muriel_volestrangler
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Mon May-07-07 07:05 AM
Response to Reply #30 |
| 36. It also depends on what you define 'communism' as |
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Is it the original theory, almost utopian, that ownership of anything more than your personal belongings would be done away with, and everyone would work "from each according to their abilities, to each according to their needs" - and that this would be a worldwide movement, so that the idea of countries that could go to war would disappear? Or is it what happened in practice when 'communist parties' were in control of countries, such as the USSR or China under Mao? The latter situation is worth avoiding; the former sounds nice, but I've never seen how we get there from here, and it may be ignoring a certain amount of inate human behaviour.
The blurring between 'communism' and 'socialism' was helped by the USSR - after all, that was the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, with the Communist Party in charge.
The dividing line needs to be drawn between democratic socialism, where fairly (and regularly) elected politicians can direct the economy, and write laws, for the general good, with checks and balances; and authoritarian socialism, where someone in charge (whether initially through democracy or through force) gets to direct the economy and legislation without any restraint, and gets to stay in power and appoint their successors - and even if they think they are doing it for the sake of the people, pretty soon they won't be.
|
| -The Century and a Half War against Socialism in the United States |
Time for change |
May-06-07 08:22 PM |
#0 |
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Bookmarked. |
silverweb |
May-06-07 08:24 PM |
#1 |
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As industry and jobs started to flow out of the US in the late 70s.... |
Junkdrawer |
May-06-07 08:36 PM |
#2 |
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"Morning in America" |
Time for change |
May-07-07 11:47 AM |
#51 |
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THIS IS A MUST READ. |
lildreamer316 |
May-06-07 08:38 PM |
#3 |
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K&R bookmarked! |
druidity33 |
May-06-07 08:39 PM |
#4 |
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Excellent - b'marked, k/r |
katsy |
May-06-07 08:40 PM |
#5 |
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K&R-- I agree, this is a must read post.... |
mike_c |
May-06-07 08:42 PM |
#6 |
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An Excellent Piece, Sir! |
The Magistrate |
May-06-07 08:45 PM |
#7 |
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k+r |
Progs Rock |
May-06-07 09:00 PM |
#8 |
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Excellent - I suggest you post your thoughts on other sites - indeed can we |
papau |
May-06-07 09:01 PM |
#9 |
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Thank you -- you most certainly can |
Time for change |
May-07-07 01:13 AM |
#23 |
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K&R |
sgcase |
May-06-07 09:06 PM |
#10 |
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k&r! |
me b zola |
May-06-07 09:10 PM |
#11 |
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Splendid! Thank you for posting this; it expresses what I think |
Glorfindel |
May-06-07 09:14 PM |
#12 |
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Thank you -- I strongly believe that |
Time for change |
May-07-07 12:38 PM |
#54 |
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Good work. |
Canuckistanian |
May-06-07 09:32 PM |
#13 |
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They can ignore history because most Americans are ignorant... |
rfranklin |
May-07-07 05:55 AM |
#31 |
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The idiots in charge now don't give a damn about history |
Time for change |
May-07-07 02:30 PM |
#62 |
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Excellent! Thank you!! k/r |
Beam Me Up |
May-06-07 09:57 PM |
#14 |
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Haymarket was in 1886 |
AnnieBW |
May-06-07 10:06 PM |
#15 |
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Right, thank you |
Time for change |
May-07-07 01:13 AM |
#24 |
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and then, around the turn of the century... |
tomp |
May-06-07 10:27 PM |
#16 |
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Saved. |
cagoldensun5050 |
May-06-07 10:35 PM |
#17 |
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Wow...what a great post. |
Forkboy |
May-06-07 10:36 PM |
#18 |
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Thank you very much |
Time for change |
May-07-07 03:21 PM |
#65 |
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I've already absorbed a good chunk of it. |
Forkboy |
May-07-07 03:31 PM |
#66 |
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The Democratic Party has largely been complicit in the war due to its silence when... |
Selatius |
May-06-07 10:44 PM |
#19 |
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They have basterdized the education system so well that.......... |
nolabels |
May-07-07 06:14 AM |
#33 |
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That's right |
Time for change |
May-07-07 04:06 PM |
#67 |
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I like Castro. I mean, if we have to live under a dictator why not one that |
followthemoney |
May-07-07 07:44 PM |
#81 |
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Why give up the Bill of Rights to obtain an Economic Bill of Rights? n/t |
Selatius |
May-08-07 12:49 AM |
#89 |
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We must not forget our roots. Back in the early days of the "war on socialism" |
greyhound1966 |
May-08-07 04:21 AM |
#96 |
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Thanks for the opus |
