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Reply #127: It is absolutely against the priniciples of liberalism to support the student's racism. [View All]

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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-10 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #121
127. It is absolutely against the priniciples of liberalism to support the student's racism.
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  -20 Students Wearing "Border Patrol" shirts on Cinco De Mayo asked to remove them SemiCharmedQuark  May-06-10 05:05 PM   #0 
  - Okay, forget US flags, THAT is fucked up. n/t  superduperfarleft   May-06-10 05:06 PM   #1 
  - Freedom of Speech, no?  SemiCharmedQuark   May-06-10 05:07 PM   #2 
     - More likely for their own protection  FreakinDJ   May-06-10 05:10 PM   #7 
     - So your are claiming that it would incite violence. Isn't that low an opinion of potential  ProgressiveProfessor   May-07-10 04:59 PM   #130 
        - Some people want to blow right past the fashion police to the fashion executioners.  Wizard777   May-08-10 12:15 PM   #205 
     - High school students do not have the same 1st Amendment rights  Goblinmonger   May-07-10 08:05 AM   #29 
     - They don't but they have rights.  harkadog   May-07-10 06:05 PM   #166 
     - That seems like an intent to be offensive and possibly incite violence. Students may expect  KittyWampus   May-07-10 09:36 AM   #54 
        - There is no right to not be offended.  X_Digger   May-07-10 09:43 AM   #60 
           - Expressions of RACISM are not welcome in public schools  EFerrari   May-07-10 12:00 PM   #71 
              - Welcome? No. Protected? Often, yes.  X_Digger   May-07-10 12:13 PM   #76 
              - So why is this legal argument important to you?  EFerrari   May-07-10 12:26 PM   #82 
                 - I support speech that is legal, yes.  X_Digger   May-07-10 12:32 PM   #84 
                    - Which neatly avoids the question of what social behavior is.  EFerrari   May-07-10 12:37 PM   #86 
                       - What people _should_ not do is quite different than what people _must_ not do.  X_Digger   May-07-10 12:42 PM   #87 
                       - Precisely. The law doesn't describe a standard of good behavior.  EFerrari   May-07-10 01:19 PM   #100 
                          - It only says that it's protected, and can't be cause for punishment.  X_Digger   May-07-10 01:30 PM   #103 
                             - Right. I don't think telling students in an eastside high school  EFerrari   May-07-10 01:37 PM   #104 
                                - Rather wrap them in cotton wool and tell them the world will always be fair?  X_Digger   May-07-10 02:53 PM   #108 
                                   - Deleted message  Name removed   May-07-10 03:05 PM   #109 
                                   - Between enduring blatant racism and being wrapped in cotton  EFerrari   May-07-10 03:25 PM   #113 
                                      - Knowing the difference, and being able to deal with it is one thing that school can teach, yes. n/t  X_Digger   May-07-10 06:28 PM   #174 
                       - Schools are not there to teach social graces. Trying to have them do so has never worked  ProgressiveProfessor   May-07-10 05:24 PM   #138 
              - Its the decision of what is racist and what is not is the real problem  ProgressiveProfessor   May-07-10 05:22 PM   #137 
  - For some reason this "prank" sounds like the kind of fuckwittery seen on the /b/ forum of 4chan.  TheMightyFavog   May-06-10 05:08 PM   #3 
  - But they're just expressing their love for the border patrol.  HiFructosePronSyrup   May-06-10 05:09 PM   #4 
