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Reply #75: If criminal doesn't have a gun at the crime they CAN'T shoot a victim [View All]

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Statistical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-24-10 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #74
75. If criminal doesn't have a gun at the crime they CAN'T shoot a victim
Edited on Mon May-24-10 11:30 AM by Statistical
Having a gun at crime increases the chance the someone will be injured hence a threat of violence is a violent crime.

IF we accept that some amount of crime will occur each year (say 500,000 events) then a way to reduce death and injury is to reduce the frequency that criminals bring weapons to those crimes. Punishing a criminal for turning petty theft into a violent crime is one such way.

Only considering crimes where one actually commits injury as deserving of serious punishment would be like only giving seatbelt tickets to those who died in a car accident without a seatbelt. I mean after all if cop pulls you over for speeding and you aren't wearing your seatbelt you weren't injured by that violation (at least not yet).

While it may be at the "bottom end" of violent crime it is still in the violent crime category.
Decriminalize non-violent drug possession and you would free up sufficient space to punish VIOLENT criminals more severely.

on edit: updated post to more clearly indicate that the criminal weapon at crime increases risk.
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  -Armed Robber steals $4 pack of socks, gets life in prison The Straight Story  May-23-10 11:14 PM   #0 
  - Maybe some people are well off because of an attempt  RandomThoughts   May-23-10 11:16 PM   #1 
  - Access to a gun ruined this man's life.  sharesunited   May-23-10 11:20 PM   #2 
  - Using the gun during the commission of yet another crime  Riftaxe   May-23-10 11:22 PM   #4 
  - Criminal behavior ruined this man's life.  proteus_lives   May-23-10 11:23 PM   #5 
  - Obviously, having the gun emboldened him to commit the crime.  sharesunited   May-23-10 11:27 PM   #7 
     - Never going stop trying to get that fail-wagon moving, huh?  proteus_lives   May-24-10 01:03 AM   #17 
  - No, whatever reduced him to having to steal socks and underwear...  Scuba   May-24-10 05:28 AM   #23 
  - The same forces that invented "zero-tolerance"...  Orsino   May-24-10 09:33 AM   #57 
  - I believe in zero-tolerance for violent crimes.  Statistical   May-24-10 09:55 AM   #63 
     - Zero-tolerance is always an excuse...  Orsino   May-24-10 09:58 AM   #64 
        - That is where we differ. Long and severe IS the appropriate punishment for violent criminals.  Statistical   May-24-10 10:04 AM   #67 
           - Zero-tolerance would mean stupid stuff like life imprisonment without parole...  Orsino   May-24-10 10:48 AM   #74 
              - If criminal doesn't have a gun at the crime they CAN'T shoot a victim  Statistical   May-24-10 10:55 AM   #75 
                 - I can't buy that theory...  Orsino   May-24-10 11:21 AM   #79 
                    - No buden on law abiding citzen.  Statistical   May-24-10 11:27 AM   #80 
                       - Anyone, to include bystanders and law enforcement...  Orsino   May-24-10 11:30 AM   #81 
                          - In a legal sense he defined his intent by bringing a weapon to the crime.  Statistical   May-24-10 11:35 AM   #82 
                             - Yes, it's a "pretty simple concept."  Orsino   May-24-10 12:03 PM   #83 
  - Apparently, he could afford a gun /nt  jberryhill   May-24-10 01:55 PM   #90 
     - He could have bought a complete set of halfway decent clothes for what he paid for the gun  slackmaster   May-25-10 11:21 AM   # 
  - Fool  Rebubula   May-24-10 11:04 AM   #77 
