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Reply #55: I'm not the least bit confused, I don't need any patronizing "explanations" [View All]

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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-01-10 08:04 PM
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55. I'm not the least bit confused, I don't need any patronizing "explanations"
Edited on Sun Aug-01-10 08:06 PM by LWolf
of something I've been well-informed about since the charter school movement began, and your belief in privatization and union busting as "the next wave" that can be "applied to more schools" sickens me.

Charter schools are public schools in the same way that The Healthy Forest Restoration Act is about healthy forests, or NCLB was about actually improving public education.

They get to use the word "public" because it's in the laws allowing them to be formed.

That means that privately run entities get to use public money, and call themselves public, while bypassing most of the public oversight that schools actually within the public education system are protected with.

That is a corrupt use of the label "public," and a highly inappropriate use of public funds.

It's also a tool in the efforts to further degrade REAL public schools and teachers, to privatize and union bust.

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  -Folks, please stop confusing charter schools with private schools. johnaries  Aug-01-10 06:33 PM   #0 
  - Nuance? Factually correct?  prolesunited   Aug-01-10 06:38 PM   #1 
  - like that little list of definitions has anything to do with reality.  Hannah Bell   Aug-01-10 06:44 PM   #2 
     - How do they "funnel public money into private hands"?  johnaries   Aug-01-10 06:50 PM   #4 
        - oh, please. buy a clue or two.  Hannah Bell   Aug-01-10 06:54 PM   #7 
        - "Buy a clue"?  johnaries   Aug-01-10 07:17 PM   #14 
           - again, what *is* "the charter school"? the management corp owns the real estate,  Hannah Bell   Aug-01-10 07:27 PM   #25 
              - Did you not read anything I posted? You should educate yourself  johnaries   Aug-01-10 07:36 PM   #37 
              - you have no facts, just a little list of definitions: "charter schools are public schools!"  Hannah Bell   Aug-01-10 07:37 PM   #38 
                 - As I said before, just Google any state name + charter school.  johnaries   Aug-01-10 07:44 PM   #42 
                    - lol. ten years to shut down ONE school in just THAT particular corrupt, fraudulent chain.  Hannah Bell   Aug-01-10 09:14 PM   #73 
              - Many are not run by a for-profit management company - but a small nonprofit  salin   Aug-01-10 09:20 PM   #76 
              - define "many".  Hannah Bell   Aug-01-10 09:58 PM   #83 
                 - Try reading post #51 by prolesunited  johnaries   Aug-01-10 10:42 PM   #94 
                    - try reading my response to proles united. a quick google shows the claim is false.  Hannah Bell   Aug-02-10 01:38 AM   #117 
              - Hannah is right -  TBF   Aug-02-10 08:38 PM   #141 
        - They have a "charter" from the state, or school system, or however  jtuck004   Aug-01-10 07:02 PM   #12 
           - Yes, the regulations, goals, and accountability are laid out in the  johnaries   Aug-01-10 07:22 PM   #19 
              - they *aren't* "closed quickly." that's a crock.  Hannah Bell   Aug-01-10 07:35 PM   #35 
                 - Can you support that statement? According to every State  johnaries   Aug-01-10 07:39 PM   #39 
                    - "every state website" -- well, there's an objective source.  Hannah Bell   Aug-01-10 08:01 PM   #52 
                       - One example. That's all you could find?  johnaries   Aug-01-10 09:04 PM   #70 
                          - lol.  Hannah Bell   Aug-01-10 09:18 PM   #74 
                             - How about an actual National report from 2006?  johnaries   Aug-01-10 09:31 PM   #78 
                                - what is the "center for educational reform"?  Hannah Bell   Aug-01-10 09:44 PM   #82 
  - Here in MN at least some of the charter schools are for Native  jwirr   Aug-01-10 06:47 PM   #3 
