AngryOldDem
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Thu Apr-22-10 11:09 AM
Response to Reply #137 |
| 147. I agree wholeheartedly with your last paragraph. |
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The argument needs to be framed in terms of values. As I said upthread, anyone who is a success story deserves to the lauded for that success. But with that success comes some kind of social obligation -- as the Kennedys are well-aware of, as opposed to the Reagan-era wealth-at-all-costs, he-who-has-the-most-toys-wins mindset.
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| -Yes, absolutely, let's punish success. |
Naturyl |
Apr-21-10 09:58 AM |
#0 |
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Lets face it. "Success" means having a rich dad. |
Oregone |
Apr-21-10 10:00 AM |
#1 |
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Ding-ding. Ding-ding. Ding-ding. We have a winner. |
Kerrytravelers |
Apr-21-10 10:01 AM |
#2 |
| -
That's it in a nut shell! |
havocmom |
Apr-21-10 10:01 AM |
#3 |
| -
Too often these Libertarian types refuse to recognize that aspect |
treestar |
Apr-21-10 10:02 AM |
#5 |
| -
all the people i know of wealth were self-made. |
spanone |
Apr-21-10 03:51 PM |
#104 |
| -
Can you get me a date with one? |
Kolesar |
Apr-21-10 04:31 PM |
#106 |
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You know a lot of em? |
Oregone |
Apr-21-10 09:37 PM |
#112 |
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My friends are Old Money then. By comparison. |
Hardrada |
Apr-22-10 12:42 AM |
#116 |
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and they literally started out with nothing? |
unpossibles |
Apr-22-10 10:06 AM |
#142 |
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No such thing. |
HughBeaumont |
Apr-22-10 11:20 AM |
#149 |
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A 100% true, real-life "rich dad" success (actually, failure) story... |
Amerigo Vespucci |
Apr-22-10 08:57 AM |
#131 |
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You nailed it. |
Ticonderoga |
Apr-22-10 10:49 AM |
#143 |
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How about if success is rising from blue collar to factory owner... |
mainer |
Apr-21-10 10:01 AM |
#4 |
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Everyone claims wealth is a meritocracy. |
Naturyl |
Apr-21-10 10:03 AM |
#6 |
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Which I find ironic |
kenfrequed |
Apr-22-10 08:45 AM |
#125 |
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In the rare cases where that happens |
treestar |
Apr-21-10 10:03 AM |
# |
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by all means, off with JK Rowling's head |
mainer |
Apr-21-10 10:04 AM |
#8 |
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Has JK Rowling moved here to get out of paying high taxes yet? |
redqueen |
Apr-21-10 10:05 AM |
#10 |
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Maybe you missed the fact I was being sarcastic |
mainer |
Apr-21-10 10:07 AM |
#12 |
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No, I don't believe in "meritocracy" to begin with. |
Naturyl |
Apr-21-10 10:13 AM |
#19 |
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"Repay" to what extent? |
Silent3 |
Apr-21-10 10:39 AM |
#49 |
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"Yet the OP would deny that rich people like her exist" |
Oregone |
Apr-21-10 10:14 AM |
#20 |
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Where did the OP say that there is no such thing? |
redqueen |
Apr-21-10 10:14 AM |
#21 |
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OP didn't say that. |
Orsino |
Apr-21-10 11:45 AM |
#60 |
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So she is not claiming her taxes are "punishing" her for success |
treestar |
Apr-21-10 02:13 PM |
#79 |
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Yeah I missed the part where she's complaining about her taxes |
treestar |
Apr-21-10 02:12 PM |
#78 |
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I miss the part where the OP mentions progressive taxes |
mainer |
Apr-21-10 02:53 PM |
#90 |
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Michael Schumacher moved out of Germany |
DissedByBush |
Apr-22-10 07:23 AM |
#119 |
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He's greedy, not evil, and he deserves to be taxed. |
redqueen |
Apr-22-10 08:53 AM |
#127 |
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Greed is what we saw recently here |
DissedByBush |
Apr-23-10 06:30 PM |
#151 |
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Oh Pulease. I bet you did not see JK Rowlings commencement |
HillbillyBob |
Apr-21-10 10:10 AM |
#13 |
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Oh, Puhleese -- did you not get the sarcasm? |
mainer |
Apr-21-10 10:11 AM |
#15 |
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You said that. Not the OP |
Bluenorthwest |
Apr-21-10 10:23 AM |
#36 |
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Wow, you just don't get it. She's not being punished, nor would anyone want to punish her. |
EOTE |
Apr-21-10 11:31 AM |
#56 |
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The OP wants to PUNISH (OP's words) the successful |
mainer |
Apr-21-10 01:41 PM |
#74 |