  - He'd have gotten exactly the same sentence had he used a toy or fake gun instead of a real one  slackmaster   May-25-10 11:13 AM   #94 
  - All this for $4.00? Idiotic  lefty2000   May-23-10 11:21 PM   #3 
  - This was more about the gun than $4 socks. nt  Lucky Luciano   May-23-10 11:30 PM   #8 
  - Maybe you wouldn't feel that way if you'd had the gun pointed at you.  salguine   May-24-10 08:43 AM   #34 
  - I see it as being idiotic on the part of the robber  slackmaster   May-24-10 09:26 AM   #47 
  - So we should just ignore the fact that this guy  Goblinmonger   May-24-10 10:01 AM   #65 
  - Fear of freedom?  proteus_lives   May-23-10 11:25 PM   #6 
  - The former- fear  depakid   May-23-10 11:35 PM   #9 
     - Deleted message  Name removed   May-24-10 01:02 AM   #16 
        - Fear is exactly what promotes this sort of deal- it's also behind the zero tolerance crap  depakid   May-24-10 08:40 AM   #33 
  - sorry i'm done feeling sorry for armed robbers  pitohui   May-23-10 11:53 PM   #10 
  - Shot at by crack heads?  asdjrocky   May-24-10 08:57 AM   #39 
  - Sounds like he is a fucking idiot.  LostInAnomie   May-23-10 11:59 PM   #11 
  - +1 n/t  tammywammy   May-24-10 12:26 AM   #14 
  - pretty simple.. dont do the crime you dont do the time.....that being said...  ORDagnabbit   May-24-10 12:20 AM   #12 
  - "armed robber"  Vickers   May-24-10 12:24 AM   #13 
  - it's because he is a repeat offender, but i want to know what he was in prison the first time  JI7   May-24-10 12:28 AM   #15 
  - Fla Dept of Corr website - offender search nt  Obamanaut   May-24-10 01:12 AM   #19 
  - And Murkans wonder why the USA has more people behind bars than any other country  Cali_Democrat   May-24-10 01:04 AM   #18 
  - Probably because they use guns  Dorian Gray   May-24-10 05:49 AM   #24 
  - It's partly because we have more violent criminals than any other country  slackmaster   May-24-10 09:28 AM   #48 
  - Drug crimes.  Goblinmonger   May-24-10 10:02 AM   #66 
  - Remove non-violent drug offenders from prison.  Statistical   May-24-10 10:36 AM   #71 
     - Yes.  krabigirl   May-24-10 12:04 PM   #84 
  - locking up armed robbers is now un-liberal?  dionysus   May-25-10 11:21 AM   #96 
  - If that gun was in your face, would you care what he was trying to steal?  Dreamer Tatum   May-24-10 01:13 AM   #20 
  - I had a gun pointed right at my face.  byrok   May-24-10 07:22 AM   #27 
     - Deleted message  Name removed   May-24-10 07:41 AM   #29 
     - Deleted message  Name removed   May-24-10 08:03 AM   #30 
     - Give me the name and local  michreject   May-24-10 08:28 AM   #31 
        - The statement was a written deposition...  byrok   May-24-10 08:55 AM   #38 
        - Don't Proffer Any More Information On This.  Paladin   May-24-10 09:17 AM   #42 
           - You're right.  byrok   May-24-10 09:25 AM   #44 
              - You Are Most Welcome. Try To Maintain That Healthy Perspective. (n/t)  Paladin   May-24-10 10:35 AM   #70 
        - Some jurisdictions allow a victim impact statement @ sentencing. n/t  proudohioan   May-24-10 09:29 AM   #52 
           - That is exactly right. n/t  byrok   May-24-10 09:31 AM   #55 
     - You are way off-base.  Dappleganger   May-24-10 09:35 AM   #58 
        - Thank you.  byrok   May-24-10 09:43 AM   #60 
     - The state of FL does not believe in rehab.  Dappleganger   May-24-10 09:26 AM   #46 
     - As someone who has a friend doing prison time for robberies he committed for drug money,  slackmaster   May-24-10 09:29 AM   #53 
  - What these "law and order" authoritarians fail to understand is that as we move  Greyhound   May-24-10 04:32 AM   #21 
  - No penalty for murder should be death penalty.  Statistical   May-24-10 08:45 AM   #35 
  - Robbery is not the same thing as petty theft  slackmaster   May-24-10 09:30 AM   #54 