  - No, no one is trying to privatize them. People are claiming that  johnaries   Aug-01-10 06:52 PM   #5 
  - it's no misconception. but you just keep "trying"  Hannah Bell   Aug-01-10 06:54 PM   #8 
  - I've already proven it is. nt  johnaries   Aug-01-10 07:20 PM   #17 
     - Could you post that again, please? n/t  YvonneCa   Aug-01-10 07:31 PM   #30 
     - Please read the OP.  johnaries   Aug-01-10 07:41 PM   #41 
        - it's a list of definitions. could you please paste the part which "proves" anything at all?  Hannah Bell   Aug-01-10 08:03 PM   #54 
     - with your litlle list of definitions? sure you have.  Hannah Bell   Aug-01-10 07:36 PM   #36 
        - See post #42.  johnaries   Aug-01-10 07:44 PM   #44 
           - post 42?  Hannah Bell   Aug-01-10 10:06 PM   #85 
  - They get public money but don't answer to the public.  madfloridian   Aug-01-10 06:59 PM   #10 
  - Yes, they are accountable to the public through their charter.  johnaries   Aug-01-10 07:19 PM   #16 
  - I am targeting schools that get public money but are not regulated.  madfloridian   Aug-01-10 07:26 PM   #23 
  - Their charter has to be approved by the state. This should  johnaries   Aug-01-10 07:33 PM   # 
     - Not always true.  madfloridian   Aug-01-10 10:00 PM   #84 
     - baloney. you don't even know basic facts. states aren't the only entities which can issue charters  Hannah Bell   Aug-01-10 10:29 PM   #92 
  - I'm targeting everything that has been diverting funding from our public school system...  laughingliberal   Aug-01-10 07:29 PM   #27 
  - The vast majority do not "pick and choose", they are either  johnaries   Aug-01-10 07:34 PM   #34 
     - They are not, as are the public schools, required to take any and all. Most will plead...  laughingliberal   Aug-01-10 07:44 PM   #43 
     - Please read  johnaries   Aug-01-10 07:56 PM   #50 
        - I've seen cases where the charter admitted a disabled student and the district had to pay for  laughingliberal   Aug-01-10 08:02 PM   #53 
        - The district would have had to pay for it, regardless.  johnaries   Aug-01-10 08:49 PM   #64 
           - you don't get it. and yes, your objectivity shines in your posts here.  Hannah Bell   Aug-02-10 01:43 AM   #121 
        - they may be open enrollment  dsc   Aug-01-10 08:18 PM   #56 
     - And they send the low-performing back to the public schools.  madfloridian   Aug-01-10 07:45 PM   #45 
     - bullshit. if they don't want disabled kids, they JUST DON'T PROVIDE DISABLED SERVICES.  Hannah Bell   Aug-01-10 10:17 PM   #88 
  - no they're not. charters draw tax revenue from an entire district but they have no  Hannah Bell   Aug-01-10 10:13 PM   #87 
     - Did you read the report I linked to? Simply yelling something  johnaries   Aug-01-10 10:51 PM   #98 
        - neither does propaganda funded by the john birch right.  Hannah Bell   Aug-02-10 01:44 AM   #122 
  - Your blanket statement is false.  noamnety   Aug-01-10 08:55 PM   #68 
  - it goes further. Obama is pocketing cash from his corporate friends  Whisp   Aug-01-10 11:41 PM   #106 
  - One of the Native American Charter Schools, Heart of the Earth,  dflprincess   Aug-01-10 08:51 PM   #65 
  - Charter schools are allowed to exist outside the school board  Curmudgeoness   Aug-01-10 06:53 PM   #6 
  - I would be glad to see classrooms with more freedom but if you look  jwirr   Aug-01-10 06:57 PM   #9 
  - Charters do free schools from regulations  sandnsea   Aug-01-10 07:22 PM   #20 
     - All schools could do better if they could cherry pick their students.  laughingliberal   Aug-01-10 07:32 PM   #31 
     - This is exactly what I was saying. Make public schools less  Curmudgeoness   Aug-01-10 07:34 PM   #33 
        - That's what charters do  sandnsea   Aug-01-10 09:36 PM   #80 
           - EXACTLY! Thank you! Find out what works for the STUDENTS.  johnaries   Aug-01-10 11:08 PM   #103 
           - lol. 5 national studies show charters have no advantages over traditional public schools.  Hannah Bell   Aug-02-10 01:45 AM   #123 
