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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-29-10 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. Said the right-winger.
n/t.
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  -Oil-rich Venezuela gripped by economic crisis naaman fletcher  Apr-29-10 10:57 AM   #0 
  - Hey but everything is equal right?  dkf   Apr-29-10 11:00 AM   #1 
  - You can't be for peace AND be for forcing Venezuela to the right.  Ken Burch   Apr-29-10 11:06 AM   #5 
     - There is something to be gained by privitization.  dkf   Apr-29-10 11:10 AM   #8 
        - You aren't living in a shantytown, are you?  WinkyDink   May-01-10 06:38 PM   #136 
  - Mmmm Hmmmmm  NeedleCast   Apr-29-10 11:02 AM   #2 
  - He hadn't said it was paradise, just a lot better than what they had.  Ken Burch   Apr-29-10 11:06 AM   #6 
     - Looks like they'd gain the same economic expantion that their neighbors are experiencing  NeedleCast   Apr-29-10 11:13 AM   #9 
        - Sure because everyone wants to be America's whore.  MyNameGoesHere   Apr-29-10 12:13 PM   #21 
           - That wasn't really the other point.  Statistical   Apr-29-10 04:00 PM   #120 
  - But their health care is fabulous. Which makes up for  sufrommich   Apr-29-10 11:04 AM   #3 
  - Well, they'd hardly be better off being like us.  Ken Burch   Apr-29-10 11:05 AM   #4 
     - Yes, I'm sure if given the option  naaman fletcher   Apr-29-10 11:48 AM   #11 
        - A lot of US don't want OUR economy.  Ken Burch   Apr-29-10 11:52 AM   #12 
           - Did I defend the status quo?  naaman fletcher   Apr-29-10 11:54 AM   #13 
              - Nothing progressive happens in countries where the economy gets privatized  Ken Burch   Apr-29-10 12:15 PM   #24 
                 - so you are saying all European countries are right-wing? They all have Market value societies.  KittyWampus   Apr-29-10 12:41 PM   #32 
                 - The progressive aspects of European societies are all from the non-market side of their economies  Ken Burch   Apr-29-10 12:44 PM   #35 
                    - The progressive aspects are paid for by a robust economy.  Statistical   Apr-29-10 04:02 PM   #121 
                 - What are we arguing?  naaman fletcher   Apr-29-10 12:43 PM   #34 
                    - People often prefer to live in wealthier societies.  Ken Burch   Apr-29-10 12:47 PM   #41 
                    - Well I am glad you know better than poor people do. nt.  naaman fletcher   Apr-29-10 12:49 PM   #42 
                       - You really HATE the idea the Venezuela has demonstrated that alternatives to capitalism can work  Ken Burch   Apr-29-10 12:52 PM   #46 
                          - Since you keep arguing with me on points that I never made,  naaman fletcher   Apr-29-10 01:01 PM   #53 
                          - How can you say they are working  hack89   May-01-10 08:50 PM   #140 
                    - You can probably say that about most Peruvians or Colombians, too.  Flaneur   Apr-29-10 12:50 PM   #43 
                       - +1 nt  laughingliberal   Apr-29-10 02:36 PM   #93 
                       - +100  Ken Burch   Apr-29-10 03:43 PM   #115 
  - Could be real or it could like the CIA bringing the Chilean economy to its knees in 1973  SharonAnn   Apr-29-10 11:07 AM   #7 
  - That would make Chavez a CIA agent. Interesting. nt  Dreamer Tatum   Apr-29-10 12:09 PM   #17 
  - Venezuela is experiencing the downsides of a management crisis  bridgit   Apr-29-10 11:28 AM   #10 
  - POST OF THE YEAR  Dreamer Tatum   Apr-29-10 12:13 PM   #23 
