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Reply #143: I beg your pardon, was I talking to you? [View All]

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Confusious Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #142
143. I beg your pardon, was I talking to you?
Edited on Sat May-22-10 02:44 PM by Confusious
I haven't given you all my reasons. I came to the conclusion, after an attempt, that no matter what I said, it would be dismissed as racism.Do you spend your time banging your head against a wall? I don't.

You can also say " Go ahead and list your points", but people don't change their spots that quick. If you're unwilling to listen and dismissed me that easily yesterday, you're just as unwilling today.

Claiming that people are merely accusing you of being "a red-neck DINO racist" - as though you were somehow being treated unfairly and being persecuted - is a disingenuous way to deflect people's attention and make a mess of the discussion. That is a trick perfected by the right wing hate radio jocks - anytime racism gets discussed at all they play all hurt and innocent and offended - "how dare you call me a racist!" - or accuse the other person of "playing the race card" and that effectively shuts down any discussion and gives them complete freedom to spout whatever they like without being challenged on it.


I was pointing out the person said they cared about the reasons for supporting the law, and then in the next breath already knew "racism" was the reason for it, so why even ask the question? I didn't claim or even say that they were playing the race card. I probably should have posted the sarcasm tag along with "red-neck DINO racist", but I was in a hurry.

Point A in that your mind is already made up, no matter what, and you're just looking for things to confirm your view.

I said that whether or not a person "is" a racist, that supporting the bill in Arizona was supporting racism. I can defend and support that statement to the satisfaction of all decent and fair-minded observers.


Of course, I have never said whether or not I agree with the law. I just pointed out people's flaws in their view of the language of the law. You automaticly assume I support it because I corrected people about it.

It would be the same as if I pointed out the flaws in people's view of what the NAZI's believe, and you taking that and claiming I was one. Very logical don't you think?

Point B in that your mind is already made up, no matter what, and you're just looking for things to confirm your view.

You have not, and I believe cannot, come up with a response to that consistent with being a Democrat, liberal or progressive that is not an overt expression of racism, or that is not clearly illogical.


No, not to you satisfaction, which I believe I will never be able to do. I don't believe in open borders, nor do I believe that people here illegally should be allowed to stay or work. Anything less then that is going to be racism in your eyes.

I don't think a lot of people could live up to your standard. I get the feeling if someone said "I hate Humus" you would twist it into something like " They hate the food, therefore they hate middle easterners, and since they are brown, they hate all brown people, therefore a racist." It's not very logical, and it is the exact same thing as thinking that because I don't like illegal immigrants, I don't like ALL immigrants, and therefore a racist.

Point C in that your mind is already made up, no matter what, and you're just looking for things to confirm your view.

As far as calling me illogical, this from someone who called the supply and demand curve an invention of Allen Greenspan. I don't have a lot of faith in your abilities at logic.

