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Reply #113: "Lawful contact" includes being a rape victim, a victim of domestic violence, a witness [View All]

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msanthrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-29-10 07:11 PM
Response to Original message
113. "Lawful contact" includes being a rape victim, a victim of domestic violence, a witness
to a crime, too.

Nice way of valuing some victims, over others....
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  -AZ law first requires "lawful contact" i.e. Traffic violation or other situation prompting police dkf  Apr-28-10 10:28 PM   #0 
  - LOLOL yeah, that'll work.  Bluebear   Apr-28-10 10:29 PM   #1 
  - That is the law. You have to break some law first then they can look further.  dkf   Apr-28-10 10:33 PM   #3 
     - Ah. So if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear.  Bluebear   Apr-28-10 10:39 PM   #6 
     - i live in arizona. about a year  DesertFlower   Apr-28-10 10:40 PM   #8 
     - The statute doesn't say that.  Hosnon   Apr-28-10 11:17 PM   #33 
     - Well, that's what Sarah Palin and Sean Hannity say,  sabrina 1   Apr-29-10 01:51 AM   #64 
     - +  Bluebear   Apr-29-10 03:47 AM   #69 
     - That's is simply untrue. Lawful contact includes being a rape victim, a witness....n/t  msanthrope   Apr-29-10 07:15 PM   #115 
     - Then why, pray tell,  billh58   Apr-29-10 07:22 PM   #117 
     - It is not true that you have to break a law for the police to lawfully contact you.  branders seine   Apr-29-10 08:11 PM   #131 
     - Actually, the phrase  billh58   Apr-30-10 12:44 PM   #161 
     - +  Bluebear   May-02-10 04:03 PM   #167 
     - I guess you never heard of "Chandler Roundup"  JonLP24   May-04-10 06:08 PM   #170 
     - Isn't everyone in violation of SOME law all the time?  dsn   May-04-10 06:23 PM   #171 
  - Your medical card?  sandnsea   Apr-28-10 10:31 PM   #2 
  - The law states that for any lawful contact...where reasonable suspicion exists...a reasonable  dkf   Apr-28-10 10:53 PM   #19 
     - Like the belief that the ID is fraudulent?  sandnsea   Apr-28-10 11:13 PM   #30 
     - So, you're speeding and a cop pulls you over.  sabrina 1   Apr-29-10 12:28 AM   #56 
     - Or Sheriff Joe could be a birther. . .and the driver has a "Si se puede"  kevinbgoode   Apr-29-10 03:47 AM   #68 
     - what you just described could happen today in AZ and in most states  onenote   Apr-29-10 06:07 AM   #76 
     - You are repeating a common piece of misinformation - Citizenship is not the issue  slackmaster   Apr-29-10 12:31 PM   #82 
        - And how is it determined whether or not someone is a lawful  sabrina 1   Apr-29-10 04:31 PM   #96 
           - I don't believe your analysis is correct.  slackmaster   Apr-30-10 09:22 AM   #152 
     - Arizona has a stop and identify statute - no reasonable suspicion required  Lance_Boyle   Apr-29-10 01:10 PM   #85 
     - Wrong.  Indy Lurker   Apr-29-10 04:23 PM   #94 
     - Lawful contact can be someone who witnessed a crime, reported a rape. n/t  msanthrope   Apr-29-10 07:15 PM   #116 
  - why are there so many on DU  Bill McBlueState   Apr-28-10 10:35 PM   #4 
  - self delete.  DesertFlower   Apr-28-10 10:38 PM   #5 
  - Because certain aspects of a person will always be more important than party affiliation.  BlooInBloo   Apr-28-10 10:53 PM   #23 