  - Said the right-winger.  Ken Burch   Apr-29-10 12:15 PM   #25 
     - Replies the pie in the sky eyed rube?  bridgit   Apr-29-10 12:18 PM   #26 
     - Venezuela has problems. It would have problems just as bad or worse if it were capitalist  Ken Burch   Apr-29-10 12:29 PM   #30 
        - Stawman of the year.  Statistical   Apr-29-10 04:08 PM   #123 
        - Plenty fair enough - sometimes, it *is* simply as fair as it gets  bridgit   Apr-29-10 10:35 PM   #128 
     - Wrong. It's simply a management crisis  Dreamer Tatum   Apr-29-10 12:18 PM   #27 
        - It's about the assumption that the only good management can be provided  Ken Burch   Apr-29-10 12:28 PM   #28 
           - That's your assumption, not mine. nt  Dreamer Tatum   Apr-29-10 12:43 PM   #33 
  - +1  NeedleCast   Apr-29-10 12:46 PM   #39 
  - +1. Some people just want to see it as a Bush vs. Chavez thing. They BOTH suck ass as leaders.  Statistical   Apr-29-10 04:05 PM   #122 
  - Maybe they are spending too much on weapons  Renew Deal   Apr-29-10 11:56 AM   #14 
  - Don't make Republican posts on DU!  Ken Burch   Apr-29-10 12:12 PM   #19 
     - Case in point  Renew Deal   Apr-29-10 01:00 PM   #51 
  - Here's the key right here, in the last sentence of the OP:  Nuclear Unicorn   Apr-29-10 12:02 PM   #15 
  - well put.  Ken Burch   Apr-29-10 12:07 PM   #16 
  - MF has a big fan club here from what I've seen. nt  laughingliberal   Apr-29-10 02:40 PM   #98 
  - Another way to say it  NeedleCast   Apr-29-10 12:12 PM   #18 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Apr-29-10 12:13 PM   #20 
  - I'm not  NeedleCast   Apr-29-10 12:45 PM   #37 
  - What else could you be if you want a socialist country to go capitalist?  Ken Burch   Apr-29-10 12:58 PM   #50 
     - Must suck to live in a black and white world  NeedleCast   Apr-29-10 01:28 PM   #78 
        - I'd like to see a transition towards more democratic worker management in Venezuela  Ken Burch   Apr-29-10 01:39 PM   #81 
           - But you're not going to get a transition towards a more democratic worker management under Chavez  NeedleCast   Apr-29-10 02:02 PM   #90 
              - Once the rich take back over, all hopes of progress dies.  Ken Burch   Apr-29-10 03:08 PM   #106 
  - what?  northzax   Apr-29-10 12:45 PM   #38 
  - Oh puhleeze.  Ken Burch   Apr-29-10 12:51 PM   #44 
  - so what happens when small firms get big?  northzax   Apr-29-10 01:15 PM   #64 
     - At a certain level, you'd redistribute some of the assets  Ken Burch   Apr-29-10 01:17 PM   #68 
  - So...  Nuclear Unicorn   Apr-29-10 01:09 PM   #56 
  - collective bargaining? great  northzax   Apr-29-10 01:35 PM   #80 
  - Conflating currency with capitalism.  Greyhound   Apr-29-10 02:29 PM   #92 
     - the particular comment I was responding to  northzax   Apr-30-10 09:19 AM   #130 
        - If you live in the U.S., you have no alternative BUT to engage with the market system  Ken Burch   Apr-30-10 10:23 PM   #133 
           - Not true  northzax   May-01-10 06:22 PM   #134 
              - Well, I use a credit union rather than a bank  Ken Burch   May-01-10 08:32 PM   #137 
  - You're confusing Democrat with liberal and there's plenty of these  Greyhound   Apr-29-10 01:45 PM   #87 
     - Actually,  naaman fletcher   Apr-29-10 02:04 PM   #91 
     - And what "long-standing beliefs" would those be? Equality?  Greyhound   Apr-29-10 02:37 PM   #94 
        - Yes,  naaman fletcher   Apr-29-10 02:39 PM   #96 
           - Well you can say that some individuals that identify themselves as Democrats  Greyhound   Apr-29-10 02:59 PM   #105 