november3rd |
May-06-07 11:39 PM |
#20 |
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Good piece. But the system we have in place today is fascism more than capitalism. |
PinkyisBlue |
May-06-07 11:49 PM |
#21 |
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Yes, I agree, we are rapidly heading towards fascism |
Time for change |
May-07-07 01:24 AM |
#25 |
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I agree with everything you said in the post. |
PinkyisBlue |
May-07-07 08:26 AM |
#40 |
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The media laughs and mocks anyone that equates what is happening w/ fascism. |
loudsue |
May-07-07 10:01 AM |
#45 |
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Symbolism is one of the main tools for Fascist movements |
lefador |
May-07-07 10:13 AM |
#46 |
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Interesting info on the use of symbolism in political discourse. |
PinkyisBlue |
May-07-07 08:03 PM |
#82 |
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Thank you -- Those are good points |
Time for change |
May-07-07 12:49 PM |
#56 |
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I do like how some of the Democrats are fighting back against the media. |
PinkyisBlue |
May-07-07 08:20 PM |
#84 |
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Very nice list |
Time for change |
May-07-07 08:39 PM |
#86 |
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Russert unfortunately never sets himself up to be attacked |
Hippo_Tron |
May-08-07 03:58 AM |
#94 |
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Actually, Russert did state it as his own opinion, I'm pretty sure |
Time for change |
May-08-07 01:45 PM |
#100 |
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Sligthly off topic |
ProudDad |
May-07-07 01:47 PM |
#59 |
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Another Beauty! Recommended. |
Mojambo |
May-07-07 12:26 AM |
#22 |
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A fascinating insight - over here we know little of this |
intaglio |
May-07-07 02:32 AM |
#26 |
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You continue to |
BushDespiser12 |
May-07-07 02:39 AM |
#27 |
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K & R, Bookmarked n/t |
Raksha |
May-07-07 02:48 AM |
#28 |
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Well! Since St. Ronnie eradicated Communism when the USSR |
annabanana |
May-07-07 05:22 AM |
#29 |
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The right has so blurred the terms "socialism" and "communism".. |
ClintonTyree |
May-07-07 05:51 AM |
#30 |
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It also depends on what you define 'communism' as |
muriel_volestrangler |
May-07-07 07:05 AM |
#36 |
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Actually your beef is with Marx |
dmesg |
May-07-07 07:50 AM |
#39 |
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Huh? Marx was pretty clear about Socialism vs. Communism |
lefador |
May-07-07 09:47 AM |
#44 |
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I've only seen him use them interchangeably |
dmesg |
May-07-07 01:13 PM |
#57 |
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The destruction of the public transportation system in the US |
formercia |
May-07-07 05:56 AM |
#32 |
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Ironically the 1% always use the "class warfare" rethoric with impunity |
lefador |
May-07-07 10:31 AM |
#48 |
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And another big reason why the average GOP voter votes against his interests |
Time for change |
May-07-07 07:22 PM |
#79 |
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You've hit on one of my hobby horses |
nxylas |
May-07-07 01:27 PM |
#58 |
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Didn't you know? |
formercia |
May-07-07 03:21 PM |
#64 |
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That's another terrible shame |
Time for change |
May-07-07 04:49 PM |
#70 |
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Brilliant!!! |
Karenina |
May-07-07 06:22 AM |
#34 |
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K&R...and bookmarked...n/t |
ms liberty |
May-07-07 06:59 AM |
#35 |
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K&R n/t |
unpossibles |
May-07-07 07:17 AM |
#37 |
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Thank you! This is my general understanding of socialism in America |
deutsey |
May-07-07 07:35 AM |
#38 |
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Yes, I believe you're right about that |
Time for change |
May-07-07 05:25 PM |
#71 |
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I was also referring to the murders of Blank Panther leaders and |
deutsey |
May-08-07 05:15 AM |
#97 |
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To me you don't sound like a crackpot at all |
Time for change |
May-08-07 02:02 PM |
#101 |
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K & R and bookmarked |
Cerridwen |
May-07-07 08:32 AM |
#41 |
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Hey, great post. |
RandomKoolzip |
May-07-07 08:50 AM |
#42 |
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Nice analysis. Thanks. Also... |
warren pease |
May-07-07 09:22 AM |
#43 |
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Yep, I couldn't agree more |
Time for change |
May-07-07 05:55 PM |
#73 |
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K & R! |
TheGoldenRule |
May-07-07 10:17 AM |
#47 |
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A call for the Democrats to fight for working people |
mdmc |
May-07-07 10:51 AM |
#49 |
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Sounds as if the moguls of big-business consider that, as far as their employees are concerned, |
KCabotDullesMarxIII |
May-07-07 11:17 AM |
#50 |
