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Reply #14: That is pretty much it, the framing of the issue [View All]

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NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-22-10 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. That is pretty much it, the framing of the issue
some want to frame it as party vs ideology, while in fact it would be more accurately framed as pragmatism vs idealism
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  -It's time to stop misconstruing what the debate on DU is about. Unvanguard  Jun-22-10 11:35 AM   #0 
  - "rather than caricaturing or otherwise distorting it"  JuniperLea   Jun-22-10 11:42 AM   #1 
  - Thanks for your thoughtful post...  Scuba   Jun-22-10 11:46 AM   #2 
  - I think you've hit on a salient point that we often miss. Outside of DU,  blondeatlast   Jun-22-10 11:51 AM   #4 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Jun-22-10 11:50 AM   #3 
  - I don't want the world to see DU as a "unified voice." I think spirited but reasoned debate  blondeatlast   Jun-22-10 11:54 AM   #5 
  - Hell, I can't even agree with myself on Obama -- I sure don't expect to agree with other DUers.  damntexdem   Jun-22-10 12:59 PM   #21 
     - Exactly. I take pride in knowing both of the extremes don't want me at their  blondeatlast   Jun-22-10 01:16 PM   #29 
  - That's unfair, because they aren't trying for a unified voice  treestar   Jun-22-10 12:06 PM   #8 
  - I would love to have an idea how many DUers fall  watrwefitinfor   Jun-22-10 11:56 AM   #6 
  - I've noticed a few of us around.  Unvanguard   Jun-22-10 12:21 PM   #11 
  - Half of me agrees with you and the other half has doubts  starroute   Jun-22-10 01:33 PM   #35 
     - I agree with your father's idea: a little ass kicking is needed.  CTyankee   Jun-22-10 01:44 PM   #41 
     - Well, I think machine politics present substantially different issues  Unvanguard   Jun-22-10 02:12 PM   #45 
  - I'll check in.  rucky   Jun-22-10 01:36 PM   #36 
  - The assessment of the political circumstances  treestar   Jun-22-10 12:03 PM   #7 
  - First, let me thank you for a particularly thoughtful post. Well done.  Laelth   Jun-22-10 12:13 PM   #9 
  - Whatever the DU rules, I don't mind being insulted if the claim is true.  Unvanguard   Jun-22-10 12:33 PM   #13 
  - That is pretty much it, the framing of the issue  NJmaverick   Jun-22-10 12:41 PM   #14 
  - Many of us feel that holding Democrats' feet to the fire is very pragmatic.  Laelth   Jun-22-10 01:18 PM   #32 
     - You find this framing "insulting"?  NJmaverick   Jun-22-10 01:32 PM   #34 
  - I hear you.  Laelth   Jun-22-10 01:17 PM   #31 
     - That's not true, though.  Unvanguard   Jun-22-10 01:38 PM   #37 
  - "some of us just can't go there"  ecstatic   Jun-22-10 12:43 PM   #15 
     - I don't think it's likely that the Republicans will win.  Laelth   Jun-22-10 12:57 PM   #20 
        - So you're hoping that those of us who don't share your deep morals and convictions  ecstatic   Jun-22-10 01:02 PM   #22 
           - Comprehension fail  Tailormyst   Jun-22-10 01:14 PM   #28 
           - I think that Democrats should act like Democrats if they want to win.  Laelth   Jun-22-10 01:20 PM   #33 
  - Very well said and I agree whole heartedly with the views you have expressed  NJmaverick   Jun-22-10 12:19 PM   #10 
  - While there are some  H2O Man   Jun-22-10 12:31 PM   #12 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Jun-22-10 12:44 PM   #16 
  - No, it violated a very specific rule--that of not calling out members or moderators.  blondeatlast   Jun-22-10 12:48 PM   #17 
     - Deleted message  Name removed   Jun-22-10 01:06 PM   #25 
        - Frame it how you want. You did call out the mods. But if it makes you feel better,  blondeatlast   Jun-22-10 01:09 PM   #27 
  - When I first joined up back in 2001, I thought DU was for lefties who can still call themselves Dems  librechik   Jun-22-10 12:52 PM   #18 
  - .  walldude   Jun-22-10 01:08 PM   #26 
  - I would like to see people try harder also.  Tailormyst   Jun-22-10 12:54 PM   #19 
  - I will try my best to respond to this.  Unvanguard   Jun-22-10 01:16 PM   #30 
     - I agree whole-heartedly with your last line  Tailormyst   Jun-22-10 01:38 PM   #38 
     - But when would it be the right time...  okie   Jun-22-10 02:24 PM   #48 
        - I agree with much of what you say, but my pessimistic answer is "There is no real alternative."  Unvanguard   Jun-22-10 02:47 PM   #51 
           - Much depends on our perspective  okie   Jun-22-10 04:17 PM   #52 
  - I liked this OP.  EFerrari   Jun-22-10 01:03 PM   #23 
  - Thanks for your kind remarks.  Unvanguard   Jun-22-10 01:55 PM   #43 
     - Excellent response  HughMoran   Jun-22-10 02:04 PM   #44 
     - The problem with arguing that this isn't a left/right conflict  EFerrari   Jun-22-10 02:17 PM   #47 
        - Fair enough.  Unvanguard   Jun-22-10 02:36 PM   #49 
           - Let's see how we do.  EFerrari   Jun-22-10 02:44 PM   #50 
           - Left-wing Democrats will disengage...  TBF   Jun-22-10 05:19 PM   #53 
  - Some of us are fighting for something much more deeper than you have posted.  mmonk   Jun-22-10 01:04 PM   #24 
  - K&R  rucky   Jun-22-10 01:39 PM   #39 
  - I could not agree with this post more. Well done.  grantcart   Jun-22-10 01:41 PM   #40 
  - Your political perspective and assessment of the issues we confront align with my thinking as well  HughMoran   Jun-22-10 01:55 PM   #42 
     - You are free to link to it as much as you like.  Unvanguard   Jun-22-10 02:15 PM   #46 

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