  - The problem isn't charter schools in an of themselves, it's one promoted by...  Odin2005   Aug-01-10 07:01 PM   #11 
  - And the greatest confusion of all...  Orsino   Aug-01-10 07:06 PM   #13 
  - This is simply right wing propganda to me  Scruffy1   Aug-01-10 07:18 PM   #15 
  - RW propaganda isn't backed up with facts.  johnaries   Aug-01-10 07:26 PM   #24 
     - The "right wing propaganda" is all the cheery stories about how great charters are.  Hannah Bell   Aug-01-10 10:24 PM   #90 
  - It's very, very simple  MadHound   Aug-01-10 07:22 PM   #18 
  - Actually, it is owned by the local government. And if they fail,  johnaries   Aug-01-10 07:29 PM   #26 
  - A charter school is NOT owned by the local government  MadHound   Aug-01-10 07:33 PM   #32 
  - Please read my links upthread. They are NOT privately owned.  johnaries   Aug-01-10 07:47 PM   #47 
     - I don't have to read your links, I've read actual charters for charter schools  MadHound   Aug-01-10 07:54 PM   #49 
        - Well if you want to get personal I can share my experience.  johnaries   Aug-01-10 08:21 PM   #57 
  - They are most certainly not.  rucky   Aug-01-10 10:54 PM   #99 
  - How about reading this  prolesunited   Aug-01-10 08:00 PM   #51 
     - Thank you.  johnaries   Aug-01-10 08:30 PM   #58 
     - There also *IS* a difference between charters and the public school system & they divert funds. nt  laughingliberal   Aug-01-10 08:36 PM   #60 
     - Al shanker was a corporate stooge. he played the ralph nader role in the ed union divide & rule  Hannah Bell   Aug-01-10 10:32 PM   #93 
     - Oh, my dear, you've got me. The dreaded wiki copy and paste. The horror.  MadHound   Aug-01-10 11:33 PM   #105 
     - no tuition, no religious affilation nor selective admission.  Whisp   Aug-01-10 11:48 PM   #108 
     - charging tuition is not the issue: it's giving private companies tax money to educate our kids  yurbud   Aug-02-10 12:15 AM   #112 
     - ONLY "WI, CA, MI, and AZ allow for-profit corporations to manage charter schools" = false  Hannah Bell   Aug-02-10 01:36 AM   #116 
     - Where are you getting the "only" from?  fishwax   Aug-02-10 01:40 AM   #118 
     - thank you. for-profits are in way more than the four states listed.  Hannah Bell   Aug-02-10 01:46 AM   #124 
     - So are your fingers in your ears or are you willfully ignoring the facts about Shanker?  proud2BlibKansan   Aug-04-10 10:33 AM   #145 
  - The very nature and cause of the opposition is in your OP.  Chan790   Aug-01-10 07:24 PM   #21 
  - Your very first sentence is completely erroneous.  johnaries   Aug-01-10 07:31 PM   #29 
  - And as several people pointed out, you're wrong.  Chan790   Aug-01-10 07:49 PM   #48 
     - So, your extensive experience in one city allows you to broad-  johnaries   Aug-01-10 08:38 PM   #61 
  - From your own background and where you donate  noamnety   Aug-01-10 09:25 PM   #77 
     - I'm sorry if I gave the wrong impression.  johnaries   Aug-01-10 11:04 PM   #101 
     - I was asking Chan - I understood where you were coming from!  noamnety   Aug-01-10 11:17 PM   #104 
     - Interesting...  Chan790   Aug-02-10 12:11 AM   #111 
     - I think I wasn't really clear b/c I was trying to not write a 15pg. essay on my ideal edu. model.  Chan790   Aug-02-10 12:01 AM   #110 
  - Nice try at muddying the issue, but we're too smart here...  joeybee12   Aug-01-10 07:24 PM   #22 
  - Are you accusing me of something?  johnaries   Aug-01-10 07:40 PM   #40 
     - Most of us are pretty clear that 30 years of underfunding hurt the public school system  laughingliberal   Aug-01-10 08:39 PM   #62 
        - I'll agree about the underfunding. But charter schools ARE  johnaries   Aug-01-10 08:54 PM   #67 
           - Restore the funding to the public school system and quit pursuing Reagan/Gingrich style schemes  laughingliberal   Aug-01-10 09:00 PM   #69 
  - The problem is not the way they are defined. The problem is...  YvonneCa   Aug-01-10 07:30 PM   #28 
  - Thanks for enlightening us all.  asdjrocky   Aug-01-10 07:45 PM   #46 
  - I'm not the least bit confused, I don't need any patronizing "explanations"  LWolf   Aug-01-10 08:04 PM   #55 