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  -Little Girl Who Challenged First Lady Is Right: Obama Is Deporting More Immigrants Than Ever Bluebear  May-20-10 03:12 PM   #0 
  - My thread on the Dream Act that he said he supporeted sank like  EFerrari   May-20-10 03:14 PM   #1 
  - 1 out of 4 DUers SUPPORT the Arizona bill.  Bluebear   May-20-10 03:19 PM   #3 
     - I was having a delightful day and then I posted that poll.  blondeatlast   May-20-10 03:40 PM   #16 
     - HAHA  Confusious   May-21-10 03:35 PM   #57 
     - begging your pardon  William Z. Foster   May-22-10 01:48 PM   #142 
        - I beg your pardon, was I talking to you?  Confusious   May-22-10 02:29 PM   #143 
        - not so  William Z. Foster   May-22-10 03:56 PM   #151 
        - As for your articles  Confusious   May-22-10 02:42 PM   #144 
           - thanks  William Z. Foster   May-22-10 04:24 PM   #154 
     - I think this was  pintobean   May-21-10 04:29 PM   #61 
     - The moderators locked you out of that thread  harkadog   May-21-10 07:39 PM   #67 
     - One of those kids is gay and his family came from Iran. n/t  EFerrari   May-20-10 04:16 PM   #23 
     - Wow, 28 out of 142 votes in the poll. Now that certainly is a definitive reflection  elocs   May-20-10 04:35 PM   #31 
     - It got locked so most couldn't vote  dkf   May-21-10 08:40 PM   #76 
     - Actually, it's 36 posters who chose to vote in that poll.  TexasObserver   May-20-10 05:48 PM   #40 
  - wrong spot  Bluebear   May-20-10 03:18 PM   #2 
  - That's a powerful article, video and graph  suffragette   May-20-10 03:23 PM   #4 
  - Another opinion posted at the exact time as you  Bluebear   May-20-10 03:28 PM   #8 
     - I feel that way sometimes, too  suffragette   May-20-10 03:47 PM   #17 
  - Is HuffPo really trying to spin that enforcing the law  SpartanDem   May-20-10 03:23 PM   #5 
  - Yes, they are a bunch of libs who support lawlessness & anarchy  Bluebear   May-20-10 03:27 PM   #6 
  - Nobody's deporting immigrants (unless they commit felonies).  Lance_Boyle   May-20-10 03:28 PM   #7 
  - Super, then you'll feel safer at night.  Bluebear   May-20-10 03:32 PM   #10 
  - Incorrect. This is beginning in my town, because of Arizona.  Dank Nugs   May-20-10 03:33 PM   #11 
  - that doesn't appear to say anything about legal residents being deported... n/t  Lance_Boyle   May-20-10 03:36 PM   #12 
     - Doesn't negate the fact that it violates the 4th n/t  Dank Nugs   May-20-10 03:39 PM   #14 
        - It does? How so?  Better Today   May-20-10 04:05 PM   #20 
        - It is a blanket policy, not limited in scope to the crime the person being arrested is accused of  Dank Nugs   May-20-10 04:11 PM   #21 
           - Being sent back to your home country, is not criminal punishment, though.  Better Today   May-20-10 04:18 PM   #24 
              - Yeah, along with 4 kids born in the US who have never known anything different.  Bluebear   May-20-10 04:19 PM   #25 
              - I believe those children should stay with their parents, but have US citizenship to return  Better Today   May-20-10 04:24 PM   #28 
              - Protecting American children is one of the Progressive Caucus' goals with immigration reform.  pampango   May-21-10 07:50 AM   #52 
              - of course it is  William Z. Foster   May-21-10 10:45 PM   #115 
        - Are you a lawyer?  Confusious   May-21-10 03:59 PM   #59 
  - Not so sure about that  suffragette   May-20-10 03:40 PM   #15 
  - No surprise here  Dank Nugs   May-20-10 03:31 PM   #9 
  - Increased deportations are the result of a massive increase in border security  grantcart   May-20-10 03:37 PM   #13 
  - + 1 NT  ecstatic   May-20-10 04:23 PM   #27 
  - 1.5% of illegal aliens in the US are criminally deported each year?  lumberjack_jeff   May-20-10 03:59 PM   #18 
  - If they are here illegally, why would we not deport them? I'm confused as to the problem here.  Better Today   May-20-10 04:03 PM   #19 
  - No problem, glad you feel safer  Bluebear   May-20-10 04:15 PM   #22 
  - Safer? What are you talking about? I said nothing about safety one way or another.  Better Today   May-20-10 04:22 PM   #26 
  - 'it's just the right thing to do' - you're all heart.  Bluebear   May-20-10 04:30 PM   #29 
     - Sorry, but illegal is illegal. Getting sent back isn't criminal punishment, and  Better Today   May-20-10 04:34 PM   #30 
        - Deleted sub-thread  Name removed   May-20-10 04:37 PM   #32 
        - The problem is that the government  getthefacts   May-20-10 04:50 PM   #33 
           - Oh, the kids again. Well, y'know many kids are moved to places they don't know  Better Today   May-20-10 04:53 PM   #35 
              - "Get over it" - disgusting.  Bluebear   May-20-10 04:55 PM   #36 
              - You misunderstood me  getthefacts   May-20-10 04:55 PM   #37 
                 - This happens to children, moving to places they don't know and don't know the  Better Today   May-20-10 04:58 PM   #38 
