Nuclear Unicorn
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Thu Apr-29-10 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #36 |
| 45. My dad had to listen to a lot of stuff like that when he was in a union |
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I'm not calling you a union buster but please consider what you say.
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| -Oil-rich Venezuela gripped by economic crisis |
naaman fletcher |
Apr-29-10 10:57 AM |
#0 |
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Hey but everything is equal right? |
dkf |
Apr-29-10 11:00 AM |
#1 |
  -
You can't be for peace AND be for forcing Venezuela to the right. |
Ken Burch |
Apr-29-10 11:06 AM |
#5 |
| -
There is something to be gained by privitization. |
dkf |
Apr-29-10 11:10 AM |
#8 |
| -
You aren't living in a shantytown, are you? |
WinkyDink |
May-01-10 06:38 PM |
#136 |
| -
Mmmm Hmmmmm |
NeedleCast |
Apr-29-10 11:02 AM |
#2 |
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He hadn't said it was paradise, just a lot better than what they had. |
Ken Burch |
Apr-29-10 11:06 AM |
#6 |
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Looks like they'd gain the same economic expantion that their neighbors are experiencing |
NeedleCast |
Apr-29-10 11:13 AM |
#9 |
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Sure because everyone wants to be America's whore. |
MyNameGoesHere |
Apr-29-10 12:13 PM |
#21 |
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That wasn't really the other point. |
Statistical |
Apr-29-10 04:00 PM |
#120 |
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But their health care is fabulous. Which makes up for |
sufrommich |
Apr-29-10 11:04 AM |
#3 |
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Well, they'd hardly be better off being like us. |
Ken Burch |
Apr-29-10 11:05 AM |
#4 |
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Yes, I'm sure if given the option |
naaman fletcher |
Apr-29-10 11:48 AM |
#11 |
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A lot of US don't want OUR economy. |
Ken Burch |
Apr-29-10 11:52 AM |
#12 |
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Did I defend the status quo? |
naaman fletcher |
Apr-29-10 11:54 AM |
#13 |
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Nothing progressive happens in countries where the economy gets privatized |
Ken Burch |
Apr-29-10 12:15 PM |
#24 |
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so you are saying all European countries are right-wing? They all have Market value societies. |
KittyWampus |
Apr-29-10 12:41 PM |
#32 |
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The progressive aspects of European societies are all from the non-market side of their economies |
Ken Burch |
Apr-29-10 12:44 PM |
#35 |
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The progressive aspects are paid for by a robust economy. |
Statistical |
Apr-29-10 04:02 PM |
#121 |
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What are we arguing? |
naaman fletcher |
Apr-29-10 12:43 PM |
#34 |
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People often prefer to live in wealthier societies. |
Ken Burch |
Apr-29-10 12:47 PM |
#41 |
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Well I am glad you know better than poor people do. nt. |
naaman fletcher |
Apr-29-10 12:49 PM |
#42 |
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You really HATE the idea the Venezuela has demonstrated that alternatives to capitalism can work |
Ken Burch |
Apr-29-10 12:52 PM |
#46 |
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Since you keep arguing with me on points that I never made, |
naaman fletcher |
Apr-29-10 01:01 PM |
#53 |
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How can you say they are working |
hack89 |
May-01-10 08:50 PM |
#140 |
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You can probably say that about most Peruvians or Colombians, too. |
Flaneur |
Apr-29-10 12:50 PM |
#43 |
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+1 nt |
laughingliberal |
Apr-29-10 02:36 PM |
#93 |
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+100 |
Ken Burch |
Apr-29-10 03:43 PM |
#115 |
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Could be real or it could like the CIA bringing the Chilean economy to its knees in 1973 |
SharonAnn |
Apr-29-10 11:07 AM |
#7 |
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That would make Chavez a CIA agent. Interesting. nt |
Dreamer Tatum |
Apr-29-10 12:09 PM |
#17 |
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Venezuela is experiencing the downsides of a management crisis |
bridgit |
Apr-29-10 11:28 AM |
#10 |
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POST OF THE YEAR |
Dreamer Tatum |
Apr-29-10 12:13 PM |
#23 |
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Said the right-winger. |
Ken Burch |
Apr-29-10 12:15 PM |
#25 |
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Replies the pie in the sky eyed rube? |
bridgit |
Apr-29-10 12:18 PM |
#26 |
