
MineralMan |
Aug-04-10 08:40 AM |
#92 |
-
Obama is the ultimate embodiment of cynical politics. |
girl gone mad |
Aug-03-10 10:51 PM |
#69 |
-
Capitalism must die |
IndianaGreen |
Aug-03-10 11:08 PM |
#71 |
 -
Interesting. What mechanism do you envision that will cause |
MineralMan |
Aug-04-10 08:42 AM |
#93 |
-
The guillotine! |
IndianaGreen |
Aug-04-10 04:00 PM |
#118 |
-
It seems the left has adopted the tactics used by the right... All negativism.. |
Kahuna |
Aug-04-10 06:27 AM |
#73 |
 -
I suggest that we need not accept negativism, but can |
MineralMan |
Aug-04-10 08:46 AM |
#96 |
-
Its a GOP strategy developed by Grover Norquist ... |
JoePhilly |
Aug-04-10 07:25 AM |
#84 |
-
Good post... |
SidDithers |
Aug-04-10 07:38 AM |
#86 |
 -
Yep, here in the bubble where people are actually paying attention to the destruction of our nation. |
Fumesucker |
Aug-04-10 08:29 AM |
#89 |
  -
What you say is true. Most people are not as fascinated by |
MineralMan |
Aug-04-10 11:01 AM |
#111 |
 -
I'm not sure about that. I'm seeing it even in the voices of pundits, |
MineralMan |
Aug-04-10 08:49 AM |
#98 |
-
Pundits-- |
janx |
Aug-04-10 10:48 AM |
#109 |
-
Our gov't oversees the transfer of wealth from working people to big corps with great efficiency. |
Romulox |
Aug-04-10 08:36 AM |
#91 |
-
That's been the repub mantra for years |
Brewman_Jax |
Aug-04-10 08:45 AM |
#95 |
 -
That is true. Which is one of the factors that raises the very |
MineralMan |
Aug-04-10 08:50 AM |
#99 |
 -
Yep. Keep in mind that george w. bush did exactly what he said he would do.. |
Kahuna |
Aug-04-10 08:54 AM |
#101 |
-
Unrealistic Expectations? |
Steely_Dan |
Aug-04-10 09:04 AM |
#102 |
-
pretty much hogwash. |
tomp |
Aug-04-10 09:16 AM |
#103 |
 -
And that is the way to present a civil, but strong, argument. Well done. |
ThomWV |
Aug-04-10 09:28 AM |
#104 |
 -
OK. What I posted is my opinion and a question. |
MineralMan |
Aug-04-10 10:28 AM |
#105 |
  -
on my way out. will respond later. nt |
tomp |
Aug-04-10 10:33 AM |
#106 |
  -
If it works only to funnel wealth to the rich, spy on it's citizens, waging unending war against |
TheKentuckian |
Aug-04-10 12:38 PM |
#113 |
  -
ok, a quick response. |
tomp |
Aug-04-10 11:31 PM |
#128 |
 -
+1. well done. |
inna |
Aug-04-10 10:48 AM |
#110 |
 -
well-said. |
nightrain |
Aug-04-10 01:00 PM |
#115 |
-
Kick. Worth discussing. nt |
Hekate |
Aug-04-10 05:32 PM |
#122 |
 -
I don't know, Hekate. Seems like all this thread has proved is that there are too many people on DU |
Number23 |
Aug-04-10 05:38 PM |
#124 |
-
heehee. Well, there is that. You definitely have a point. |
Hekate |
Aug-04-10 05:54 PM |
#125 |
-
Yep... |
JuniperLea |
Aug-04-10 07:16 PM |
#126 |
-
That's exactly right. Cynicism about government is cynically manipulated. |
Unvanguard |
Aug-05-10 03:07 AM |
#133 |