                 - Deleted message  Name removed   May-20-10 05:03 PM   #39 
                 - I understand the first part of your comment and your  Fruittree   May-21-10 07:46 PM   #70 
                    - By the time I was twelve, I could understand my grandmother  EFerrari   May-21-10 08:35 PM   #74 
  - Hey, c'mon now Bluebear.  Spike from MN   May-21-10 12:32 PM   #55 
     - I had to use the ol' ignore feature.  Bluebear   May-21-10 08:32 PM   #73 
  - The problem is that Obama promised immigration reform on his first year in office  lunamagica   May-20-10 07:16 PM   #43 
  - Perhaps increased deportation is part of his reform, otherwise, it's Congress that  Better Today   May-20-10 07:53 PM   #45 
     - Then he shouldn't have promised something he knew he couldn't deliver n/t  lunamagica   May-20-10 09:05 PM   #49 
  - At what cost are we going to do this?  NYC Liberal   May-20-10 08:00 PM   #46 
     - +  Bluebear   May-20-10 08:42 PM   #47 
     - Well, unless you plan on having 100% open borders, those costs must be incurred.  Better Today   May-21-10 03:19 PM   #56 
     - false dichotomy  William Z. Foster   May-21-10 06:44 PM   #65 
     - I am not willing to cede any civil rights, nor should anyone else.  NYC Liberal   May-22-10 10:44 AM   #140 
     - So we should secure the border first, then grant blanket amnesty to those already here?  guruoo   May-21-10 10:30 PM   #112 
  - Sad n/t  Catherina   May-20-10 04:52 PM   #34 
  - Why do I even bother voting.  glen123098   May-20-10 05:49 PM   #41 
  - Oh yeah, nothing wrong with separating a little girl from her mother...  nomorenomore08   May-20-10 05:58 PM   #42 
  - So Bush didn't do his job and President Obama doing his is bad?  ProSense   May-20-10 07:40 PM   #44 
  - maybe the worst betrayal of any  William Z. Foster   May-20-10 09:00 PM   #48 
  - Quite a rant, wzf.  Bluebear   May-21-10 01:55 AM   #50 
  - I hear ya. I thinks it's slightly better though.  upi402   May-21-10 02:00 AM   #51 
     - well,...  William Z. Foster   May-21-10 11:54 AM   #53 
        - "paramilitary swat teams ...rounding people up" ?  upi402   May-21-10 12:13 PM   #54 
        - you have to be kidding  William Z. Foster   May-21-10 06:31 PM   #63 
        - your request was vague  William Z. Foster   May-21-10 11:15 PM   #129 
        - Are there millions of paramilitary swat teams?  Confusious   May-21-10 03:53 PM   #58 
        - can't tell with you, either  William Z. Foster   May-21-10 06:39 PM   #64 
           - Sure, show me some links  Confusious   May-21-10 07:02 PM   #66 
              - don't really know what you are talking about  William Z. Foster   May-21-10 07:41 PM   #69 
              - links  William Z. Foster   May-21-10 10:05 PM   #101 
        - I will post a few things  William Z. Foster   May-21-10 08:20 PM   #71 
        - the ACLU  William Z. Foster   May-21-10 08:37 PM   #75 
        - Racial Profiling  William Z. Foster   May-21-10 08:42 PM   #77 
        - Immigration Myths and Facts  William Z. Foster   May-21-10 09:09 PM   #81 
        - Reform, on Ice  William Z. Foster   May-21-10 09:16 PM   #82 
        - U.S. Border Enforcement Prioritizes Non-Violent Migrants Over Dangerous Criminals  William Z. Foster   May-21-10 09:22 PM   #83 
        - Enforcement Gone Wild  William Z. Foster   May-21-10 09:24 PM   #84 
        - Memo to President Obama and Congress  William Z. Foster   May-21-10 09:30 PM   #86 
        - Obama continues brutal immigrant detention policies  William Z. Foster   May-21-10 09:33 PM   #88 
        - Human Rights Watch  William Z. Foster   May-21-10 09:36 PM   #89 
        - Immigration Program Expands, Despite Abuse Record  William Z. Foster   May-21-10 09:47 PM   #92 
        - Whoa! Amazing research data provided.  ShortnFiery   May-21-10 10:00 PM   #97 
           - you made my evening  William Z. Foster   May-21-10 10:03 PM   #99 
              - You're most welcome.  ShortnFiery   May-21-10 10:21 PM   #106 
                 - yeah  William Z. Foster   May-21-10 11:57 PM   #134 
        - Troubling record of sexual abuse in immigrant detention centers  William Z. Foster   May-21-10 09:51 PM   #94 
        - Immigrant Children Beaten in Detention  William Z. Foster   May-21-10 09:54 PM   #95 
        - Prison for Immigrant Children  William Z. Foster   May-21-10 09:57 PM   #96 
        - Detained immigrant children face legal maze  William Z. Foster   May-21-10 10:01 PM   #98 
        - The Big Business of Family Detention  William Z. Foster   May-21-10 10:04 PM   #100 
        - Mass Firings, The New Face of Immigration Raids  William Z. Foster   May-21-10 10:18 PM   #104 
        - Dignity, Not Detention  William Z. Foster   May-21-10 10:27 PM   #110 
           - Good job, William.n/t  EFerrari   May-21-10 10:58 PM   #120 
           - Thank you for all your hard work, WIlliam.  Bluebear   May-22-10 02:43 PM   #145 
  - That's an oversimplified way of looking at it  treestar   May-21-10 04:04 PM   #60 