  - I think there is BROAD support for this law.  branders seine   Apr-29-10 08:13 PM   #133 
  - Why?  RoyGBiv   Apr-30-10 01:06 AM   #148 
     - that's a good point  Bill McBlueState   Apr-30-10 11:33 AM   #155 
     - Well put.  snort   May-04-10 06:51 PM   #172 
  - I have to respond.  dorktv   Apr-28-10 10:39 PM   #7 
  - Why are we talking about "papers". It just takes a state ID.  dkf   Apr-29-10 12:10 AM   #52 
     - What would you define as 'reasonable suspicion that  sabrina 1   Apr-29-10 12:35 AM   #59 
     - delete  Iggo   Apr-29-10 01:21 PM   #86 
     - not to avoid being arrested, no  CreekDog   May-02-10 11:25 AM   #165 
  - I pulled you over because your license plate light isn't working can I ee your papers?  mrcheerful   Apr-28-10 10:40 PM   #9 
  - Driving over the line  itsrobert   Apr-28-10 10:59 PM   #26 
  - Cops who make up shit should be thrown in jail.  dkf   Apr-28-10 11:02 PM   #27 
  - Happened to me, I complained about it here and had some tell me I was lucky to find that I had an  uppityperson   Apr-29-10 04:34 PM   #98 
  - What do you have against immigrants?  LAGC   Apr-28-10 10:41 PM   #10 
  - well said. nt  DesertFlower   Apr-28-10 10:56 PM   #24 
  - I'm not against legal immigrants. I am against illegal immigrants. Also against tax evaders  dkf   Apr-28-10 11:06 PM   #28 
     - But surely you can see how legal immigrants and even native Hispanics will be targeted?  LAGC   Apr-28-10 11:09 PM   #29 
     - I'm Asian. I fully expect to produce ID if I travel to AZ. Moreover I am from one of the  dkf   Apr-28-10 11:44 PM   #42 
        - You're a good little German, aren't you.  KonaKane   Apr-29-10 01:04 AM   #62 
        - So why  Why Syzygy   Apr-29-10 05:13 PM   #106 
        - Umm you can be asked to produce ID at any time.  dkf   Apr-29-10 07:30 PM   #119 
           - By whom?  billh58   Apr-29-10 07:41 PM   #123 
              - Hiibel v sixth district court of Nevada.  dkf   Apr-29-10 07:58 PM   #127 
                 - Again, where  billh58   Apr-29-10 08:25 PM   #135 
                    - The question was whether it is constitutional to **ask** for ID and yes it is.  dkf   Apr-30-10 11:49 AM   #156 
        - That's not believable. I am in Ca since three months ago and have  sabrina 1   Apr-29-10 12:28 PM   #81 
        - I was just carded in sonoma not when I was tasting wine but when I was buying wine.  dkf   Apr-29-10 07:33 PM   #120 
           - Jesus!  billh58   Apr-29-10 07:43 PM   #125 
              - Ummm sweetie I had already bought the wine tasting, drank the wine and was purchasing my choice.  dkf   Apr-29-10 08:01 PM   #128 
                 - So fucking what?  billh58   Apr-29-10 08:29 PM   #136 
                    - I'm saying it is no big deal for a person to produce an ID because we do it all the time.  dkf   Apr-30-10 11:04 AM   #154 
        - He asked, "Is that really a good idea?"  Iggo   Apr-29-10 01:24 PM   #88 
           - I could care less.  dkf   Apr-29-10 07:40 PM   #122 
              - Have you had to show your ID because of your skin color?  Iggo   Apr-29-10 07:42 PM   #124 
                 - I don't know. I'm a pasty white Asian person.  dkf   Apr-29-10 08:05 PM   #129 
                    - And that's okay with you? (n/t)  Iggo   Apr-29-10 09:07 PM   #138 
                       - crickets  Bluebear   Apr-30-10 09:17 PM   #164 
                          - .  Bluebear   May-02-10 02:13 PM   #166 