  - LOL!  proud2BlibKansan   May-06-10 05:38 PM   #17 
  - .  fishwax   May-07-10 12:09 PM   #73 
  - But of course. That's what they want to be when they grow up!  lonestarnot   May-07-10 09:29 PM   #185 
  - Rethughlican Larvae nt  Xipe Totec   May-06-10 05:10 PM   #5 
  - Yup, still protected speech, IMHO. n/t  X_Digger   May-06-10 05:10 PM   #6 
  - yelling "Fire" in a crowded theater .. .  mzteris   May-06-10 05:17 PM   # 
  - racial epithets are definitely protected speech...  ProdigalJunkMail   May-06-10 05:27 PM   #13 
  - Yes, the first amendment is not unlimited  X_Digger   May-06-10 05:33 PM   #15 
  - Agreed  customerserviceguy   May-06-10 05:28 PM   #14 
  - It's easy to support the first amendment for speech you agree with.  X_Digger   May-06-10 05:37 PM   #16 
  - Schools are expected to provide a safe environment for ALL students. What part of that  KittyWampus   May-07-10 09:38 AM   #55 
     - How does wearing any particular flag endanger safety? n/t  X_Digger   May-07-10 09:45 AM   #61 
        - That is a tough one I know  npk   May-07-10 05:17 PM   #136 
  - Actually, it was created so that people can air their grievances  mmonk   May-07-10 07:38 AM   #24 
     - And perhaps their grievance  customerserviceguy   May-08-10 12:44 PM   #208 
  - Protected.... sure  dems_rightnow   May-07-10 07:41 AM   #25 
     - Not really, see the Tinker case  X_Digger   May-07-10 07:58 AM   #27 
        - Protecting a certain segment from intimidation is within the scope of a school's administration.  KittyWampus   May-07-10 09:41 AM   #59 
           - Please define intimidation.  X_Digger   May-07-10 09:50 AM   #64 
           - The problem is what constitutes intimidation.  ProgressiveProfessor   May-07-10 09:54 AM   #66 
  - And if they had shown up wearing shirts that said  skepticscott   May-06-10 05:14 PM   #8 
  - Well, that wouldn't be racist.  HiFructosePronSyrup   May-06-10 05:17 PM   #11 
     - Was either set of shirts really racist or just varying degrees of tacky?  ProgressiveProfessor   May-07-10 01:27 AM   #18 
     - How is border patrol racist? Could refer to Canada's border, or coastline border  The Straight Story   May-07-10 07:58 AM   #28 
        - Yes, absolutely, these fine young gentlemen  Goblinmonger   May-07-10 08:07 AM   #30 
        - So what if they were  ProgressiveProfessor   May-07-10 08:53 AM   #34 
           - Disruption to the school day  Goblinmonger   May-07-10 09:02 AM   #40 
              - Actually, read tinker and following cases..  X_Digger   May-07-10 09:05 AM   #42 
              - Yes  Goblinmonger   May-07-10 09:07 AM   #45 
                 - Let me expand..  X_Digger   May-07-10 09:15 AM   #47 
                    - What about this nugget you didn't bold  Goblinmonger   May-07-10 09:26 AM   #51 
                       - Protected speech is protected speech.  X_Digger   May-07-10 09:39 AM   #56 
                          - But schools can ban more than that  Goblinmonger   May-07-10 09:47 AM   #62 
                             - You're right, I'm leaving out a lot of cases- because the precedent they set doesn't apply--  X_Digger   May-07-10 09:53 AM   #65 
              - If its not attack language, or clear double entendre the school should not act  ProgressiveProfessor   May-07-10 09:17 AM   #48 
                 - But that is clearly not what was being said with the May 5th celebration  Goblinmonger   May-07-10 09:22 AM   #50 
                    - Again, you are interpreting subtext and intent  ProgressiveProfessor   May-07-10 09:33 AM   #52 
                       - Let's take your argument to the other extreme.  Goblinmonger   May-07-10 09:39 AM   #57 
                          - The example you gave is actually hate speech and can be legitimately controlled  ProgressiveProfessor   May-07-10 09:48 AM   #63 