              - Oh I see what you are saying,  naaman fletcher   Apr-29-10 03:13 PM   #107 
              - Which is worse: government controlling industry,  Ken Burch   Apr-29-10 03:35 PM   #113 
                 - If you look at..  naaman fletcher   Apr-29-10 03:58 PM   #118 
              - Hell, I'll say that the good guys lost in Vietnam.  ieoeja   Apr-29-10 04:15 PM   #125 
                 - The only real "good guys" in Vietnam were the democratic opposition in South Vietnam  Ken Burch   Apr-30-10 10:21 PM   #132 
     - That pretty well sums it up. nt  laughingliberal   Apr-29-10 02:43 PM   #99 
  - Look up the term "capital strike"  Lydia Leftcoast   Apr-29-10 03:58 PM   #117 
  - Huh?  naaman fletcher   Apr-29-10 12:13 PM   #22 
  - If those industries were isolated, perhaps.  Nuclear Unicorn   Apr-29-10 12:29 PM   #29 
     - It's not an accusation against workers,  naaman fletcher   Apr-29-10 12:45 PM   #36 
     - Do you actually KNOW that nobody is watching performance closely?  Ken Burch   Apr-29-10 12:46 PM   #40 
     - long, long history..  naaman fletcher   Apr-29-10 01:02 PM   #54 
        - There is nothing in common between Venezuela and the Soviet Union  Ken Burch   Apr-29-10 01:13 PM   #61 
           - How am I a red-baiter?  naaman fletcher   Apr-29-10 01:17 PM   #69 
           - It was red-baiting to invoke "the Soviet Union".  Ken Burch   Apr-29-10 01:19 PM   #72 
              - OK then,  naaman fletcher   Apr-29-10 01:41 PM   #82 
                 - Not a country but a system:  Ken Burch   Apr-29-10 01:44 PM   #86 
                    - hadn't heard of Mondragon till now...  naaman fletcher   Apr-29-10 01:47 PM   #89 
           - Thank you. I was sitting here shaking my head at the Soviet Union comparison.  laughingliberal   Apr-29-10 02:48 PM   #101 
     - My dad had to listen to a lot of stuff like that when he was in a union  Nuclear Unicorn   Apr-29-10 12:52 PM   #45 
        - Indeed.  Ken Burch   Apr-29-10 12:54 PM   #47 
        - Ya know...  Nuclear Unicorn   Apr-29-10 03:36 PM   #114 
        - There is a difference between a union,  naaman fletcher   Apr-29-10 01:05 PM   #55 
     - I think your explanation, indeed, looks more likely. nt  laughingliberal   Apr-29-10 02:46 PM   #100 
  - +1 nt  laughingliberal   Apr-29-10 02:39 PM   #95 
  - Chavez is an EPIC FAILURE.  Cali_Democrat   Apr-29-10 12:31 PM   #31 
  - At least he isn't massacring trade unionists for peacefully marching against austerity budgets  Ken Burch   Apr-29-10 12:56 PM   #49 
  - I'm not concerned about what he's not doing. I'm concerned about what he's doing right now  Cali_Democrat   Apr-29-10 01:10 PM   #57 
  - I'd say the unionists in Columbia who are being assassinated are suffering.  laughingliberal   Apr-29-10 02:51 PM   #102 
  - Does it have to be either/or?  naaman fletcher   Apr-29-10 01:11 PM   #58 
     - If you're pushing for a privatized oil industry, yes.  Ken Burch   Apr-29-10 01:12 PM   #60 
        - My alternative to Chavez would be a good like Lula.  naaman fletcher   Apr-29-10 01:18 PM   #70 
           - He's ambiguous.  Ken Burch   Apr-29-10 01:20 PM   #73 
              - Yet somehow Brazil is expanding and becoming a powerhouse  naaman fletcher   Apr-29-10 01:21 PM   #76 
                 - The proceeds of this "expansion" are being held by the few  Ken Burch   Apr-29-10 01:24 PM   #77 
                    - Even assuming that is true:  naaman fletcher   Apr-29-10 01:30 PM   #79 
