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Reply #104: I was asking Chan - I understood where you were coming from! [View All]

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noamnety Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-01-10 11:17 PM
Response to Reply #101
104. I was asking Chan - I understood where you were coming from!
I was responding to Chan, because he opted out of the public school system and was in a position to be able to afford it, and he was saying that he supports alternative education for other students who can afford it privately.

I don't know where he thinks that leaves poor students who can't afford any alternatives, and whether he thinks that's equitable.
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  -Folks, please stop confusing charter schools with private schools. johnaries  Aug-01-10 06:33 PM   #0 
  - Nuance? Factually correct?  prolesunited   Aug-01-10 06:38 PM   #1 
  - like that little list of definitions has anything to do with reality.  Hannah Bell   Aug-01-10 06:44 PM   #2 
     - How do they "funnel public money into private hands"?  johnaries   Aug-01-10 06:50 PM   #4 
        - oh, please. buy a clue or two.  Hannah Bell   Aug-01-10 06:54 PM   #7 
        - "Buy a clue"?  johnaries   Aug-01-10 07:17 PM   #14 
           - again, what *is* "the charter school"? the management corp owns the real estate,  Hannah Bell   Aug-01-10 07:27 PM   #25 
              - Did you not read anything I posted? You should educate yourself  johnaries   Aug-01-10 07:36 PM   #37 
              - you have no facts, just a little list of definitions: "charter schools are public schools!"  Hannah Bell   Aug-01-10 07:37 PM   #38 
                 - As I said before, just Google any state name + charter school.  johnaries   Aug-01-10 07:44 PM   #42 
                    - lol. ten years to shut down ONE school in just THAT particular corrupt, fraudulent chain.  Hannah Bell   Aug-01-10 09:14 PM   #73 
              - Many are not run by a for-profit management company - but a small nonprofit  salin   Aug-01-10 09:20 PM   #76 
              - define "many".  Hannah Bell   Aug-01-10 09:58 PM   #83 
                 - Try reading post #51 by prolesunited  johnaries   Aug-01-10 10:42 PM   #94 
                    - try reading my response to proles united. a quick google shows the claim is false.  Hannah Bell   Aug-02-10 01:38 AM   #117 
              - Hannah is right -  TBF   Aug-02-10 08:38 PM   #141 
        - They have a "charter" from the state, or school system, or however  jtuck004   Aug-01-10 07:02 PM   #12 
           - Yes, the regulations, goals, and accountability are laid out in the  johnaries   Aug-01-10 07:22 PM   #19 
              - they *aren't* "closed quickly." that's a crock.  Hannah Bell   Aug-01-10 07:35 PM   #35 
                 - Can you support that statement? According to every State  johnaries   Aug-01-10 07:39 PM   #39 
                    - "every state website" -- well, there's an objective source.  Hannah Bell   Aug-01-10 08:01 PM   #52 
                       - One example. That's all you could find?  johnaries   Aug-01-10 09:04 PM   #70 
                          - lol.  Hannah Bell   Aug-01-10 09:18 PM   #74 
                             - How about an actual National report from 2006?  johnaries   Aug-01-10 09:31 PM   #78 
                                - what is the "center for educational reform"?  Hannah Bell   Aug-01-10 09:44 PM   #82 
  - Here in MN at least some of the charter schools are for Native  jwirr   Aug-01-10 06:47 PM   #3 
  - No, no one is trying to privatize them. People are claiming that  johnaries   Aug-01-10 06:52 PM   #5 
  - it's no misconception. but you just keep "trying"  Hannah Bell   Aug-01-10 06:54 PM   #8 
  - I've already proven it is. nt  johnaries   Aug-01-10 07:20 PM   #17 
     - Could you post that again, please? n/t  YvonneCa   Aug-01-10 07:31 PM   #30 
     - Please read the OP.  johnaries   Aug-01-10 07:41 PM   #41 