                          - Disruption is not limited in scope to violence.  Viking12   May-07-10 12:21 PM   #80 
                             - No, not a strawman  Goblinmonger   May-07-10 01:01 PM   #91 
                                - When an actual disruption occurs.  Viking12   May-07-10 03:22 PM   #112 
        - Do these people get up in arms about the Canadian border? Ever?  Raineyb   May-07-10 08:15 AM   #32 
        - the obvious reason being that  SwampG8r   May-07-10 09:02 AM   #39 
           - And they are white. n/t  Goblinmonger   May-07-10 09:03 AM   #41 
           - and speak English...  Cid_B   May-07-10 12:04 PM   #72 
           - The obvious reason being most Canadians are white.  Raineyb   May-07-10 06:36 PM   #175 
        - um, yeah, right  fishwax   May-07-10 12:11 PM   #75 
        - San Jose's Canadian population consists mainly of the Sharks' first line  KamaAina   May-07-10 12:14 PM   #77 
        - It is reading minds  treestar   May-07-10 03:55 PM   #120 
  - I think offensive items can be banned within a school setting  CreekDog   May-06-10 05:15 PM   #9 
  - The standards are so capricious that it makes defining offensive almost impossible  ProgressiveProfessor   May-07-10 01:41 AM   #19 
  - Bong hits for Jesus, baby  depakid   May-07-10 03:18 AM   #21 
     - There is a very strong feeling against them in the US. Not sure why, but its widespread  ProgressiveProfessor   May-07-10 08:52 AM   #33 
     - While I don't agree with the Bong Hits case..  X_Digger   May-07-10 09:12 AM   #46 
        - One can argue that with the current makeup of the court, Tinker's no longer viable  depakid   May-07-10 07:54 PM   #179 
           - re hostile environment..  X_Digger   May-07-10 09:19 PM   #183 
           - You well may be right (nt)  ProgressiveProfessor   May-07-10 10:31 PM   #191 
  - My daughters wear uniforms to school  revolution breeze   May-07-10 09:18 AM   #49 
     - Is she in a California public school?  ProgressiveProfessor   May-07-10 09:35 AM   #53 
        - No we are in south Louisiana  revolution breeze   May-07-10 10:55 AM   #67 
           - In CA parents can opt out of uniforms and schools can not create defacto uniforms via  ProgressiveProfessor   May-07-10 05:43 PM   #156 
           - Charter? or Public?  lonestarnot   May-07-10 09:30 PM   #186 
              - Public N/T  revolution breeze   May-08-10 12:20 PM   #207 
  - The link won't for me, but those kids sound pretty lame.  ZombieHorde   May-06-10 05:16 PM   #10 
  - Working Link HERE:  NYC_SKP   May-06-10 05:26 PM   #12 
  - Let 'em wear 'em.  RedCappedBandit   May-07-10 02:52 AM   #20 
  - I ptretty much feel the same way  ProgressiveProfessor   May-07-10 08:58 AM   #36 
  - Why all the May 5 hoohah? Cinco de mayo is a MEXICAN holiday, not a US holiday.  Lance_Boyle   May-07-10 06:26 AM   #22 
  - The school has obligations to those that are in their care.  Goblinmonger   May-07-10 08:10 AM   #31 
  - Its not even a Mexican holiday...  ProgressiveProfessor   May-07-10 08:54 AM   #35 
  - I don't get it either  TorchTheWitch   May-07-10 12:11 PM   #74 
  - and St. Patrick's Day is an Irish holiday, not a US holiday  fishwax   May-07-10 12:16 PM   #79 
     - I have never heard of any students being kicked out of school for wearing  Lance_Boyle   May-07-10 12:37 PM   #85 
     - I've heard of them getting in trouble for wearing orange  fishwax   May-07-10 12:51 PM   #88 
        - I was going to bring that up...I always wear orange on St Patricks Day  ProgressiveProfessor   May-07-10 04:51 PM   #125 
     - St. Patrick's day has never been an exclusive Irish holiday  TorchTheWitch   May-07-10 06:10 PM   #167 
