Reply #138: Okay, first off, making blanket statements about "drugs" is like making blanket statements about

[Warren DeMontague]

"life on Earth", and then wondering why the tree you brought home as a pet won't fetch a ball. Alcohol is not pot is not meth is not psychedelics is not nicotine, etc. etc. etc.

I haven't "ignored" anything, but I *do* know what I'm talking about. Psychedelics, Pot, Alcohol, etc. are not for everyone. There are plenty of people who shouldn't drink at all, nevertheless does that mean that alcohol is intrinsically evil? Always bad? Should be roundly condemned? That anyone who ever had a positive experience after a glass of wine is just 'in denial'? NO. Just because some people can't drink alcohol (I'm one of them) and alcohol certainly can be deadly AND make people do incredibly stupid shit, I am not going to say that alcohol in all situations and circumstances is terrible, evil, "bad".

Lots of people enjoy it recreationally and do just fine with it, in fact it can be good for them.

There is the substance, there is the person using the substance, there is the relationship between the two, and then there are a host of other factors, including the situation, 'set, setting and dosage', etc. etc. That's just for starters.

Add to that, when it comes to certain mind-altering substances and/or other experiences (think peyote and sweat lodges), there is a cultural tradition, often shamanistic, whereby transformative or otherwise "I"-opening experiences can be facilitated by people who know what they're doing and how to lead through the rite of passage.

I have a few baseline principles when it comes to issues in this area of our society:

First off, I think pot should be legalized, regulated, taxed and available to consenting adults. No question.

Second, I think the entire drug war approach of criminalizing substances and users is a complete and abject failure. At the very least, treating hard drugs like a public health problem instead of a law enforcement one should be our starting point. The left-libertarian in me says, really, if someone isn't directly harming or endangering someone else (driving under the influence, neglecting their kids, etc) then what they do with their own damn body should be their own damn business.

That said, I have trouble envisioning meth being sold at the 7-11, for instance. Like I said all substances are not created equal, and a tree is not a dog is not a fish, nor do you get anywhere by treating them as all the same.

Lastly, on the subject of psychedelics; as I mentioned above, most people in the modern world don't have the cultural apparatus handy to guide them through those experiences, and they can be tough to navigate on their own. Some folks were lucky, that way.

It's worth noting that, after several decades of the scientific world playing hot potato with this subject matter, you are now seeing real, legitimate research into the therapeutic potential of psychedelic experiences.

I certainly don't think the experiences are for everyone, nor am I "ignoring" the "dark side". You, on the other hand, seem determined to argue that no one could ever get anything beneficial out of such an experience, ever :shrug: -not to mention the tired, terribly un-original insults and ad hominem attacks- when it's something you clearly don't have any personal understanding of, yourself.

Which is fine- I used to see this silly argument replayed all the time back in my youth, before I got tired of it; in fact it was a favorite in my dorm at college: "The Trippers vs. The People who WOULD NEVER DO IT--- yet are EXPERTS on how awful it is."

Honestly, there's no point.

Like the song says, you aint gonna learn what you don't want to know.

Peace.