                       - Again, you're assuming industries can only expand if driven by the self-interest of the few  Ken Burch   Apr-29-10 01:43 PM   #85 
                       - So in Venezuela we should see an expansion  naaman fletcher   Apr-29-10 01:45 PM   #88 
                       - We live in a country where all the gains in the economy have been going more and more to the top  laughingliberal   Apr-29-10 02:55 PM   #103 
                          - That is true...  naaman fletcher   Apr-29-10 03:16 PM   #109 
                             - I do believe all but the very top in Venezuela were in brutal poverty before he was elected.  laughingliberal   Apr-29-10 03:20 PM   #110 
                                - well...  naaman fletcher   Apr-29-10 04:00 PM   #119 
                                   - No, it is not a very large "very top."  laughingliberal   Apr-29-10 04:08 PM   #124 
                                      - Seems to me..  naaman fletcher   Apr-29-10 04:23 PM   #126 
  - Geology is the primary determinent of oil production  wuushew   Apr-29-10 01:17 PM   #67 
     - What about the 35% inflation and the blackouts?  Cali_Democrat   Apr-29-10 01:21 PM   #74 
  - Chavez turned me into a newt.  Forkboy   Apr-29-10 12:56 PM   #48 
  - What's wrong with Venezuela is Chavez's Cult of Personality  MicaelS   Apr-29-10 01:01 PM   #52 
  - What's wrong with Venezuela is they've thrown off their local parasites and  Greyhound   Apr-29-10 01:21 PM   #75 
  - Exactly! The global parasites are not happy about being thrown off and don't want anyone else  laughingliberal   Apr-29-10 02:58 PM   #104 
  - You have set up a false dichotomy  Caliman73   Apr-29-10 03:26 PM   #112 
  - LOL! "Jos Guerra, a former Central Bank economist, The IMF, and  Greyhound   Apr-29-10 01:11 PM   #59 
  - Indeed.  Ken Burch   Apr-29-10 01:15 PM   #63 
  - Shhhh....we're not supposed to notice any of that.  Forkboy   Apr-29-10 01:15 PM   #65 
  - Indeed. No mention of the people or workers and what they want.  Nuclear Unicorn   Apr-29-10 01:16 PM   #66 
  - LOFL!!! Good point...some here are overt  uponit7771   Apr-30-10 10:23 AM   #131 
  - it's capital strike, spomsored by the us.  Hannah Bell   Apr-29-10 01:14 PM   #62 
  - How can it be a capital strike in industries where Chavez appropriated the capital? nt  naaman fletcher   Apr-29-10 01:18 PM   #71 
     - most industries in venezuela are privately held. and the state takeover  Hannah Bell   Apr-29-10 01:41 PM   #83 
        - So what you are saying then..  naaman fletcher   Apr-29-10 01:42 PM   #84 
           - when people say "so what you're saying is...." 10 to 1 they're trying to put straw in your mouth.  Hannah Bell   Apr-29-10 10:27 PM   #127 
  - Venezuelans are STILL in much better shape....  bvar22   Apr-29-10 02:39 PM   #97 
  - We could, indeed, use some here  laughingliberal   Apr-29-10 03:15 PM   #108 
  - There must be a lot of corruption is Venezuela  gravity   Apr-29-10 03:24 PM   #111 
  - Venezuelas heavy crude - not in demand like light sweet crude in a tough world economy.  GreenTea   Apr-29-10 03:56 PM   #116 
  - "In stark contrast to the rest of Latin America" - BS  murdoch   Apr-29-10 10:42 PM   #129 
  - Translation: The have-nots have been getting too much; the profiteers need more.  WinkyDink   May-01-10 06:38 PM   #135 
  - What a load of horseshit. nt  bemildred   May-01-10 08:34 PM   #138 
  - -Cough- Disinformation! -cough- Propaganda! - Cough - Bullsh*t!  ShortnFiery   May-01-10 08:35 PM   #139 
 

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