        - And it is not a drunken orgy with green beer either  ProgressiveProfessor   May-07-10 06:39 PM   #176 
        - true -- but it is a national holiday and a solemnity in Ireland  fishwax   May-07-10 06:56 PM   #178 
  - Guy on fox compared it to "Wearing your fave sports jersey"  RonSunn   May-07-10 06:28 AM   #23 
  - Even a jersey can get you in trouble these days  KamaAina   May-07-10 01:24 PM   #102 
  - a guy on my news station asked a parent who  dana_b   May-07-10 05:04 PM   #132 
     - Interview with one of the "offended" students said dissed, not bullied or intimidated  ProgressiveProfessor   May-07-10 05:29 PM   #145 
  - I agree with the administrators  MODem75   May-07-10 07:54 AM   #26 
  - Why would  kctim   May-07-10 08:59 AM   #38 
     - I can't believe the reaction of DU to these May 5th cases.  Goblinmonger   May-07-10 09:05 AM   #43 
     - Right and when pushed on it, the response is always, "it's legal"  EFerrari   May-07-10 11:57 AM   #70 
     - Neither can I. The level of hostility towards free speech is frightening.  Viking12   May-07-10 12:23 PM   #81 
     - Couple thoughts  Goblinmonger   May-07-10 01:03 PM   #93 
     - And how would you compare  skepticscott   May-07-10 05:53 PM   #162 
     - Free speech is only one of the issues in these threads.  EFerrari   May-07-10 02:21 PM   #106 
        - Blatant racism is not an excuse to smother free speech  Viking12   May-07-10 03:20 PM   #111 
           - And free speech was only one issue here.  EFerrari   May-07-10 03:33 PM   #114 
              - Good on you.  Viking12   May-07-10 03:43 PM   #116 
                 - Aim low. n/t  EFerrari   May-07-10 03:47 PM   #117 
                    - So if Progressivism becomes socially unacceptable and makes kids sqeamish  Viking12   May-07-10 04:03 PM   #122 
                       - You really don't understand the difference between social behavior  EFerrari   May-07-10 05:28 PM   #143 
                          - That kind of judgement call is not your, mine, or the school's to make or enforce  ProgressiveProfessor   May-07-10 05:32 PM   #146 
                             - Oh, baloney. Btw, what you are calling "prissiness"  EFerrari   May-07-10 05:36 PM   #151 
                                - School are not mechanisms to enforce your or my standard of decorum  ProgressiveProfessor   May-07-10 05:57 PM   #163 
                                   - Oh, please. This relativistic argument is irresponsible.  EFerrari   May-07-10 06:15 PM   #168 
                                      - I agree, that is why I support deterministic standards, not squishy capricious ones  ProgressiveProfessor   May-07-10 06:41 PM   #177 
                                      - Consensus should be arrived at through reason and discussion, not suppression  Viking12   May-07-10 11:14 PM   #200 
     - Are you seriously  kctim   May-07-10 01:09 PM   #95 
     - Search DU for bullying  Goblinmonger   May-07-10 01:17 PM   #99 
     - Bullying is valid point.  kctim   May-07-10 03:14 PM   #110 
     - I think you've asked this question before and you've gotten an answer.  EFerrari   May-07-10 02:23 PM   #107 
     - What is the point of wearing a border patrol T shirt?  treestar   May-07-10 04:17 PM   #124 
        - Do they need a reason?  ProgressiveProfessor   May-07-10 05:33 PM   #148 
     - "I can't believe the reaction of DU"  Number23   May-07-10 08:18 PM   #180 
        - The administrators have backed down and apologized on the flag shirts already  ProgressiveProfessor   May-07-10 10:43 PM   #193 
     - Because it's racist code?  EFerrari   May-07-10 11:55 AM   #68 
     - I see that your empathy training is incomplete. (nt)  Heidi   May-07-10 01:12 PM   #96 