  - thought you were an ally?  William Z. Foster   May-21-10 08:22 PM   #72 
     - I'm just saying the law now is such that if people are deportable, there is  treestar   May-22-10 12:17 PM   #141 
        - yes there is  William Z. Foster   May-22-10 04:03 PM   #152 
  - I can't help but notice the 2009 and 2010 numbers are from different sources...  Barack_America   May-21-10 04:32 PM   #62 
  - And?  Bluebear   May-21-10 07:40 PM   #68 
  - May not be based on the same method of calculating the numbers, for one.  Barack_America   May-21-10 08:48 PM   #78 
     - Gotcha, certainly 2010 is just a "goal" that the government has set for this year  Bluebear   May-21-10 08:56 PM   #80 
        - No, you are missing the point which makes your comparison chart  johnaries   May-21-10 09:29 PM   #85 
           - enough  William Z. Foster   May-21-10 09:40 PM   #90 
           - I found this about San Francisco. ICE is going to have an uphill battle here.  EFerrari   May-21-10 11:06 PM   #126 
           - Well, it's not "my" chart, so march right over to their site & tell them they have ulterior motives  Bluebear   May-21-10 09:40 PM   #91 
              - But you used the chart as the basis of your OP.  johnaries   May-22-10 12:13 AM   #135 
  - let's dig in  William Z. Foster   May-21-10 08:54 PM   #79 
     - That's fair.But misleading and invalid charts only obscure the issue.  johnaries   May-21-10 09:33 PM   #87 
        - huh  William Z. Foster   May-21-10 09:49 PM   #93 
           - Sadly, if the "authorities" are now only locking up undocumented or past visa immigrants,  ShortnFiery   May-21-10 10:09 PM   #102 
           - Charts have an emotional impact. They can be used to great effect  johnaries   May-21-10 10:17 PM   #103 
              - so do talking points  William Z. Foster   May-21-10 10:19 PM   #105 
              - Good luck with that one. nt  Bluebear   May-21-10 10:27 PM   #109 
              - You have a hell of a nerve, I will give you that. /ignore  Bluebear   May-21-10 10:21 PM   #107 
                 - "Nerve"? Really? Because I seek the Truth?  johnaries   May-21-10 10:25 PM   #108 
                    - we are trying to do our homework  William Z. Foster   May-21-10 10:29 PM   #111 
                       - ? ??? "Nitpicking"? It's a LIE. I'm trying to help you w/homework.  johnaries   May-21-10 10:45 PM   #116 
                          - it is not a lie  William Z. Foster   May-21-10 11:03 PM   #125 
                             - If the data is not accurate, it is a LIE. Period.  johnaries   May-21-10 11:16 PM   #130 
                                - this data?  William Z. Foster   May-22-10 12:28 AM   #136 
                                   - Why should I believe that? Where did those figures come from?  johnaries   May-22-10 12:53 AM   #137 
                                      - then don't  William Z. Foster   May-22-10 04:18 PM   #153 
  - what was she challenging her..  butterfly77   May-21-10 10:36 PM   #113 
  - Oh yeah I forgot, the President has NO say in legislation, right?  Bluebear   May-21-10 10:48 PM   #117 
  - Oh, I guess that question can 't be asked..  butterfly77   May-23-10 10:57 AM   #156 
  - Damn kids always bringing up stuff we don't want to talk about.  EFerrari   May-21-10 10:57 PM   #119 
     - Como se dice "pipe down, kid" en espagnol?  Bluebear   May-21-10 10:59 PM   #122 
     - Caillese! = KAI -eh-seh  EFerrari   May-21-10 11:02 PM   #124 
     - Yeah, you kids seem to think that..  butterfly77   May-23-10 11:06 AM   #157 
  - no charts here  William Z. Foster   May-21-10 10:40 PM   #114 
  - Immigrant advocates say immigration enforcement worse under Obama  William Z. Foster   May-21-10 10:55 PM   #118 
  - Republicans Wanted  William Z. Foster   May-21-10 10:58 PM   #121 
  - Immigration Raids Tear Families Apart Again  William Z. Foster   May-21-10 11:01 PM   #123 
  - a challenge  William Z. Foster   May-21-10 11:12 PM   #127 
  - Nothing wrong with enforcing existing laws on the books  bluestateguy   May-21-10 11:13 PM   #128 
  - not the issue  William Z. Foster   May-21-10 11:17 PM   #131 
  - There is the legal argument "as enforced",  johnaries   May-21-10 11:35 PM   #132 
  - Treating working people like stray dogs is wrong, no matter how it's justified. n/t  EFerrari   May-22-10 02:46 PM   #147 
  - This needs to STOP. NOW.  Unvanguard   May-21-10 11:55 PM   #133 
  - +1  Swamp Rat   May-22-10 02:44 PM   #146 
  - It looks like NON-criminal deportations are DOWN this year  Common Sense Party   May-22-10 12:59 AM   #138 
  - Well, that isn't the case.  EFerrari   May-22-10 02:48 PM   #148 
  - Your Links are Illuminating.  Mojeoux   May-22-10 01:37 AM   #139 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   May-22-10 03:01 PM   #149 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   May-22-10 03:06 PM   #150 
  - k&r  LWolf   May-22-10 07:25 PM   #155 
 

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