        - it's a list of definitions. could you please paste the part which "proves" anything at all?  Hannah Bell   Aug-01-10 08:03 PM   #54 
     - with your litlle list of definitions? sure you have.  Hannah Bell   Aug-01-10 07:36 PM   #36 
        - See post #42.  johnaries   Aug-01-10 07:44 PM   #44 
           - post 42?  Hannah Bell   Aug-01-10 10:06 PM   #85 
  - They get public money but don't answer to the public.  madfloridian   Aug-01-10 06:59 PM   #10 
  - Yes, they are accountable to the public through their charter.  johnaries   Aug-01-10 07:19 PM   #16 
  - I am targeting schools that get public money but are not regulated.  madfloridian   Aug-01-10 07:26 PM   #23 
  - Their charter has to be approved by the state. This should  johnaries   Aug-01-10 07:33 PM   # 
     - Not always true.  madfloridian   Aug-01-10 10:00 PM   #84 
     - baloney. you don't even know basic facts. states aren't the only entities which can issue charters  Hannah Bell   Aug-01-10 10:29 PM   #92 
  - I'm targeting everything that has been diverting funding from our public school system...  laughingliberal   Aug-01-10 07:29 PM   #27 
  - The vast majority do not "pick and choose", they are either  johnaries   Aug-01-10 07:34 PM   #34 
     - They are not, as are the public schools, required to take any and all. Most will plead...  laughingliberal   Aug-01-10 07:44 PM   #43 
     - Please read  johnaries   Aug-01-10 07:56 PM   #50 
        - I've seen cases where the charter admitted a disabled student and the district had to pay for  laughingliberal   Aug-01-10 08:02 PM   #53 
        - The district would have had to pay for it, regardless.  johnaries   Aug-01-10 08:49 PM   #64 
           - you don't get it. and yes, your objectivity shines in your posts here.  Hannah Bell   Aug-02-10 01:43 AM   #121 
        - they may be open enrollment  dsc   Aug-01-10 08:18 PM   #56 
     - And they send the low-performing back to the public schools.  madfloridian   Aug-01-10 07:45 PM   #45 
     - bullshit. if they don't want disabled kids, they JUST DON'T PROVIDE DISABLED SERVICES.  Hannah Bell   Aug-01-10 10:17 PM   #88 
  - no they're not. charters draw tax revenue from an entire district but they have no  Hannah Bell   Aug-01-10 10:13 PM   #87 
     - Did you read the report I linked to? Simply yelling something  johnaries   Aug-01-10 10:51 PM   #98 
        - neither does propaganda funded by the john birch right.  Hannah Bell   Aug-02-10 01:44 AM   #122 
  - Your blanket statement is false.  noamnety   Aug-01-10 08:55 PM   #68 
  - it goes further. Obama is pocketing cash from his corporate friends  Whisp   Aug-01-10 11:41 PM   #106 
  - One of the Native American Charter Schools, Heart of the Earth,  dflprincess   Aug-01-10 08:51 PM   #65 
  - Charter schools are allowed to exist outside the school board  Curmudgeoness   Aug-01-10 06:53 PM   #6 
  - I would be glad to see classrooms with more freedom but if you look  jwirr   Aug-01-10 06:57 PM   #9 
  - Charters do free schools from regulations  sandnsea   Aug-01-10 07:22 PM   #20 
     - All schools could do better if they could cherry pick their students.  laughingliberal   Aug-01-10 07:32 PM   #31 
     - This is exactly what I was saying. Make public schools less  Curmudgeoness   Aug-01-10 07:34 PM   #33 
        - That's what charters do  sandnsea   Aug-01-10 09:36 PM   #80 
           - EXACTLY! Thank you! Find out what works for the STUDENTS.  johnaries   Aug-01-10 11:08 PM   #103 
           - lol. 5 national studies show charters have no advantages over traditional public schools.  Hannah Bell   Aug-02-10 01:45 AM   #123 
  - The problem isn't charter schools in an of themselves, it's one promoted by...  Odin2005   Aug-01-10 07:01 PM   #11 
  - And the greatest confusion of all...  Orsino   Aug-01-10 07:06 PM   #13 
  - This is simply right wing propganda to me  Scruffy1   Aug-01-10 07:18 PM   #15 
  - RW propaganda isn't backed up with facts.  johnaries   Aug-01-10 07:26 PM   #24 