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Venezuela has problems. It would have problems just as bad or worse if it were capitalist |
Ken Burch |
Apr-29-10 12:29 PM |
#30 |
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Stawman of the year. |
Statistical |
Apr-29-10 04:08 PM |
#123 |
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Plenty fair enough - sometimes, it *is* simply as fair as it gets |
bridgit |
Apr-29-10 10:35 PM |
#128 |
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Wrong. It's simply a management crisis |
Dreamer Tatum |
Apr-29-10 12:18 PM |
#27 |
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It's about the assumption that the only good management can be provided |
Ken Burch |
Apr-29-10 12:28 PM |
#28 |
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That's your assumption, not mine. nt |
Dreamer Tatum |
Apr-29-10 12:43 PM |
#33 |
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+1 |
NeedleCast |
Apr-29-10 12:46 PM |
#39 |
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+1. Some people just want to see it as a Bush vs. Chavez thing. They BOTH suck ass as leaders. |
Statistical |
Apr-29-10 04:05 PM |
#122 |
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Maybe they are spending too much on weapons |
Renew Deal |
Apr-29-10 11:56 AM |
#14 |
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Don't make Republican posts on DU! |
Ken Burch |
Apr-29-10 12:12 PM |
#19 |
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Case in point |
Renew Deal |
Apr-29-10 01:00 PM |
#51 |
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Here's the key right here, in the last sentence of the OP: |
Nuclear Unicorn |
Apr-29-10 12:02 PM |
#15 |
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well put. |
Ken Burch |
Apr-29-10 12:07 PM |
#16 |
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MF has a big fan club here from what I've seen. nt |
laughingliberal |
Apr-29-10 02:40 PM |
#98 |
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Another way to say it |
NeedleCast |
Apr-29-10 12:12 PM |
#18 |
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Deleted message |
Name removed |
Apr-29-10 12:13 PM |
#20 |
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I'm not |
NeedleCast |
Apr-29-10 12:45 PM |
#37 |
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What else could you be if you want a socialist country to go capitalist? |
Ken Burch |
Apr-29-10 12:58 PM |
#50 |
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Must suck to live in a black and white world |
NeedleCast |
Apr-29-10 01:28 PM |
#78 |
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I'd like to see a transition towards more democratic worker management in Venezuela |
Ken Burch |
Apr-29-10 01:39 PM |
#81 |
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But you're not going to get a transition towards a more democratic worker management under Chavez |
NeedleCast |
Apr-29-10 02:02 PM |
#90 |
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Once the rich take back over, all hopes of progress dies. |
Ken Burch |
Apr-29-10 03:08 PM |
#106 |
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what? |
northzax |
Apr-29-10 12:45 PM |
#38 |
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Oh puhleeze. |
Ken Burch |
Apr-29-10 12:51 PM |
#44 |
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so what happens when small firms get big? |
northzax |
Apr-29-10 01:15 PM |
#64 |
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At a certain level, you'd redistribute some of the assets |
Ken Burch |
Apr-29-10 01:17 PM |
#68 |
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So... |
Nuclear Unicorn |
Apr-29-10 01:09 PM |
#56 |
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collective bargaining? great |
northzax |
Apr-29-10 01:35 PM |
#80 |
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Conflating currency with capitalism. |
Greyhound |
Apr-29-10 02:29 PM |
#92 |
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the particular comment I was responding to |
northzax |
Apr-30-10 09:19 AM |
#130 |
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If you live in the U.S., you have no alternative BUT to engage with the market system |
Ken Burch |
Apr-30-10 10:23 PM |
#133 |
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Not true |
northzax |
May-01-10 06:22 PM |
#134 |
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Well, I use a credit union rather than a bank |
Ken Burch |
May-01-10 08:32 PM |
#137 |
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You're confusing Democrat with liberal and there's plenty of these |
Greyhound |
Apr-29-10 01:45 PM |
#87 |
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Actually, |
naaman fletcher |
Apr-29-10 02:04 PM |
#91 |
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And what "long-standing beliefs" would those be? Equality? |
Greyhound |
Apr-29-10 02:37 PM |
#94 |
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Yes, |
naaman fletcher |
Apr-29-10 02:39 PM |
#96 |