     - +1. Very important distinction.  Statistical   May-24-10 09:49 AM   #61 
     - Bottom line however is that this is still a pety crime given these facts  depakid   May-24-10 12:09 PM   #85 
        - No it isn't.  Statistical   May-24-10 12:27 PM   #86 
        - Under these facts it certainly was!  depakid   May-24-10 12:33 PM   #87 
           - "guy shows a gun" = threat of violence with weapon during an armed robbery.  Statistical   May-24-10 12:38 PM   #88 
           - He used a threat of deadly force to keep from getting grabbed  slackmaster   May-25-10 11:08 AM   #92 
        - He didn't get life in prison for this one crime  slackmaster   May-25-10 11:09 AM   #93 
     - You and Statistical make my point right here.  Greyhound   May-24-10 01:44 PM   #89 
  - Won't find me crying over this one.  Nailzberg   May-24-10 05:07 AM   #22 
  - Horrible decision making and there you go.  jp11   May-24-10 06:43 AM   #25 
  - He didn't get prison for $4 socks. He got prison for an armed robbery.  Statistical   May-24-10 07:22 AM   #26 
  - if only he stayed in school and eventually gotten a job on Wall Street  Blue_Tires   May-24-10 07:34 AM   #28 
  - That's right.  SammyWinstonJack   May-24-10 11:12 AM   #78 
  - Sock problem permanently solved. n/t  NorthCarolina   May-24-10 08:36 AM   #32 
  - Reading this thread and the responses makes one realize why America's headed for third world status  depakid   May-24-10 08:49 AM   #36 
  - Because there are people who are stupid enough to throw away their freedom for some cheap socks  slackmaster   May-24-10 09:31 AM   #56 
     - No- because the knee jerk reactions are both very costly and evince a nation that no longer cares  depakid   May-24-10 10:39 AM   #72 
  - Good.  Nye Bevan   May-24-10 08:53 AM   #37 
  - Just like in states with the death penetly, people kill less?  asdjrocky   May-24-10 09:01 AM   #40 
     - That's one of the reasons I oppose the death penalty  Nye Bevan   May-24-10 09:11 AM   #41 
     - I agree and disagree...  pipi_k   May-24-10 09:37 AM   #59 
     - Murder is rarely a crime of opportunity.  Statistical   May-24-10 09:53 AM   #62 
        - Good points. In the 50s and 60s the criminal gangs in the UK used to pat each other down  Nye Bevan   May-24-10 10:32 AM   #68 
           - That is a major reason why I feel felony murder statute is a good one.  Statistical   May-24-10 10:35 AM   #69 
  - Wouldn't have made any difference if he had got away empty handed  NNN0LHI   May-24-10 09:22 AM   #43 
  - Very true.  Dappleganger   May-24-10 09:28 AM   #49 
  - The value of the items that the robber took is totally irrelevant. Robbery is by definition violent.  slackmaster   May-24-10 09:25 AM   #45 
  - This thread is a great example of the reading comprehension of people on DU.  Dappleganger   May-24-10 09:28 AM   #50 
  - Armed robbery where all he got away with was a pack of socks  Renew Deal   May-24-10 09:29 AM   #51 
  - Why are we arguing about his sentence?  Taitertots   May-24-10 10:46 AM   #73 
  - The benefits to sociey from better prison rehabilitation would be enormous  Nye Bevan   May-24-10 10:58 AM   #76 
     - Or, after several periods of incarceration rehab wears off. nt  Obamanaut   May-25-10 11:40 AM   #98 
  - I think the moral of this story is don't go out and commit armed robbery  no limit   May-24-10 01:57 PM   #91 
  - cheney getting away with crimes doesnt excuse armed robbery.  dionysus   May-25-10 11:18 AM   #95 
  - An inept armed robber with poor judgment about what to steal is still an armed robber.  Warren DeMontague   May-25-10 11:38 AM   #97 
  - Yeah, if I were the Juror, I would disregard the Judge  Dank Nugs   May-25-10 09:42 PM   #99 

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