        - Self delete. Wrong place. (nt)  Heidi   May-07-10 01:14 PM   #97 
  - This RW racism has to stop.  Xenotime   May-07-10 08:59 AM   #37 
  - 20 little assholes.....future teabaggers unless college changes their worldviews  marmar   May-07-10 09:07 AM   #44 
  - I see it more as "look at me" contraianism, more than political  ProgressiveProfessor   May-07-10 09:40 AM   #58 
  - Schools are not free speech zones. n/t  cynatnite   May-07-10 11:55 AM   #69 
  - Actually, they are  X_Digger   May-07-10 12:31 PM   #83 
     - The cases following this prove that schools are not free speech zones...  cynatnite   May-07-10 12:55 PM   #89 
        - Err.. it's not unlimited, but it does apply there.  X_Digger   May-07-10 01:01 PM   #92 
  - jerks n/t  fishwax   May-07-10 12:15 PM   #78 
  - The selective outrage against "violation of freedom of speech" is sadly predictable.  Commie Pinko Dirtbag   May-07-10 12:56 PM   #90 
  - It's just a bunch of Mexicans.  Goblinmonger   May-07-10 01:05 PM   #94 
  - But we're supposed to solve the bullying problem. . .  donco6   May-07-10 01:16 PM   #98 
  - Not really. How many responsible people do you know  EFerrari   May-07-10 03:42 PM   #115 
  - There is a slippery slope here that needs to be acknowledged...  ProgressiveProfessor   May-07-10 05:11 PM   #135 
  - Blatant attempt to intimidate. Bullying little shits.  Heidi   May-07-10 01:19 PM   #101 
  - This is the district my Mom (& I for the duration) live in.  EFerrari   May-07-10 02:12 PM   #105 
  - Assholes  Initech   May-07-10 03:51 PM   #118 
  - I agree with that, but they have the right to be one.  ProgressiveProfessor   May-07-10 05:25 PM   #139 
  - I do believe I know someone who goes to this school  KamaAina   May-07-10 03:51 PM   #119 
  - It is absolutely against the principles of liberalism to support the school's decision. EOM  fishbulb703   May-07-10 03:57 PM   #121 
  - +1  Viking12   May-07-10 04:05 PM   #123 
  - I support the school decision, I'm a liberal, and you are full of shit. -nt  Commie Pinko Dirtbag   May-07-10 04:54 PM   #126 
  - What other civil rights do you oppose? American flag shirts are not prima facie bullying  ProgressiveProfessor   May-07-10 04:56 PM   #128 
     - Check the OP. This time it's not American flags. -nt  Commie Pinko Dirtbag   May-07-10 05:25 PM   #140 
        - Both incidents are being used in the discussion here  ProgressiveProfessor   May-07-10 06:03 PM   #165 
           - The Border Patrol one is much nastier, and that's what I'm talking about.  Commie Pinko Dirtbag   May-07-10 06:19 PM   #171 
  - It is absolutely against the priniciples of liberalism to support the student's racism.  HiFructosePronSyrup   May-07-10 04:56 PM   #127 
  - Your presumption of racism is unfounded  ProgressiveProfessor   May-07-10 04:57 PM   #129 
  - It takes breathtaking innanity not to notice the racism.  HiFructosePronSyrup   May-07-10 04:59 PM   #131 
  - I vote "second option". -nt  Commie Pinko Dirtbag   May-07-10 05:06 PM   #133 
  - So do I.  HiFructosePronSyrup   May-07-10 05:33 PM   #147 
  - If its not prima facie, the school really has no right to act.  ProgressiveProfessor   May-07-10 05:08 PM   #134 
     - What utter bs. Have you ever actually been put in charge  EFerrari   May-07-10 05:27 PM   #142 
     - For several years in several countries  ProgressiveProfessor   May-07-10 05:34 PM   #149 
     - Are they contrarian? Yes.  HiFructosePronSyrup   May-07-10 05:34 PM   #150 
        - Its the want to be different, not do what everybody else is doing, being outrageous enough to get  ProgressiveProfessor   May-07-10 05:41 PM   #154 
           - You can say the same thing about skinheads.  HiFructosePronSyrup   May-07-10 05:44 PM   #157 