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Most Americans want some socialism, they just don't want it to be called that. |
milkyway |
May-07-07 12:03 PM |
#52 |
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I thought it was a terrific laugh when Michael Moore parked a great, long, shiny, bright-red, |
KCabotDullesMarxIII |
May-07-07 04:45 PM |
#69 |
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Bookmarked! Thanks. n/t |
LeahD |
May-07-07 12:08 PM |
#53 |
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is john mcCain willing to give up his socialized health care paid for |
28erl |
May-07-07 12:44 PM |
#55 |
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Well done and laid out |
ProudDad |
May-07-07 01:52 PM |
#60 |
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Thank you -- A return to FDR would be a great first step |
Time for change |
May-07-07 07:40 PM |
#80 |
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Excellent and thank you. n/t |
slipslidingaway |
May-07-07 02:27 PM |
#61 |
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I will add one observation to this |
nadinbrzezinski |
May-07-07 02:37 PM |
#63 |
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One son-of-a-bitch ran this country back then... |
happydreams |
May-07-07 04:17 PM |
#68 |
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As I recall Teddy Roosevelt stood up to JP Morgan |
Hippo_Tron |
May-08-07 03:46 AM |
#93 |
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It is one of the grossest distortions in history. T R was a bought |
happydreams |
May-08-07 03:27 PM |
#105 |
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I still don't see the connection |
Hippo_Tron |
May-09-07 02:18 AM |
#110 |
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Book: "How Wall Street created and Nation. ".... |
happydreams |
May-08-07 03:44 PM |
#106 |
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Great post |
malaise |
May-07-07 05:26 PM |
#72 |
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My dad was a union organizer |
Perragrande |
May-07-07 06:04 PM |
#74 |
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I guess that says it all |
Time for change |
May-07-07 06:31 PM |
#75 |
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Excellent post TFC and an affirmation. . . |
Lena inRI |
May-07-07 06:42 PM |
#76 |
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Thank you Lena - I'm hoping |
Time for change |
May-07-07 07:12 PM |
#77 |
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Yeah . . .but Edwards is a newbie progressive. . . |
Lena inRI |
May-07-07 08:52 PM |
#88 |
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You realize the working people took it in the chin |
nadinbrzezinski |
May-07-07 07:16 PM |
#78 |
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You're correct, Nadin, if. . . |
Lena inRI |
May-07-07 08:08 PM |
#83 |
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I hate to tell you this |
nadinbrzezinski |
May-09-07 02:32 AM |
#111 |
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Best - Post - Ever |
Useless in FL |
May-07-07 08:20 PM |
#85 |
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Thank you very much |
Time for change |
May-07-07 08:41 PM |
#87 |
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brilliant... |
Blue_Tires |
May-08-07 01:24 AM |
#90 |
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Excellent essay. |
Vidar |
May-08-07 03:28 AM |
#91 |
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Dang. Can't recommend - past the time. |
demobabe |
May-08-07 03:36 AM |
#92 |
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Thank you -- I've already done that |
Time for change |
May-08-07 02:07 PM |
#103 |
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Very good piece, too late to recommend but it's hardly necessary. |
greyhound1966 |
May-08-07 04:09 AM |
#95 |
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Thank you |
Time for change |
May-08-07 02:06 PM |
#102 |
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Firstly, you are welcome. Secondly, I in no way mean to imply any criticism of you, |
greyhound1966 |
May-08-07 05:57 PM |
#107 |
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Thank you greyhound |
Time for change |
May-08-07 06:35 PM |
#108 |
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GREAT thread |
bobbie |
May-08-07 10:29 AM |
#98 |
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Really great write up Time for change |
bobbie |
May-08-07 10:44 AM |
#99 |
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Thank you bobbie -- regarding McCarthy |
Time for change |
May-08-07 02:12 PM |
#104 |
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Great post! |
JanMichael |
May-08-07 06:38 PM |
#109 |
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unite |
mdmc |
May-12-07 09:24 AM |
#112 |
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While I agree that socialism isn't the "enemy" our government makes it out to be... |
porphyrian |
May-12-07 09:38 AM |
#113 |
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another good essay |
hfojvt |
May-12-07 08:59 PM |
#114 |
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Sunday kick! |
Karenina |
May-13-07 08:18 AM |
#115 |
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Thank you hfojvt |
Time for change |
May-15-07 03:29 PM |
#118 |
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a few disagreements about Haymarket and Debs |
hfojvt |
May-13-07 01:00 PM |
#116 |
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kicked |
KYDEM |
May-14-07 12:09 AM |
#117 |
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Thank you for all the additional info |
Time for change |
May-15-07 03:40 PM |
#119 |
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You know what I think it is? |
Bornaginhooligan |
May-15-07 03:42 PM |
#120 |
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A really fabulous thread |
malaise |
May-15-07 03:54 PM |
#121 |