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Well you can say that some individuals that identify themselves as Democrats |
Greyhound |
Apr-29-10 02:59 PM |
#105 |
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Oh I see what you are saying, |
naaman fletcher |
Apr-29-10 03:13 PM |
#107 |
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Which is worse: government controlling industry, |
Ken Burch |
Apr-29-10 03:35 PM |
#113 |
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If you look at.. |
naaman fletcher |
Apr-29-10 03:58 PM |
#118 |
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Hell, I'll say that the good guys lost in Vietnam. |
ieoeja |
Apr-29-10 04:15 PM |
#125 |
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The only real "good guys" in Vietnam were the democratic opposition in South Vietnam |
Ken Burch |
Apr-30-10 10:21 PM |
#132 |
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That pretty well sums it up. nt |
laughingliberal |
Apr-29-10 02:43 PM |
#99 |
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Look up the term "capital strike" |
Lydia Leftcoast |
Apr-29-10 03:58 PM |
#117 |
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Huh? |
naaman fletcher |
Apr-29-10 12:13 PM |
#22 |
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If those industries were isolated, perhaps. |
Nuclear Unicorn |
Apr-29-10 12:29 PM |
#29 |
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It's not an accusation against workers, |
naaman fletcher |
Apr-29-10 12:45 PM |
#36 |
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Do you actually KNOW that nobody is watching performance closely? |
Ken Burch |
Apr-29-10 12:46 PM |
#40 |
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long, long history.. |
naaman fletcher |
Apr-29-10 01:02 PM |
#54 |
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There is nothing in common between Venezuela and the Soviet Union |
Ken Burch |
Apr-29-10 01:13 PM |
#61 |
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How am I a red-baiter? |
naaman fletcher |
Apr-29-10 01:17 PM |
#69 |
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It was red-baiting to invoke "the Soviet Union". |
Ken Burch |
Apr-29-10 01:19 PM |
#72 |
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OK then, |
naaman fletcher |
Apr-29-10 01:41 PM |
#82 |
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Not a country but a system: |
Ken Burch |
Apr-29-10 01:44 PM |
#86 |
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hadn't heard of Mondragon till now... |
naaman fletcher |
Apr-29-10 01:47 PM |
#89 |
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Thank you. I was sitting here shaking my head at the Soviet Union comparison. |
laughingliberal |
Apr-29-10 02:48 PM |
#101 |
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My dad had to listen to a lot of stuff like that when he was in a union |
Nuclear Unicorn |
Apr-29-10 12:52 PM |
#45 |
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Indeed. |
Ken Burch |
Apr-29-10 12:54 PM |
#47 |
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Ya know... |
Nuclear Unicorn |
Apr-29-10 03:36 PM |
#114 |
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There is a difference between a union, |
naaman fletcher |
Apr-29-10 01:05 PM |
#55 |
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I think your explanation, indeed, looks more likely. nt |
laughingliberal |
Apr-29-10 02:46 PM |
#100 |
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+1 nt |
laughingliberal |
Apr-29-10 02:39 PM |
#95 |
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Chavez is an EPIC FAILURE. |
Cali_Democrat |
Apr-29-10 12:31 PM |
#31 |
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At least he isn't massacring trade unionists for peacefully marching against austerity budgets |
Ken Burch |
Apr-29-10 12:56 PM |
#49 |
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I'm not concerned about what he's not doing. I'm concerned about what he's doing right now |
Cali_Democrat |
Apr-29-10 01:10 PM |
#57 |
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I'd say the unionists in Columbia who are being assassinated are suffering. |
laughingliberal |
Apr-29-10 02:51 PM |
#102 |
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Does it have to be either/or? |
naaman fletcher |
Apr-29-10 01:11 PM |
#58 |
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If you're pushing for a privatized oil industry, yes. |
Ken Burch |
Apr-29-10 01:12 PM |
#60 |
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My alternative to Chavez would be a good like Lula. |
naaman fletcher |
Apr-29-10 01:18 PM |
#70 |
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He's ambiguous. |
Ken Burch |
Apr-29-10 01:20 PM |
#73 |
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Yet somehow Brazil is expanding and becoming a powerhouse |
naaman fletcher |
Apr-29-10 01:21 PM |
#76 |
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The proceeds of this "expansion" are being held by the few |
Ken Burch |
Apr-29-10 01:24 PM |
#77 |
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Even assuming that is true: |