              - Not nearly as much. Its more like goths and emo. The vast majority outgrow it thankfully  ProgressiveProfessor   May-07-10 06:00 PM   #164 
                 - If goths and emo kids were racist, sure.  HiFructosePronSyrup   May-07-10 06:18 PM   #170 
  - It's hard to believe you actually dont see how wearing "border patrol"  KonaKane   May-07-10 05:26 PM   #141 
     - It tacky and rude, but in that age group probably not particularly racist  ProgressiveProfessor   May-07-10 05:39 PM   #153 
        - You seem to have a difficult time calling racist behavior exactly what it is  Number23   May-07-10 08:30 PM   #181 
        - Having seen the "ban this because I find offensive" game in action  ProgressiveProfessor   May-07-10 08:53 PM   #182 
        - High school boys can be as racist, or moreso, than anyone else.  KonaKane   May-07-10 09:35 PM   #188 
        - Not in my experience, YMMV.  ProgressiveProfessor   May-07-10 10:11 PM   #189 
           - So your lesson to the racists is...  Goblinmonger   May-07-10 10:44 PM   #194 
              - ROFL!  KonaKane   May-07-10 10:45 PM   #195 
              - Actually its what the courts have told the schools: balanced treatment.  ProgressiveProfessor   May-07-10 10:51 PM   #197 
                 - The courts have said that poorly veiled racism  Goblinmonger   May-07-10 10:57 PM   #199 
                    - Look up the straight pride case...you will find it instructive  ProgressiveProfessor   May-08-10 12:40 AM   #203 
        - I do not believe that you have been put in charge of high school kids  Goblinmonger   May-07-10 10:43 PM   #192 
        - I think politically active adults project that into others  ProgressiveProfessor   May-07-10 10:47 PM   #196 
           - I teach high school  Goblinmonger   May-07-10 10:51 PM   #198 
              - I have and still do  ProgressiveProfessor   May-08-10 12:36 AM   #202 
        - you don't have to be political to be a bigot  fishwax   May-07-10 11:19 PM   #201 
  - it's possible to despise the student's racism and still believe  tishaLA   May-07-10 05:43 PM   #155 
     - So you believe it's OK for students bring racist messages to school.  HiFructosePronSyrup   May-07-10 05:45 PM   #158 
        - I don't believe I said that  tishaLA   May-07-10 05:49 PM   #159 
           - I believe you did say that.  HiFructosePronSyrup   May-07-10 05:50 PM   #160 
              - your belief isn't well founded then  tishaLA   May-07-10 05:53 PM   #161 
                 - Sigh.  Commie Pinko Dirtbag   May-07-10 06:18 PM   #169 
                 - your little syllogism is cute, but it doesn't respond to anything I actually said  tishaLA   May-07-10 06:20 PM   #173 
                 - It is.  HiFructosePronSyrup   May-07-10 06:20 PM   #172 
  - Against the priniciples of libertarianism not liberalism.  MODem75   May-07-10 09:24 PM   #184 
     - Slippery slope and I have seen it in action  ProgressiveProfessor   May-07-10 10:30 PM   #190 
  - Seems to me that those students were trying to intimidate the "brown people."  DevonRex   May-07-10 05:28 PM   #144 
  - Seems to me you're right  KonaKane   May-07-10 09:34 PM   #187 
     - I think you're right. Free speech was meant to persuade, not to intimidate.  DevonRex   May-08-10 11:58 AM   #204 
        - Who then, would be intimidated  skepticscott   May-09-10 09:15 AM   #210 
  - Will there ever be peace again at these schools  npk   May-07-10 05:39 PM   #152 
  - Shouldn't they be picking on fat people who insist on wearing spandex instead?  Wizard777   May-08-10 12:18 PM   #206 
     - That happens everyday, its a national disgrace.  ProgressiveProfessor   May-08-10 06:14 PM   #209 
 

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