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The OP is obviously talking about how the Libertarians and free |
treestar |
Apr-21-10 02:18 PM |
#81 |
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That's the problem. It's too obvious. |
NoSheep |
Apr-21-10 03:44 PM |
#100 |
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Apparently you're not familiar with rhetorical techniques. |
EOTE |
Apr-22-10 08:55 AM |
#130 |
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So is your real point that you think her taxes are a punishment? |
treestar |
Apr-21-10 02:15 PM |
#80 |
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My point is the OP wants to punish the successful |
mainer |
Apr-21-10 02:52 PM |
#89 |
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I do NOT think you have any reason to say the OP thinks ALL wealthy people are bad. |
NoSheep |
Apr-21-10 03:43 PM |
#99 |
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Actually you don't get it |
kenfrequed |
Apr-22-10 09:00 AM |
#133 |
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Good for her. If she has "merit," I'd say it's for this |
Naturyl |
Apr-21-10 10:15 AM |
#24 |
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You need to read Ms Rowling's recent piece in the Guardian |
Bluenorthwest |
Apr-21-10 10:16 AM |
#25 |
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My point is that the OP can't distinguish who is being punished |
mainer |
Apr-21-10 10:18 AM |
#29 |
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You're not getting it. I don't care. |
Naturyl |
Apr-21-10 10:29 AM |
#44 |
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The OP does not say what you insist it says. |
Bluenorthwest |
Apr-21-10 10:30 AM |
#46 |
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Then it should say "stop calling crime stories success stories." |
mainer |
Apr-21-10 03:02 PM |
#93 |
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it was in the times, actually |
miscsoc |
Apr-21-10 01:45 PM |
#76 |
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Social mobility in America is dead |
Oregone |
Apr-21-10 10:03 AM |
#7 |
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Everyone gets the benefits of schools, roads, and police. |
mainer |
Apr-21-10 10:06 AM |
#11 |
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LOL |
Oregone |
Apr-21-10 10:12 AM |
#16 |
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Um ... me for example? |
mainer |
Apr-21-10 10:13 AM |
#18 |
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good for you! nt. |
druidity33 |
Apr-21-10 10:16 AM |
#26 |
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So you are a rabid exception who has formed an ancedotal rule |
Oregone |
Apr-21-10 10:17 AM |
#28 |
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I as asked to give an example because apparently, it just doesn't happen. |
mainer |
Apr-21-10 10:20 AM |
#33 |
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Of course it happens. We can name plenty of famous people. Afterall, they are famous |
Oregone |
Apr-21-10 10:24 AM |
#39 |
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You weren't asked for an example, you were asked for a percentage. |
iris27 |
Apr-21-10 12:49 PM |
#67 |
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Are there statistics on this? Or are you asking the unanswerable? |
mainer |
Apr-21-10 01:36 PM |
#72 |
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I don't know the statistics but I do know studies have shown what a person's father does for a |
laughingliberal |
Apr-21-10 02:36 PM |
#85 |
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Here are some stats: |
Oregone |
Apr-21-10 03:39 PM |
#98 |
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Your statistic is meaningless without defining what wealthy is |
Oregone |
Apr-21-10 03:30 PM |
#97 |
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Uhm |
kenfrequed |
Apr-22-10 09:22 AM |
#138 |
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If I weren't the exception, then everyone would be millionaires |
mainer |
Apr-21-10 01:37 PM |
#73 |
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dupe |
Oregone |
Apr-21-10 03:23 PM |
#95 |
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No, you're the dupe for engaging with such a blatant corporatist troll. |
Jim Sagle |
Apr-22-10 09:10 AM |
#136 |
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Define non-wealthy. |
Oregone |
Apr-21-10 03:27 PM |
#96 |
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Oh, we already knew you were wealthy. |
Naturyl |
Apr-21-10 10:19 AM |
#31 |
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I'm a rich socialist. That's what I am. |
mainer |
Apr-21-10 10:21 AM |
#34 |
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You're a rich socialist? |
Naturyl |
Apr-21-10 10:23 AM |
#38 |
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Socialism does not equal "seizing wealth" |
mainer |
Apr-21-10 10:25 AM |
#40 |
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What do you think it means? |
Oregone |
Apr-21-10 10:29 AM |
#43 |
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he thinks socialism = having a dole. |
Hannah Bell |
Apr-21-10 01:56 PM |
#77 |
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Your thinking is the only Black or White thinking I'm seeing here. |