naaman fletcher |
Apr-29-10 01:30 PM |
#79 |
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Again, you're assuming industries can only expand if driven by the self-interest of the few |
Ken Burch |
Apr-29-10 01:43 PM |
#85 |
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So in Venezuela we should see an expansion |
naaman fletcher |
Apr-29-10 01:45 PM |
#88 |
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We live in a country where all the gains in the economy have been going more and more to the top |
laughingliberal |
Apr-29-10 02:55 PM |
#103 |
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That is true... |
naaman fletcher |
Apr-29-10 03:16 PM |
#109 |
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I do believe all but the very top in Venezuela were in brutal poverty before he was elected. |
laughingliberal |
Apr-29-10 03:20 PM |
#110 |
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well... |
naaman fletcher |
Apr-29-10 04:00 PM |
#119 |
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No, it is not a very large "very top." |
laughingliberal |
Apr-29-10 04:08 PM |
#124 |
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Seems to me.. |
naaman fletcher |
Apr-29-10 04:23 PM |
#126 |
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Geology is the primary determinent of oil production |
wuushew |
Apr-29-10 01:17 PM |
#67 |
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What about the 35% inflation and the blackouts? |
Cali_Democrat |
Apr-29-10 01:21 PM |
#74 |
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Chavez turned me into a newt. |
Forkboy |
Apr-29-10 12:56 PM |
#48 |
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What's wrong with Venezuela is Chavez's Cult of Personality |
MicaelS |
Apr-29-10 01:01 PM |
#52 |
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What's wrong with Venezuela is they've thrown off their local parasites and |
Greyhound |
Apr-29-10 01:21 PM |
#75 |
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Exactly! The global parasites are not happy about being thrown off and don't want anyone else |
laughingliberal |
Apr-29-10 02:58 PM |
#104 |
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You have set up a false dichotomy |
Caliman73 |
Apr-29-10 03:26 PM |
#112 |
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LOL! "José Guerra, a former Central Bank economist, The IMF, and |
Greyhound |
Apr-29-10 01:11 PM |
#59 |
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Indeed. |
Ken Burch |
Apr-29-10 01:15 PM |
#63 |
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Shhhh....we're not supposed to notice any of that. |
Forkboy |
Apr-29-10 01:15 PM |
#65 |
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Indeed. No mention of the people or workers and what they want. |
Nuclear Unicorn |
Apr-29-10 01:16 PM |
#66 |
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LOFL!!! Good point...some here are overt |
uponit7771 |
Apr-30-10 10:23 AM |
#131 |
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it's capital strike, spomsored by the us. |
Hannah Bell |
Apr-29-10 01:14 PM |
#62 |
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How can it be a capital strike in industries where Chavez appropriated the capital? nt |
naaman fletcher |
Apr-29-10 01:18 PM |
#71 |
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most industries in venezuela are privately held. and the state takeover |
Hannah Bell |
Apr-29-10 01:41 PM |
#83 |
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So what you are saying then.. |
naaman fletcher |
Apr-29-10 01:42 PM |
#84 |
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when people say "so what you're saying is...." 10 to 1 they're trying to put straw in your mouth. |
Hannah Bell |
Apr-29-10 10:27 PM |
#127 |
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Venezuelans are STILL in much better shape.... |
bvar22 |
Apr-29-10 02:39 PM |
#97 |
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We could, indeed, use some here |
laughingliberal |
Apr-29-10 03:15 PM |
#108 |
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There must be a lot of corruption is Venezuela |
gravity |
Apr-29-10 03:24 PM |
#111 |
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Venezuelas heavy crude - not in demand like light sweet crude in a tough world economy. |
GreenTea |
Apr-29-10 03:56 PM |
#116 |
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"In stark contrast to the rest of Latin America" - BS |
murdoch |
Apr-29-10 10:42 PM |
#129 |
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Translation: The have-nots have been getting too much; the profiteers need more. |
WinkyDink |
May-01-10 06:38 PM |
#135 |
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What a load of horseshit. nt |
bemildred |
May-01-10 08:34 PM |
#138 |
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-Cough- Disinformation! -cough- Propaganda! - Cough - Bullsh*t! |
ShortnFiery |
May-01-10 08:35 PM |
#139 |
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