|
Edited on Fri May-14-10 06:23 PM by William Z. Foster
The wealth in Detroit was generated by the workers.
New factories were built by management on the outskirts, from the very beginning, to escape taxation. "There is no way this or that could have been built in Detroit" you say. The facilities were built in Detroit, in the Detroit area, they were merely built outside of the political control of the workers, that is all.
Overcrowding at the end of the war was a function of the war economy and troops returning home.
Yes, the moving of the tax base outside of the borders of the political control of the city, and the fragmentation of the workers into suburban enclaves - playing on racial fears and holding out promises of a better life - most certainly drained the wealth out of the city, away from the workers, and into the hands of the few. Of course. That there should be any controversy about this is a relatively modern thing, and the fact that Democrats are parroting the management line is new and disturbing, as well. Middle management types from the industry in the 50's and 60's were less right wing than many Democrats are today about this, and less in denial about it.
How did the bastion of organized Labor become so reactionary and pro-management?
|
| -Detroit's Robert Bobb wins, school district loses. School closures full speed ahead. |
madfloridian |
May-08-10 01:15 PM |
#0 |
-
When people realize what is happening, it will be too late. |
Catshrink |
May-08-10 01:32 PM |
#1 |
 -
You are right. Teachers are not usually confrontational. |
madfloridian |
May-08-10 09:58 PM |
#11 |
 -
also because the "powerful teachers' unions" as the new york times calls them, |
Hannah Bell |
May-12-10 06:14 AM |
#22 |
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What happens when one quarter of the people leave a city? |
Taitertots |
May-08-10 01:32 PM |
#2 |
 -
But does that mean it must be sold off to private corporations? |
Catshrink |
May-08-10 01:34 PM |
#4 |
 -
All districts face that. You don't close and privatize...you adjust. |
madfloridian |
May-08-10 01:36 PM |
#5 |
  -
Ummm... The charter schools in Detroit are nonprofits |
LuckyTheDog |
May-13-10 07:36 PM |
#81 |
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You do some research and get back to me. |
madfloridian |
May-15-10 12:35 AM |
#119 |
  -
So, which Detroit charter schools are owned by for-profit companies? |
LuckyTheDog |
May-16-10 11:21 PM |
#152 |
 -
what is "owned" besides the name? |
Hannah Bell |
May-17-10 12:48 PM |
#176 |
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Owned means owned |
LuckyTheDog |
May-17-10 01:44 PM |
#181 |
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what, precisely, is "owned"? you keep avoiding the question. |
Hannah Bell |
May-17-10 02:22 PM |
#183 |
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In the case of the schools I have visited |
LuckyTheDog |
May-17-10 02:35 PM |
#185 |
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great, so we apparently agree that owning or controlling the facilities & controlling hiring & |
Hannah Bell |
May-17-10 02:49 PM |
#187 |
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I don't have specific knowledge... |
LuckyTheDog |
May-17-10 02:55 PM |
#189 |
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No, the city contracts management of ALL public schools to private management. |
Hannah Bell |
May-17-10 03:34 PM |
#193 |
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And that article was wrong |
LuckyTheDog |
May-17-10 07:47 PM |
#197 |
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you posted misinformation when you said i said dte runs a school. |
Hannah Bell |
May-17-10 09:39 PM |
#199 |
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Ummm... |
LuckyTheDog |
May-18-10 02:31 PM |
#201 |
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about 75% of charter schools in michigan are run by for-profit EMOs. |
Hannah Bell |
May-15-10 03:51 AM |
#125 |