     - So it's okay to piss on the Constitution  sandnsea   Apr-28-10 11:16 PM   #32 
     - Deleted message  Name removed   Apr-28-10 11:45 PM   #43 
        - Protect terrorists, not Mexicans  sandnsea   Apr-28-10 11:49 PM   #44 
        - President Obama "shreded" (sic) the Constitution? Oh my. nt  uppityperson   Apr-29-10 04:36 PM   #99 
        - Obama has shredded the Constitution?  HiFructosePronSyrup   Apr-29-10 07:00 PM   #112 
        - Deleted message  Name removed   Apr-29-10 07:29 PM   #118 
     - How do you tell the difference between "legal" & "illegal" immigrants?  WolverineDG   Apr-29-10 04:40 PM   #100 
     - Same way you figure out if a person is over or under age for drinking.  dkf   Apr-29-10 08:08 PM   #130 
        - And what is your "reasonable suspicion" that they ARE illegal?  WolverineDG   Apr-29-10 10:42 PM   #142 
     - If you care so much about the rule of law...  HiFructosePronSyrup   Apr-29-10 06:59 PM   #111 
     - I don't understand how this differs from all the other crap we go through.  dkf   Apr-29-10 08:13 PM   #132 
     - Ok so they are cheating  treestar   Apr-29-10 07:49 PM   #126 
        - It's all part of the same disease.  dkf   Apr-29-10 08:21 PM   #134 
        - Deleted message  Name removed   Apr-29-10 09:12 PM   #139 
  - if you're not doing anything wrong you have nothing to worry about....  ibegurpard   Apr-28-10 10:42 PM   #11 
  - "You will not be accosted on the street unless you do something wrong" LOL  NYC Liberal   Apr-28-10 10:44 PM   #12 
  - An officer walking down the street to his car and says hello to someone is a lawful contact  dorktv   Apr-28-10 10:45 PM   #14 
     - Yes. Anyone can go to youtube.com and type in "cop threatens"  NYC Liberal   Apr-28-10 10:52 PM   #18 
  - In Ohio they won't stop you for not wearing your seat belt. I was  doc03   Apr-28-10 10:44 PM   #13 
  - Here in Michigan swerving pot holes can get you a reckless driving ticket  mrcheerful   Apr-28-10 10:53 PM   #21 
  - We had a one horse town Barney Fife that had a scam  doc03   Apr-28-10 11:23 PM   #35 
  - deleted duplicate post  doc03   Apr-28-10 11:23 PM   #36 
  - Of course....  Rebubula   Apr-29-10 06:16 AM   #77 
  - I served in the Army with many soldiers of Mexican decent  doc03   Apr-28-10 10:47 PM   #15 
  - Ok here is what I see and hear here in Arizona  SargeUNN   Apr-28-10 10:47 PM   #16 
  - Reasonable suspicion is not defined?  harkadog   Apr-28-10 11:56 PM   #46 
  - good finally someone who knows what it means  SargeUNN   Apr-29-10 02:50 AM   #66 
     - Again why is this question being asked now?  harkadog   Apr-29-10 05:18 PM   #109 
  - I agree that there needs to be clarification on exactly what is lawful contact and what is  dkf   Apr-29-10 12:01 AM   #47 
  - So Latino citizens could sue the city or state, for example. . .  kevinbgoode   Apr-29-10 03:50 AM   #70 
  - I feel better about racial profiling now knowing it won't happen if somebody doesn't litter.  jmm   Apr-28-10 10:51 PM   #17 
  - Wow... you really drank the koolaid, didn't you?  hlthe2b   Apr-28-10 10:53 PM   #20 
  - Dupnik thinks it's unnecessary because he already arrests hundreds of illegal immigrants every mont.  dkf   Apr-29-10 12:15 AM   #53 
     - So, YOU speak for this AZ sheriff now?  hlthe2b   Apr-29-10 05:14 AM   #73 
  - Another ignorant apologist on DU.  chollybocker   Apr-28-10 10:53 PM   #22 