     - The "right wing propaganda" is all the cheery stories about how great charters are.  Hannah Bell   Aug-01-10 10:24 PM   #90 
  - It's very, very simple  MadHound   Aug-01-10 07:22 PM   #18 
  - Actually, it is owned by the local government. And if they fail,  johnaries   Aug-01-10 07:29 PM   #26 
  - A charter school is NOT owned by the local government  MadHound   Aug-01-10 07:33 PM   #32 
  - Please read my links upthread. They are NOT privately owned.  johnaries   Aug-01-10 07:47 PM   #47 
     - I don't have to read your links, I've read actual charters for charter schools  MadHound   Aug-01-10 07:54 PM   #49 
        - Well if you want to get personal I can share my experience.  johnaries   Aug-01-10 08:21 PM   #57 
  - They are most certainly not.  rucky   Aug-01-10 10:54 PM   #99 
  - How about reading this  prolesunited   Aug-01-10 08:00 PM   #51 
     - Thank you.  johnaries   Aug-01-10 08:30 PM   #58 
     - There also *IS* a difference between charters and the public school system & they divert funds. nt  laughingliberal   Aug-01-10 08:36 PM   #60 
     - Al shanker was a corporate stooge. he played the ralph nader role in the ed union divide & rule  Hannah Bell   Aug-01-10 10:32 PM   #93 
     - Oh, my dear, you've got me. The dreaded wiki copy and paste. The horror.  MadHound   Aug-01-10 11:33 PM   #105 
     - no tuition, no religious affilation nor selective admission.  Whisp   Aug-01-10 11:48 PM   #108 
     - charging tuition is not the issue: it's giving private companies tax money to educate our kids  yurbud   Aug-02-10 12:15 AM   #112 
     - ONLY "WI, CA, MI, and AZ allow for-profit corporations to manage charter schools" = false  Hannah Bell   Aug-02-10 01:36 AM   #116 
     - Where are you getting the "only" from?  fishwax   Aug-02-10 01:40 AM   #118 
     - thank you. for-profits are in way more than the four states listed.  Hannah Bell   Aug-02-10 01:46 AM   #124 
     - So are your fingers in your ears or are you willfully ignoring the facts about Shanker?  proud2BlibKansan   Aug-04-10 10:33 AM   #145 
  - The very nature and cause of the opposition is in your OP.  Chan790   Aug-01-10 07:24 PM   #21 
  - Your very first sentence is completely erroneous.  johnaries   Aug-01-10 07:31 PM   #29 
  - And as several people pointed out, you're wrong.  Chan790   Aug-01-10 07:49 PM   #48 
     - So, your extensive experience in one city allows you to broad-  johnaries   Aug-01-10 08:38 PM   #61 
  - From your own background and where you donate  noamnety   Aug-01-10 09:25 PM   #77 
     - I'm sorry if I gave the wrong impression.  johnaries   Aug-01-10 11:04 PM   #101 
     - I was asking Chan - I understood where you were coming from!  noamnety   Aug-01-10 11:17 PM   #104 
     - Interesting...  Chan790   Aug-02-10 12:11 AM   #111 
     - I think I wasn't really clear b/c I was trying to not write a 15pg. essay on my ideal edu. model.  Chan790   Aug-02-10 12:01 AM   #110 
  - Nice try at muddying the issue, but we're too smart here...  joeybee12   Aug-01-10 07:24 PM   #22 
  - Are you accusing me of something?  johnaries   Aug-01-10 07:40 PM   #40 
     - Most of us are pretty clear that 30 years of underfunding hurt the public school system  laughingliberal   Aug-01-10 08:39 PM   #62 
        - I'll agree about the underfunding. But charter schools ARE  johnaries   Aug-01-10 08:54 PM   #67 
           - Restore the funding to the public school system and quit pursuing Reagan/Gingrich style schemes  laughingliberal   Aug-01-10 09:00 PM   #69 
  - The problem is not the way they are defined. The problem is...  YvonneCa   Aug-01-10 07:30 PM   #28 
  - Thanks for enlightening us all.  asdjrocky   Aug-01-10 07:45 PM   #46 
  - I'm not the least bit confused, I don't need any patronizing "explanations"  LWolf   Aug-01-10 08:04 PM   #55 
  - You are twisting my words. I am AGAINST privatization and  johnaries   Aug-01-10 08:44 PM   #63 
  - We should be opposing anything other than restoring full and adequate funding to our...  laughingliberal   Aug-01-10 09:05 PM   #71 