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I repeat: The charter schools in Detroit are owned by nonprofits |
LuckyTheDog |
May-16-10 11:18 PM |
#151 |
  -
just *what* is "owned"? the management companies own e.g. buildings & curriculum. |
Hannah Bell |
May-17-10 03:08 AM |
#160 |
   -
Nope. That is just plain wrong. |
LuckyTheDog |
May-17-10 08:16 AM |
#166 |
  -
in name only. |
Hannah Bell |
May-17-10 12:47 PM |
#175 |
  -
Once again |
LuckyTheDog |
May-17-10 12:59 PM |
#178 |
  -
I have never stated that the charter of any school is owned by a for-profit company. |
Hannah Bell |
May-17-10 01:23 PM |
#179 |
  -
Well... except the charter schools I know about don't work that way |
LuckyTheDog |
May-17-10 01:42 PM |
#180 |
  -
I linked you to 11 charter schools being run this way by the same for-profit company, |
Hannah Bell |
May-17-10 01:47 PM |
#182 |
  -
So, you don't really have specific knowledge of Detroit charter schools |
LuckyTheDog |
May-17-10 02:25 PM |
#184 |
  -
ah, but you see, they cannot simply "cancel the contract". because there's |
Hannah Bell |
May-17-10 02:45 PM |
#186 |
  -
All that depends on the terms of the contract |
LuckyTheDog |
May-17-10 02:57 PM |
#190 |
  -
uh, excuse me, public schools did not traditionally enter into contracts |
Hannah Bell |
May-17-10 03:06 PM |
#191 |
  -
DPS has THOUSANDS of private vendors |
LuckyTheDog |
May-17-10 03:08 PM |
#192 |
  -
you continue to misrepresent my posts, my position, & the facts. |
Hannah Bell |
May-17-10 10:08 PM |
#200 |
  -
Are you that superfluous that you think "non-profit" = no profits? |
Doremus |
May-18-10 06:50 PM |
#203 |
 -
Also.. did you read that whole page you linked to? |
LuckyTheDog |
May-16-10 11:40 PM |
#153 |
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Yes; that's the standard dodge. But again, I ask, what is "owned"? |
Hannah Bell |
May-17-10 04:11 AM |
#161 |
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So, they outsource stuff |
LuckyTheDog |
May-17-10 08:21 AM |
#167 |
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They outsource EVERYTHING. |
Hannah Bell |
May-17-10 12:44 PM |
#174 |
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More like 60% |
Gaedel |
May-12-10 03:58 PM |
#33 |
  -
not according to the census. pg 38, table 27: 912,000 |
Hannah Bell |
May-15-10 04:26 AM |
#129 |
  -
arbitrary and meaningless |
William Z. Foster |
May-15-10 12:53 PM |
#136 |
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nonsense, utter nonsense |
William Z. Foster |
May-14-10 05:39 PM |
#92 |
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This trend has me reassessing my views on homeschooling. nt |
eilen |
May-08-10 01:33 PM |
#3 |
 -
It's like a movement hurtling forward with no one to stop it. |
madfloridian |
May-08-10 05:38 PM |
#7 |
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Houghton Mifflin Harcourt now embedding workers in Detroit school system. |
madfloridian |
May-08-10 03:35 PM |
#6 |
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Teachers will become drones reading a script. |
Catshrink |
May-09-10 12:53 AM |
#14 |
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Bobb is returning TFA to Detroit, even while experienced teachers laid off. |
madfloridian |
May-08-10 07:54 PM |
#8 |
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kick. |
Starry Messenger |
May-08-10 08:14 PM |
#9 |
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Yes. "These large foundations are like a juggernaut that can not be stopped." |
madfloridian |
May-08-10 08:35 PM |
#10 |
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They want to end the world it seems, what can you do. |
RandomThoughts |
May-08-10 10:01 PM |
#12 |
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We have to at least try. |
madfloridian |
May-09-10 12:36 AM |
#13 |
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It truly is. |
Dappleganger |
May-12-10 03:21 PM |
#30 |
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And THIS is why Repubs hate unions: Unions stand in the way of laissez-faire. |
WinkyDink |