  - Where are you getting that definition of "lawful contact"? nt.  Hosnon   Apr-28-10 10:57 PM   #25 
  - This is what the guy who wrote this clause to pass scrutiny explained.  dkf   Apr-29-10 12:06 AM   #49 
     - I ran across that last night. But I can't find anyone with legal training who is familiar  Hosnon   Apr-29-10 09:49 AM   #80 
     - A conservative lying? Unbelievable. Media Matters has taken this on and it's false.  SemiCharmedQuark   Apr-29-10 04:45 PM   #104 
  - "Lawful contact" = frequent seat belt and/or sobriety checkpoints  Lyric   Apr-28-10 11:13 PM   #31 
  - Not papers...ID. Don't they ask for those anyway?  dkf   Apr-29-10 12:03 AM   #48 
     - not just license and registration...  hlthe2b   Apr-29-10 04:24 AM   #72 
     - You don't know what the concept of 'papers' referes to, do you?  Viking12   Apr-29-10 01:10 PM   #84 
     - Not for having brown skin.  Iggo   Apr-29-10 02:42 PM   #89 
  - That is a painfully naive view of what this is and what it will be.  TexasObserver   Apr-28-10 11:20 PM   #34 
  - Re: Casual proof of citizenship  JPK   Apr-28-10 11:40 PM   #40 
  - Because our cops are vindictive lawbreaking assholes you mean?  dkf   Apr-29-10 12:18 AM   #54 
     - If I'd wanted to say that, I'd have said that.  TexasObserver   Apr-29-10 12:28 AM   #57 
     - I thought righties .....  JPK   Apr-29-10 01:23 AM   #63 
  - Papers please  JPK   Apr-28-10 11:26 PM   #37 
  - Hmmmm.....Papers please......................  JPK   Apr-28-10 11:43 PM   #41 
  - You forgot the main one..don't be caught walking around brown eom  workinclasszero   Apr-28-10 11:27 PM   #38 
  - Do you know how easy it is to be pulled over over something innocent?  Drunken Irishman   Apr-28-10 11:27 PM   #39 
  - I'll admit that I haven't read the law. But from what I understand  johnaries   Apr-28-10 11:54 PM   #45 
  - They are required if they have a reasonable suspicion that does not include race.  dkf   Apr-29-10 12:07 AM   #50 
  - "The legislation requires law enforcement ..."  ProSense   Apr-29-10 12:10 AM   #51 
  - Hmm and I guess expecting wall street to shape up is anti white? Or gasp anti-Semitic?  dkf   Apr-29-10 12:25 AM   #55 
     - i'll just bet you never ever NEVER break the law..  frylock   Apr-29-10 03:15 PM   #91 
        - Pah she is SO sick of lawbreakers. Sick sick sick.  Bluebear   Apr-29-10 04:41 PM   #101 
           - Deleted message  Name removed   Apr-29-10 05:04 PM   #105 
  - last I checked, I wasn't constitutionally required to get a driver's license  Maru Kitteh   Apr-29-10 12:33 AM   #58 
  - No, the cop can decide you LOOK illegal - hence the reasonable suspicion.  Rex   Apr-29-10 12:38 AM   #60 
  - Riiiiight. Keep telling yourself that.  Desertrose   Apr-29-10 01:00 AM   #61 
  - I'm sure Arizona police will be as careful with this law as the Bush Administration was with the...  Ozymanithrax   Apr-29-10 01:58 AM   #65 
  - yeah so true  SargeUNN   Apr-29-10 02:53 AM   #67 
  - Question. What is this law supposed to accomplish?  Cleobulus   Apr-29-10 03:51 AM   #71 
  - I wondered where this "lawful contact" focus came from. Sean Hanity. My wife was watching a HuffPo  pampango   Apr-29-10 05:21 AM   #74 
  - it's so nice to see racial profiling get a fair shake on DU.  KG   Apr-29-10 05:23 AM   #75 
  - Isn't it though? And the excuses! Man oh man, the excuses!  SemiCharmedQuark   Apr-29-10 04:41 PM   #102 