NoSheep |
Apr-21-10 03:46 PM |
#101 |
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Do you complain about taxes? |
treestar |
Apr-21-10 02:28 PM |
#82 |
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No, I don't. I've repeatedly called for taxes of 50% |
mainer |
Apr-21-10 02:56 PM |
#91 |
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I agree that goes overboard in DU at times |
treestar |
Apr-21-10 07:26 PM |
#111 |
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HELLOOOO!!! That's the point! |
verges |
Apr-22-10 09:01 AM |
#135 |
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+100. nt. |
druidity33 |
Apr-21-10 10:15 AM |
#23 |
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Not hard to do at all...just live rent-free w/Mommy and Daddy |
InkAddict |
Apr-21-10 10:23 AM |
#37 |
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If I had a rich dad who died and left me $5 million yesterday. |
Hello_Kitty |
Apr-21-10 03:15 PM |
#94 |
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Yes, because EVERY rich person is a trust fund baby who never |
Common Sense Party |
Apr-21-10 10:04 AM |
#9 |
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And they all twist their black mustaches and cackle evilly |
mainer |
Apr-21-10 10:10 AM |
#14 |
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Don't forget the monocle and top hat. |
Common Sense Party |
Apr-21-10 10:16 AM |
#27 |
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It ain't about 'people' |
blindpig |
Apr-21-10 10:39 AM |
#48 |
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What difference does it make? |
treestar |
Apr-21-10 02:29 PM |
#83 |
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Because those folks... |
daleanime |
Apr-21-10 10:18 AM |
#30 |
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The Obama's made over $5 million last year |
Zipp |
Apr-21-10 11:42 AM |
#57 |
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The former welfare mom you speak of considers paying her high UK taxes to be patriotic. |
iris27 |
Apr-21-10 12:42 PM |
#66 |
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lol. well-traveled, college-educated "welfare mother" formerly married to a TV newsman. |
Hannah Bell |
Apr-21-10 01:41 PM |
#75 |
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Ah, yes! Horatio Alger. The story that keeps Americans voting against themselves. nt |
laughingliberal |
Apr-21-10 02:31 PM |
#84 |
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And raising their marginal tax rate from 35% to 39% is a horrible injustice because, why? eom |
Hello_Kitty |
Apr-21-10 02:47 PM |
#86 |
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Where did I call it a horrible injustice? WHERE? You can't answer that, can you? |
mainer |
Apr-21-10 03:00 PM |
#92 |
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You've been told several times on this thread that the reference to "punish" is |
iris27 |
Apr-21-10 09:47 PM |
#114 |
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there's no problem with that as long as they |
dana_b |
Apr-21-10 04:39 PM |
#107 |
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That's cool. My hat's off to 'em. |
AngryOldDem |
Apr-22-10 07:33 AM |
#120 |
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then perhaps they don't fit any of the conditionals listed in the OP |
fishwax |
Apr-22-10 08:59 AM |
#132 |
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yes, a successful person who used to live on welfare owes absolutely nothing back to the system |
unpossibles |
Apr-22-10 11:04 AM |
#146 |
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Luxury to me... |
BolivarianHero |
Apr-21-10 10:12 AM |
#17 |
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Sure the hell beats my luxury, $20 for a meal once a month at a OCB |
mrcheerful |
Apr-21-10 11:43 AM |
#58 |
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Ah... |
BolivarianHero |
Apr-22-10 08:26 AM |
#124 |
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It would be nice if we all as a society moved to a different concept of what success means. |
eShirl |
Apr-21-10 10:14 AM |
#22 |
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How about if we first stop rewarding it in excess? |
n2doc |
Apr-21-10 10:19 AM |
#32 |
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Ding Ding Ding |
Burma Jones |
Apr-21-10 10:27 AM |
#41 |
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Yes, if "punish" means reasonable, progressive taxation based on income, |
change_notfinetuning |
Apr-21-10 10:21 AM |
#35 |
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I doubt that's what the OP considers punishment |
mainer |
Apr-21-10 10:28 AM |
#42 |
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Certainly Congress, Obama, and all Republicans consider it punishment. It |
change_notfinetuning |
Apr-21-10 10:42 AM |
#50 |
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You don't do tongue-in-cheek much? |
Oregone |
Apr-21-10 10:47 AM |
#51 |
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I think (correct me if I'm wrong) the OP was more aiming at the RW phrase "punish success" |
av8rdave |
Apr-21-10 10:29 AM |
#45 |
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That's how I read it, too. |