  - Charter schools help ALL public schools by....  LWolf   Aug-02-10 09:19 AM   #128 
  - 'union busting',,,yep, that is the big key  DebJ   Aug-01-10 10:19 PM   #89 
  - I am an old guy. Charter schools remind me of things like the Arizona  rurallib   Aug-01-10 08:33 PM   #59 
  - Yes. Reading between the lines seems to be a lost art among large segments of the population...  laughingliberal   Aug-01-10 09:33 PM   #79 
  - Different techniques ARE implemented in individual public schools every year.  MichiganVote   Aug-01-10 08:52 PM   #66 
  - nice try....but must people don`t buy it.  madrchsod   Aug-01-10 09:09 PM   #72 
  - If you tell a lie enough times, "most people" will believe it.  johnaries   Aug-01-10 10:47 PM   #96 
  - Nope. Not confused. But thanks.  Pithlet   Aug-01-10 09:19 PM   #75 
  - Nice try  nadinbrzezinski   Aug-01-10 09:43 PM   #81 
  - "independent of school board"?? not in York Pa, where  DebJ   Aug-01-10 10:11 PM   #86 
  - Unrec  Stinky The Clown   Aug-01-10 10:24 PM   #91 
  - I work in both types of schools.  The Midway Rebel   Aug-01-10 10:45 PM   #95 
  - Last spring, I taught in a charter and a private school (half day each).  knitter4democracy   Aug-01-10 10:59 PM   #100 
  - 4th-5th grade classroom: 10 out of 25 on IEP's. Last year.  Greyskye   Aug-02-10 10:01 AM   #130 
  - Q: can charter schools be run by for profit companies? A: yes they can. Your post is dishonest  yurbud   Aug-01-10 10:49 PM   #97 
  - Only in 4 states. See post #51.  johnaries   Aug-01-10 11:06 PM   #102 
     - nominal non-profits can still turn a profit with real estate scams like this:  yurbud   Aug-02-10 12:22 AM   #113 
     - why else would LA real estate mogul Eli Broad take such an interest in it?  yurbud   Aug-02-10 12:27 AM   #114 
     - then how does National Heritage Academies operate schools in eight states?  fishwax   Aug-02-10 01:42 AM   #120 
     - Stop lying, stop using Wiki for a source, and stop spreading false bullshit  MadHound   Aug-02-10 10:02 AM   #131 
  - Thankfully no one's buying what you're trying to sell.  ibegurpard   Aug-01-10 11:48 PM   #107 
  - Your position does not reflect the current realities  ProgressiveProfessor   Aug-01-10 11:54 PM   #109 
  - we should thank the OP for reminding us of the achilles heel of these education ''reformers''  yurbud   Aug-02-10 01:42 AM   #119 
     - To kill them all is unwarranted and counter productive  ProgressiveProfessor   Aug-02-10 02:06 AM   #126 
        - I agree. Unfortunately, the scammers have the bucks to drive reform and will craft it  yurbud   Aug-02-10 03:18 AM   #127 
  - Okay, so they're a third thing promoted by right wing private school advocates to drain funds...  ClassWarrior   Aug-02-10 12:37 AM   #115 
  - No answer??  ClassWarrior   Aug-02-10 10:33 AM   #135 
  - Kick - The Merits of Charter Schools Should Be Discussed Without The Misinformation...  TomCADem   Aug-02-10 02:02 AM   #125 
  - What are the merits of charter schools?  MadHound   Aug-02-10 10:07 AM   #132 
     - yes - magnet schools acheive all the touted positve results  Warren Stupidity   Aug-02-10 10:25 AM   #134 
        - Sure they will,  MadHound   Aug-02-10 10:37 AM   #136 
  - No. They are a shell game to defund public education.  Warren Stupidity   Aug-02-10 09:56 AM   #129 
  - Charter Schools  LeFleur1   Aug-02-10 10:16 AM   #133 
  - Want to fix the Public School System?  bvar22   Aug-02-10 05:58 PM   #137 
  - But what if your public school IS a charter school?  Phentex   Aug-02-10 08:18 PM   #139 
  - the public didn't buy the diversion to private pockets with vouchers, so they had to get sneakier  yurbud   Aug-03-10 10:14 AM   #142 
  - Charter school:  mmonk   Aug-02-10 06:08 PM   #138 
  - Oh Boy!  bvar22   Aug-03-10 12:01 PM   #143 
     - Yep.  mmonk   Aug-04-10 10:20 AM   #144 
  - lol  fascisthunter   Aug-02-10 08:23 PM   #140 
 

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