May-12-10 04:52 PM |
#45 |
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Bob Bobb? |
gmoney |
May-09-10 12:56 AM |
#15 |
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It's Robert Bobb. n/t |
Fire1 |
May-09-10 08:54 PM |
#19 |
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I voted for Bob Roberts back in '92! |
Blue_Tires |
May-12-10 03:25 PM |
#31 |
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Mi Court of Appeals? Good old.... here you go- it is a perversion to be sure. |
n.michigan |
May-09-10 02:01 AM |
#16 |
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The union has mostly worked with Granholm.... |
madfloridian |
May-09-10 07:55 AM |
#17 |
  -
Time for teachers to file a lawsuit against the unions and RTTBottom dictates-a RICO? |
n.michigan |
May-09-10 11:13 AM |
#18 |
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"Where is that f-ing union" = my question too. |
Hannah Bell |
May-15-10 03:57 AM |
#127 |
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Interesting... |
dreamnightwind |
May-10-10 09:45 PM |
#20 |
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yes, he is. an operative for capital. as are most of the school "reformers". |
Hannah Bell |
May-12-10 03:06 PM |
#27 |
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Detroit resident here |
LuckyTheDog |
May-12-10 05:52 AM |
#21 |
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and others who live there feel differently. and the fact that someone doesn't live somewhere |
Hannah Bell |
May-12-10 06:17 AM |
#23 |
  -
It's not a conspiracy |
LuckyTheDog |
May-12-10 01:25 PM |
#24 |
   -
Never let a good crisis go to waste. |
madfloridian |
May-12-10 01:29 PM |
#25 |
    -
Yeah, I read "The Shock Doctrine," too |
LuckyTheDog |
May-12-10 02:50 PM |
#26 |
   -
foundations are the tax-free investment & policy-making arms of the ruling class. |
Hannah Bell |
May-12-10 03:16 PM |
#29 |
    -
Foundations = philanthropy |
LuckyTheDog |
May-12-10 05:37 PM |
#48 |
   -
um, foundations = tax-free investment funds & policy arms controlled by the top 1% |
Hannah Bell |
May-12-10 10:30 PM |
#56 |
   -
Their motives are not always pristine, sure, that's clear... |
LuckyTheDog |
May-13-10 09:31 AM |
#62 |
   -
any good work they do for others is incidental to the good work they do for themselves, |
Hannah Bell |
May-13-10 12:37 PM |
#66 |
   -
You don't know much about foundations (nt) |
LuckyTheDog |
May-13-10 03:38 PM |
#77 |
   -
a lot more than you, apparently. |
Hannah Bell |
May-15-10 03:11 AM |
#123 |
   -
Yeah, it is the "shock doctrine" of education. Lois Weiner tells the truth about it. |
tonysam |
May-12-10 03:51 PM |
#32 |
   -
These groups are taking over our public schools. It is not okay. |
madfloridian |
May-12-10 04:08 PM |
#34 |
   -
You are painting with a broad brush |
LuckyTheDog |
May-12-10 05:34 PM |
#47 |
   -
It is not just Detroit. It is all over the country. |
madfloridian |
May-12-10 05:55 PM |
#49 |
    -
All situations and communities are different |
LuckyTheDog |
May-12-10 06:10 PM |
#52 |
   -
The policies are the problem. It is a national problem now. |
madfloridian |
May-12-10 06:57 PM |
#55 |
   -
bullshit |
William Z. Foster |
May-14-10 04:27 PM |
#83 |
    -
Crushing of the unions? |
blue_onyx |
May-14-10 05:55 PM |
#95 |
   -
LOL |
William Z. Foster |
May-14-10 06:08 PM |
#96 |
   -
She's been using that line for ages now. |
madfloridian |
May-15-10 12:34 AM |
#118 |
   -
Lucky...... |
Gaedel |
May-14-10 05:53 PM |
#93 |
   -
The policy & the money funding it is THE SAME, in Detroit, in Los Angeles, in New York, |
Hannah Bell |
May-15-10 02:46 AM |
#121 |
   -
are you guys in the "broad brush" club or something? seems to be your |
Hannah Bell |
May-15-10 02:44 AM |
#120 |
   -
it *is* a conspiracy. |
Hannah Bell |
May-12-10 03:07 PM |
#28 |
   -
I agree. It may be the only way to get people to move |
sufrommich |
May-12-10 04:19 PM |
#38 |
  -
that's not the conspiracy i'm talking about. |
Hannah Bell |
May-12-10 11:09 PM |
#59 |
  -
that is not what happened |