  - You are twisting my words. I am AGAINST privatization and  johnaries   Aug-01-10 08:44 PM   #63 
  - We should be opposing anything other than restoring full and adequate funding to our...  laughingliberal   Aug-01-10 09:05 PM   #71 
  - Charter schools help ALL public schools by....  LWolf   Aug-02-10 09:19 AM   #128 
  - 'union busting',,,yep, that is the big key  DebJ   Aug-01-10 10:19 PM   #89 
  - I am an old guy. Charter schools remind me of things like the Arizona  rurallib   Aug-01-10 08:33 PM   #59 
  - Yes. Reading between the lines seems to be a lost art among large segments of the population...  laughingliberal   Aug-01-10 09:33 PM   #79 
  - Different techniques ARE implemented in individual public schools every year.  MichiganVote   Aug-01-10 08:52 PM   #66 
  - nice try....but must people don`t buy it.  madrchsod   Aug-01-10 09:09 PM   #72 
  - If you tell a lie enough times, "most people" will believe it.  johnaries   Aug-01-10 10:47 PM   #96 
  - Nope. Not confused. But thanks.  Pithlet   Aug-01-10 09:19 PM   #75 
  - Nice try  nadinbrzezinski   Aug-01-10 09:43 PM   #81 
  - "independent of school board"?? not in York Pa, where  DebJ   Aug-01-10 10:11 PM   #86 
  - Unrec  Stinky The Clown   Aug-01-10 10:24 PM   #91 
  - I work in both types of schools.  The Midway Rebel   Aug-01-10 10:45 PM   #95 
  - Last spring, I taught in a charter and a private school (half day each).  knitter4democracy   Aug-01-10 10:59 PM   #100 
  - 4th-5th grade classroom: 10 out of 25 on IEP's. Last year.  Greyskye   Aug-02-10 10:01 AM   #130 
  - Q: can charter schools be run by for profit companies? A: yes they can. Your post is dishonest  yurbud   Aug-01-10 10:49 PM   #97 
  - Only in 4 states. See post #51.  johnaries   Aug-01-10 11:06 PM   #102 
     - nominal non-profits can still turn a profit with real estate scams like this:  yurbud   Aug-02-10 12:22 AM   #113 
     - why else would LA real estate mogul Eli Broad take such an interest in it?  yurbud   Aug-02-10 12:27 AM   #114 
     - then how does National Heritage Academies operate schools in eight states?  fishwax   Aug-02-10 01:42 AM   #120 
     - Stop lying, stop using Wiki for a source, and stop spreading false bullshit  MadHound   Aug-02-10 10:02 AM   #131 
  - Thankfully no one's buying what you're trying to sell.  ibegurpard   Aug-01-10 11:48 PM   #107 
  - Your position does not reflect the current realities  ProgressiveProfessor   Aug-01-10 11:54 PM   #109 
  - we should thank the OP for reminding us of the achilles heel of these education ''reformers''  yurbud   Aug-02-10 01:42 AM   #119 
     - To kill them all is unwarranted and counter productive  ProgressiveProfessor   Aug-02-10 02:06 AM   #126 
        - I agree. Unfortunately, the scammers have the bucks to drive reform and will craft it  yurbud   Aug-02-10 03:18 AM   #127 
  - Okay, so they're a third thing promoted by right wing private school advocates to drain funds...  ClassWarrior   Aug-02-10 12:37 AM   #115 
  - No answer??  ClassWarrior   Aug-02-10 10:33 AM   #135 
  - Kick - The Merits of Charter Schools Should Be Discussed Without The Misinformation...  TomCADem   Aug-02-10 02:02 AM   #125 
  - What are the merits of charter schools?  MadHound   Aug-02-10 10:07 AM   #132 
     - yes - magnet schools acheive all the touted positve results  Warren Stupidity   Aug-02-10 10:25 AM   #134 
        - Sure they will,  MadHound   Aug-02-10 10:37 AM   #136 
  - No. They are a shell game to defund public education.  Warren Stupidity   Aug-02-10 09:56 AM   #129 
  - Charter Schools  LeFleur1   Aug-02-10 10:16 AM   #133 
  - Want to fix the Public School System?  bvar22   Aug-02-10 05:58 PM   #137 
  - But what if your public school IS a charter school?  Phentex   Aug-02-10 08:18 PM   #139 
  - the public didn't buy the diversion to private pockets with vouchers, so they had to get sneakier  yurbud   Aug-03-10 10:14 AM   #142 
  - Charter school:  mmonk   Aug-02-10 06:08 PM   #138 
  - Oh Boy!  bvar22   Aug-03-10 12:01 PM   #143 
     - Yep.  mmonk   Aug-04-10 10:20 AM   #144 
  - lol  fascisthunter   Aug-02-10 08:23 PM   #140 

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