  - I don't believe you're that stupid.  Dogtown   Apr-29-10 07:08 AM   #78 
  - Stupidity and being intentionally obtuse are NOT mutually exclusive. OP is a  retread   Apr-29-10 07:53 AM   #79 
  - I dunno.  Bluebear   Apr-29-10 12:59 PM   #83 
     - (snicker)  Dogtown   Apr-29-10 01:24 PM   #87 
  - That's incorrect. "Lawful contact" with a police officer is merely  coti   Apr-29-10 03:08 PM   #90 
  - Correct--being victim of a crime is lawful contact. n/t  msanthrope   Apr-29-10 07:13 PM   #114 
  - OP makes a poor assumption...and an incorrect one at that...  Sheepshank   Apr-29-10 03:46 PM   #92 
  - Riiight.  Texasgal   Apr-29-10 03:54 PM   #93 
  - "You will not be accosted on the street unless you do something wrong", right.  uppityperson   Apr-29-10 04:28 PM   #95 
  - ....  WolverineDG   Apr-29-10 04:31 PM   #97 
  - D'oh! Media Matters takes on this conservative lie-Lawful contact could include witnesses,victims,  SemiCharmedQuark   Apr-29-10 04:43 PM   #103 
  - lawful contact doesn't mean violation. If the cop is on the clock on the street ANYBODY HE CONTACTS  librechik   Apr-29-10 05:13 PM   #107 
  - Lawful contact = driving while brown  That Is Quite Enough   Apr-29-10 05:17 PM   #108 
  - +++++++  Bluebear   Apr-29-10 06:58 PM   #110 
  - "Lawful contact" includes being a rape victim, a victim of domestic violence, a witness  msanthrope   Apr-29-10 07:11 PM   #113 
  - just explained by senator menendez on keith's...2 cops walking down the street and come upon you....  spanone   Apr-29-10 07:34 PM   #121 
  - No..No..No...  Indy Lurker   Apr-29-10 08:50 PM   #137 
     - You're confusing reasonable suspicion justifying detainment with what constitutes lawful contact.  coti   Apr-29-10 10:00 PM   #140 
        - reasonable suspicion IS required to see ID  Indy Lurker   Apr-29-10 10:33 PM   #141 
           - ....  coti   Apr-29-10 10:44 PM   #143 
              - What your describing is NOT reasonable suspicion  Indy Lurker   Apr-29-10 11:52 PM   #144 
                 - Actually, in law the word "reasonable" is used to create deliberately vague concepts.  coti   Apr-30-10 12:52 AM   #146 
                 - Another definition  billh58   Apr-30-10 01:07 AM   #149 
                    - Outstanding post. nt  coti   Apr-30-10 01:10 AM   #150 
                    - That won't work  Indy Lurker   Apr-30-10 09:25 AM   #153 
                       - Sorry, but your "notion"  billh58   Apr-30-10 12:30 PM   #160 
                          - +  Bluebear   Apr-30-10 02:02 PM   #163 
  - The ONLY way to reduce illegal immigration is to end the reasons why they come here.  Dark   Apr-30-10 12:14 AM   #145 
  - Totally agreed.  coti   Apr-30-10 01:13 AM   #151 
  - You always could be stopped on reasonable suspicion. So, what does this law change, then?  Fridays Child   Apr-30-10 01:03 AM   #147 
  - Honestly, what planet are you from?  AuntPatsy   Apr-30-10 11:50 AM   #157 
  - They can hold them and turn them over to ICE in these circumstances now.  Hansel   Apr-30-10 11:59 AM   #158 
  - That's an easy  billh58   Apr-30-10 12:54 PM   #162 
     - +  Bluebear   May-02-10 09:55 PM   #168 
  - Or trying to get a job  woo me with science   Apr-30-10 12:02 PM   #159 
  - Or property code violations, or just about anything an officer can make up...  GrantDem   May-02-10 10:05 PM   #169 
 

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