William Z. Foster |
May-15-10 12:04 PM |
#133 |
  -
OK, but it's 2010... what do we do now? |
LuckyTheDog |
May-15-10 06:21 PM |
#141 |
  -
"we" who? |
William Z. Foster |
May-15-10 09:56 PM |
#144 |
   -
Re-read your post |
LuckyTheDog |
May-17-10 12:03 AM |
#156 |
  -
right |
William Z. Foster |
May-17-10 12:15 AM |
#157 |
  -
WTF are you talking about? |
LuckyTheDog |
May-17-10 08:28 AM |
#169 |
  -
fine |
William Z. Foster |
May-17-10 04:54 PM |
#195 |
  -
"doing nothing" only an option when it's poor black people carrying the burden |
Hannah Bell |
May-16-10 11:17 AM |
#147 |
  -
No. Doing nothing is NOT and option. |
LuckyTheDog |
May-16-10 05:21 PM |
#148 |
  -
they've been "doing nothing" for decades. suddenly it's not an option because *you're* on the scene? |
Hannah Bell |
May-16-10 06:27 PM |
#149 |
  -
Ummm.... so you really have no ideas? |
LuckyTheDog |
May-16-10 11:06 PM |
#150 |
   -
I have plenty of ideas. It's not like if i waste my time telling you about them they're |
Hannah Bell |
May-17-10 04:14 AM |
#162 |
  -
Ummm |
LuckyTheDog |
May-17-10 08:33 AM |
#171 |
  -
I was not wrong |
LuckyTheDog |
May-16-10 11:59 PM |
#155 |
  -
75% of michigan charters are managed for-profit, but all those in detroit are non-profit? |
Hannah Bell |
May-17-10 03:02 AM |
#159 |
   -
Please name the Detroit charters owned by for-profits |
LuckyTheDog |
May-17-10 08:15 AM |
#165 |
  -
i've claimed that 75% of michigan charters are managed for-profit, |
Hannah Bell |
May-17-10 09:33 PM |
#198 |
  -
what are you arguing about? |
William Z. Foster |
May-17-10 04:56 PM |
#196 |
  -
I have a problem with... |
LuckyTheDog |
May-18-10 04:56 PM |
#202 |
  -
You've been stunningly wrong wrt to Detroit though. It's OK if you don't live here and have INSIGHT. |
Romulox |
May-12-10 04:12 PM |
#36 |
 -
I'm a former resident of Oakland under Bobb's tenure here. |
Starry Messenger |
May-12-10 04:24 PM |
#39 |
  -
The poster in question has offered nothing but *characterizations*, no facts. |
Romulox |
May-12-10 04:32 PM |
#40 |
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Google "Hantz Farms" |
Starry Messenger |
May-12-10 04:39 PM |
#41 |
  -
According to the Free Press, Mayor Bing opposes the Hantz Farms project |
Romulox |
May-12-10 04:45 PM |
#42 |
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The Fair Grounds is not their only proposal. |
Starry Messenger |
May-12-10 04:48 PM |
#43 |
  -
Stop. Read. THEN lecture! |
Romulox |
May-12-10 04:50 PM |
#44 |
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I've been following this story for months. |
Starry Messenger |
May-12-10 04:58 PM |
#46 |
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Your problem with urban farming is what? |
LuckyTheDog |
May-12-10 05:59 PM |
#50 |
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Did I say I had a problem with it? |
Starry Messenger |
May-12-10 06:03 PM |
#51 |
  -
Ya know what... |
LuckyTheDog |
May-12-10 06:17 PM |
#53 |
 -
I'm just telling you what I'm reading. |
Starry Messenger |
May-12-10 06:46 PM |
#54 |
  -
I'm not sure the farm thing is a scheme |
LuckyTheDog |
May-13-10 08:36 AM |
#61 |
 -
detroit is not particularly "underpopulated" in comparison with other cities. |
Hannah Bell |
May-12-10 10:49 PM |
#58 |
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You should see the vacant land here |
LuckyTheDog |
May-13-10 08:35 AM |
#60 |
  -
via google street view, yes. |
Hannah Bell |
May-13-10 12:34 PM |
#65 |
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OK, then |
LuckyTheDog |
May-13-10 03:22 PM |
#76 |
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i said nothing like that. & whatever your personal feelings, the last i heard |
Hannah Bell |
May-14-10 04:29 PM |
#84 |
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First off, I don't think anyone will be forced to leave. |
LuckyTheDog |
May-14-10 08:10 PM |
#112 |
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well, if *you* don't think so, i'm sure it won't happen. even though the people running your city |