GoCubsGo |
Apr-21-10 12:59 PM |
#69 |
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Why not move to a third world country and feed a family of 9 on $1.00 a day...n/t |
Ozymanithrax |
Apr-21-10 10:34 AM |
#47 |
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OK - gimme details |
dmallind |
Apr-21-10 11:04 AM |
#52 |
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No one gets rich in a vacuum |
Cresent City Kid |
Apr-21-10 11:12 AM |
#53 |
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Successful People, |
On the Road |
Apr-21-10 11:19 AM |
#54 |
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Right! Get an education and work hard... |
Zipp |
Apr-21-10 09:46 PM |
#113 |
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Tax wealth, not work |
SocialistLez |
Apr-21-10 11:27 AM |
#55 |
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I've got no problem with taxing both... |
Orsino |
Apr-21-10 11:43 AM |
#59 |
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I see what you're saying and I agree. NT |
SocialistLez |
Apr-21-10 11:53 AM |
#61 |
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I sometimes wonder if these "eat the rich" threads are by GOP trolls |
mainer |
Apr-21-10 11:55 AM |
#62 |
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It plays to everything in 'Atlas Shrugged' by Rand, |
ZeitgeistObserver |
Apr-21-10 12:01 PM |
#63 |
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What a fucking laugh |
blindpig |
Apr-21-10 12:30 PM |
#65 |
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I don't think they are. I think we are Democrats who never bought into Reagan's crap |
laughingliberal |
Apr-21-10 02:49 PM |
#87 |
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I thought it was more of an "Eat the STINKING Rich" kind of thread-LOL |
NoSheep |
Apr-21-10 03:47 PM |
#103 |
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I am Glad Someone Has The Courage To Stand Up for the Rich (TM) |
conspirator |
Apr-21-10 03:57 PM |
#105 |
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LOL |
Lilith Velkor |
Apr-22-10 01:07 AM |
#117 |
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Again you equate wealth to "success" |
Naturyl |
Apr-21-10 05:16 PM |
#108 |
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I've got your back on that |
sui generis |
Apr-22-10 12:16 PM |
#150 |
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Success should not be punished. Benefiting from a lack of fairness is not success. |
jotsy |
Apr-21-10 12:17 PM |
#64 |
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Is taxing wealth punishing success? |
av8rdave |
Apr-21-10 01:31 PM |
#71 |
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I measure by merit, not means. |
jotsy |
Apr-22-10 01:28 AM |
#118 |
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From those to whom much is given, much is expected in return. |
TwilightGardener |
Apr-21-10 12:57 PM |
#68 |
| -
Luke 12:48 |
ZeitgeistObserver |
Apr-21-10 01:29 PM |
#70 |
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Hell I got more taxes back this year than I ever did under Bush! |
B Calm |
Apr-21-10 02:49 PM |
#88 |
| -
A-FUCKING-MEN!!! |
Odin2005 |
Apr-21-10 03:47 PM |
#102 |
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reinvest the investments that made it possible |
Spike89 |
Apr-21-10 05:22 PM |
#109 |
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Hell yes! |
Kitty Herder |
Apr-21-10 05:31 PM |
#110 |
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I'm just amazed at how many on this thread actually defend fat cats |
Wednesdays |
Apr-21-10 11:21 PM |
#115 |
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I'm not. Not at all. |
AngryOldDem |
Apr-22-10 07:38 AM |
#121 |
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yes, and many people who have those resources do. |
sui generis |
Apr-22-10 08:19 AM |
#123 |
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True enough, but... |
AngryOldDem |
Apr-22-10 08:50 AM |
#126 |
| -
I'll agree with that for sure. |
sui generis |
Apr-22-10 09:15 AM |
#137 |
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I agree wholeheartedly with your last paragraph. |
AngryOldDem |
Apr-22-10 11:09 AM |
#147 |
| -
Nice strawman! |
redqueen |
Apr-22-10 08:55 AM |
#129 |
| -
it always amazes me |
sui generis |
Apr-22-10 09:00 AM |
#134 |
| -
Err... |
kenfrequed |
Apr-22-10 09:31 AM |
#139 |
| -
what in hell are you babbling about? |
sui generis |
Apr-22-10 09:51 AM |
#141 |
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Deleted message |
Name removed |
Apr-22-10 10:58 AM |
#144 |
| -
Deleted message |
Name removed |
Apr-22-10 11:04 AM |
#145 |
| -
self delete |
sui generis |
Apr-22-10 11:18 AM |
#148 |
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I think they're greedy and selfish themselves... |
redqueen |
Apr-22-10 08:54 AM |
#128 |
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I have to piss in your wheaties, and I'm not sorry. |
sui generis |
Apr-22-10 08:15 AM |
#122 |
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For those of you trying to dispute the OP with examples of self made millionaires. |
athenasatanjesus |
Apr-22-10 09:47 AM |
#140 |
| -
I would rec if I could |
Taverner |
Apr-23-10 06:33 PM |
#152 |
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