Hannah Bell |
May-15-10 02:57 AM |
#122 |
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City Council has not even debated this, let alone passed a plan |
LuckyTheDog |
May-15-10 06:12 PM |
#139 |
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no, their lawyer's just making the case for the plan in the media. what do you think eminent domain |
Hannah Bell |
May-16-10 11:14 AM |
#146 |
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The difference being... |
blue_onyx |
May-13-10 10:32 AM |
#63 |
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same area, more people than portland oregon. that's not "misinformation," sorry. |
Hannah Bell |
May-13-10 12:28 PM |
#64 |
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You are misinformed |
blue_onyx |
May-13-10 01:19 PM |
#68 |
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the facts are correct. so far as density goes, detroit isn't "underpopulated". |
Hannah Bell |
May-13-10 01:33 PM |
#69 |
 -
So, those tens of thousands of abandoned houses... |
LuckyTheDog |
May-13-10 07:23 PM |
#79 |
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If they're abandoned, I have no objection to the city doing whatever it wants with them, & I doubt |
Hannah Bell |
May-14-10 04:30 PM |
#85 |
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See if this will post, never tried it before..... |
Gaedel |
May-14-10 06:45 PM |
#106 |
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You are mixing 2 different issues |
LuckyTheDog |
May-14-10 08:04 PM |
#111 |
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It's nice that you "favor" that, but that's not what's happening. |
Hannah Bell |
May-15-10 03:18 AM |
#124 |
 -
No details have been passed by city council |
LuckyTheDog |
May-15-10 06:14 PM |
#140 |
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i'm not speculating when the lawyers are in the papers defending the plan. |
Hannah Bell |
May-17-10 02:51 PM |
#188 |
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other way around |
William Z. Foster |
May-15-10 01:00 PM |
#138 |
 -
oh, gosh I don't know |
William Z. Foster |
May-14-10 05:02 PM |
#90 |
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"sucked the wealth out of Detroit"???? |
Gaedel |
May-14-10 06:10 PM |
#98 |
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no |
William Z. Foster |
May-14-10 06:22 PM |
#101 |
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he doesn't oppose the project, he just doesn't like that particular site. |
Hannah Bell |
May-13-10 12:41 PM |
#67 |
 -
you're from dearborn. 1.2% black, 86% white, median household income $44K. |
Hannah Bell |
May-13-10 02:02 PM |
#71 |
 -
You can't be serious? |
blue_onyx |
May-13-10 02:20 PM |
#72 |
  -
poster chastises others for not understanding the "details" of life in detroit, but is from dearborn |
Hannah Bell |
May-13-10 02:58 PM |
#73 |
   -
YOU DON'T EVEN LIVE IN THE STATE!!!! |
blue_onyx |
May-13-10 03:13 PM |
#74 |
  -
don't like the logic when applied tp yourself, do you? |
Hannah Bell |
May-13-10 03:17 PM |
#75 |
  -
What are you talking about? |
blue_onyx |
May-13-10 03:56 PM |
#78 |
  -
Thanks for that |
LuckyTheDog |
May-13-10 07:28 PM |
#80 |
   -
The people whom Bobb is planning to dispossess for a few thousand also own homes |
Hannah Bell |
May-14-10 04:34 PM |
#87 |
  -
Where did I say people should be made homeless? |
LuckyTheDog |
May-14-10 08:14 PM |
#113 |
  -
i didn't say you did. BUT THAT'S WHAT THE PLAN IS: HOMEOWNERS WHOSE HOMES |
Hannah Bell |
May-14-10 10:40 PM |
#115 |
  -
I was applying the poster's logic. I don't endorse it, but since he first made the claim |
Hannah Bell |
May-14-10 04:32 PM |
#86 |
  -
damn suburbanites |
William Z. Foster |
May-14-10 04:36 PM |
#88 |
  -
Nonsense |
blue_onyx |
May-14-10 05:53 PM |
#94 |
  -
oh really? |
William Z. Foster |
May-14-10 06:09 PM |
#97 |
  -
Detroiter here |
William Z. Foster |
May-14-10 04:22 PM |
#82 |
 -
Nice |
blue_onyx |
May-14-10 06:18 PM |
#100 |
 -
didn't say that |
William Z. Foster |
May-14-10 06:31 PM |
#104 |
 -
Ok... |
blue_onyx |
May-14-10 06:49 PM |
#107 |
  -
look |
William Z. Foster |
May-14-10 06:59 PM |
#108 |
 -
No I don't know it |
blue_onyx |
May-14-10 07:23 PM |
#110 |
 -
racism does not go "both ways" |
William Z. Foster |
May-14-10 08:24 PM |
#114 |
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So much bullshit |
blue_onyx |
May-14-10 11:33 PM |
#116 |
 -
You would do yourself a favor to ignore these two |
Egnever |
May-15-10 03:53 AM |
#126 |
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Speaking of tag teams... it's mr. contentless personal attack himself. |
Hannah Bell |
May-15-10 04:02 AM |
#128 |
 -
I think it was valuable |
William Z. Foster |
May-15-10 12:45 PM |
#134 |
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it was. their only argument was "you don't know because you're not from detroit". |
Hannah Bell |
May-15-10 11:04 PM |
#145 |
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Detroit destroyed public transport |
Gaedel |
May-15-10 05:15 AM |
#130 |
 -
massive pressure |
William Z. Foster |
May-15-10 12:56 PM |
#137 |
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86 per cent white for Dearborn |
Gaedel |
May-17-10 04:54 AM |
#163 |
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ever evolving |
William Z. Foster |
May-17-10 04:52 PM |
#194 |
 -
sez you. other detroiters disagree. |
Hannah Bell |
May-12-10 10:32 PM |
#57 |
 -
Ask the OP or the poster you're responding to if they support the UAW. Guardian Angels of Detroit? |
Romulox |
May-12-10 04:12 PM |
#37 |
 -
like bob isn't corrupt. like kilpatrick's corruption wasn't encouraged & abetted by the ptb. |
Hannah Bell |
May-13-10 01:42 PM |
#70 |
-
kick (too late to rec) |
amborin |
May-12-10 04:10 PM |
#35 |
-
kick |
William Z. Foster |
May-14-10 04:56 PM |
#89 |
 -
It's been an illuminating thread. |
Starry Messenger |
May-14-10 05:14 PM |
#91 |
  -
never knew about this Bobb character's damage to my Oakland, thanks! |
NuttyFluffers |
May-15-10 05:47 AM |
#131 |
  -
Got any ideas? |
LuckyTheDog |
May-15-10 06:29 PM |
#142 |
 -
I have been civil to you. |
Starry Messenger |
May-15-10 08:36 PM |
#143 |
 -
OK... so no ideas from you. |
LuckyTheDog |
May-16-10 11:52 PM |
#154 |
 -
Oh I have ideas. |
Starry Messenger |
May-17-10 12:30 AM |
#158 |
 -
LOL |
LuckyTheDog |
May-17-10 08:22 AM |
#168 |
 -
Thanks for getting it. It is not a post about Detroit really.. |
madfloridian |
May-14-10 06:11 PM |
#99 |
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Totally Wrong |
Gaedel |
May-14-10 06:29 PM |
#102 |
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depends |
William Z. Foster |
May-14-10 06:45 PM |
#105 |
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the specific suburbs |
William Z. Foster |
May-14-10 07:22 PM |
#109 |
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if the school system was designed for 2 million kids... and there are only |
greencharlie |
May-14-10 06:30 PM |
#103 |
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Oh, come on. You can make adjustments without bulldozing the schools. |
madfloridian |
May-15-10 12:32 AM |
#117 |
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Detroit Public Schools |
Gaedel |
May-15-10 10:51 AM |
#132 |
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Detroit's special needs schools at risk |
Starry Messenger |
May-15-10 12:49 PM |
#135 |
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Starry |
Gaedel |
May-17-10 08:10 AM |
#164 |
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Thank you Gaedel, I appreciate the response. |
Starry Messenger |
May-17-10 08:32 AM |
#170 |
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If I were Bobb.... |
Gaedel |
May-17-10 09:38 AM |
#172 |
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I Live Near Detroit, Lived in Detroit and Taught ACT Prep in DPS |
DimplesinMI |
May-17-10 10:39 AM |
#173 |
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Interesting perspective |
tammywammy |
May-17-10 12:53 PM |
#177 |