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Reply #60: my response to a similar statement by you, reposted here: [View All]

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RainDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-03-10 09:31 AM
Response to Original message
60. my response to a similar statement by you, reposted here:
I noted:

Democrats won in 2000 and 2004. The reason republicans were in office was because of the Supreme Court and Blackwell and his voter fraud in Ohio.

the party apparently thinks this means that they should move further to the right... because the right cannot win an election honestly.

yet the party continues to pander to the religious right.


however, you respond to me by blaming GOP obstruction on Democrats' failure to govern in a way that the democratic party constituency supports.

As of 2009 only 14% of people in this nation think that abortion should be illegal. yet the HCR bill made a specific point to shit on women with a provision that said that women's health care does not deserve the same respect that men's health care does.

Stupak? Nelson? who the fuck are they? Obama would have the FULL SUPPORT of the majority of the entire nation if he had used his leverage to tell these guys to put up and shut up or they would not be the party's candidate in the next election cycle.

this is the real way politics is done. admit it. you know it's true.

there are major assholes in this nation who think they have the right to enforce their religious beliefs on others.

but guess what? There are more voters who identify as nonbelievers (15%) than there are African-American voters (13%). That number of nonbelievers rises to 18% when labels like agnostic or atheist are not involved (i.e. asking about a specific belief rather than a label... this is from the ARIS survey of 2008, btw.)

This is a HUGE voting bloc that democrats are shitting on.

Nonbelievers make up the THIRD LARGEST group in this nation - when people are categorized by religious affiliation. The two larger groups are Catholic and Baptist. Nonbelievers, studies have shown, have higher levels of education and, thus, income, on average. They have higher levels of IQ on average and have an abhorrence of authoritarian systems - like religion. They do not accept authority merely because authority is claimed.

The number of nonbelievers is increasing in this nation, or, probably more to the point, more and more people have become vocal about their non belief because of the incessant and obnoxious insistence on inserting religion into others' lives by evangelical fundies - most especially in politics.

these stats are out there in study after study of religious belief in this nation.

Nonbelievers are more supportive of equal rights for gays. They are part of the "creative class" that Richard Florida wrote about - that group that creates dynamic places to live, that draws others to those places... the liberal strongholds in major cities - including southern ones - university towns all over the nation...

so now I ask you.

why doesn't the democratic party seek to appeal to this part of the population? As Judis noted, the future belongs to progressives - to the democratic majority. Why is the democratic party stuck in some mid-1990s time warp, unable to see that, after liberals saw what conservatives did to Clinton (not that he was any great progressive, economically) then what liberals saw Bush/Cheney and the Republican Congress do to this nation... they wanted a CORRECTION and a CHECK ON REPUBLICAN/CONSERVATIVE POWER.

WHY pander to the losers?!?!?!?!?

It is a stupid strategy, to me, to suppress the support of those who have things of value to bring to the nation and the democratic party by kowtowing to the vocal yokels that are part of the republican/conservadem noise machine.

It is stupid strategy to create a platform that articulates a set of beliefs and then pretend it doesn't matter when people look at candidates to support.

It is a stupid strategy because it is mired in the past, in the negative bullshit that is Republicanism.

So, if a party employs such a stupid strategy, why should anyone think they are worth voting for? I'm not saying this as a call out to not vote. I'm saying... why alienate those who can do the most for you?

Why give away 250 million to religious idiots whose ideas for sex education are worthless? We know they're worthless because people have examined the outcomes.

I understand that politicians are not really leaders. They are not part of the vanguard, for the most part. Some of them are. They're the ones who get pilloried - but they're still working on the right things. A few pols are, apparently, dumb as a box of bricks. But I thought they were smart about one thing, and that is getting their asses into office.

To this day, so many Americans detest Bush and Cheney and all that they stood for and did - and yet Democrats cannot or will not enact the mandate they were given when they achieved a majority in the legislature and the white house. What was that mandate? To enact Democratic Party platform changes. To turn away from Republican policies.

Those conservatives who run as democrats do not represent the major population bases in this nation. they do not represent the majority opinion on issue after issue - and yet THEY get to decide what the Democratic party may or may not do? Because of a religious belief?

fuck that shit. Obama needs to locate his inner LBJ.

and the democratic party needs to know that they cannot take votes for granted. those votes will not be there when democrats do stupid things like put up anti-choice candidates for office or give in to religious hatred of women. for some people, if those are the choices, then there are no choices.

If someone betrays you enough times, you no longer want to have anything to do with them.

The Democrats have to show themselves worthy of the votes they say they must have to govern. They've had the majority and the presidency and they don't need to waste time on those in this nation who have no desire to govern, who have no answers to problems, who have no desire to deal with the reality of issues like poverty, global warming, lack of health care, financial instability...

Let Fox News throw a fit. They're going to no matter what. They're on the wrong side of history.

Democrats need to get on the right side of history.

It's not Republicans that are turning away Democratic voters. It's the Democrats.

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  -The ONLY message you will be sending by not voting is that Republicans have won. Atman  Apr-02-10 10:58 AM   #0 
  - I feel more disappointed in dems than intimidated by RWers  Nuclear Unicorn   Apr-02-10 11:01 AM   #1 
  - Don't worry, I plan to vote  Bryn   Apr-02-10 11:02 AM   #2 
  - Damn strait!  MUAD_DIB   Apr-02-10 11:31 AM   #20 
  - The Cynicism and Fear the GOP uses is so debiliating and stifling... it sours our National Outlook  opihimoimoi   Apr-02-10 11:03 AM   #3 
  - I don't know about banned...  Nuclear Unicorn   Apr-02-10 11:16 AM   #9 
     - The GOPiacs have stuck themselves on a hard reef w poor odds of  opihimoimoi   Apr-02-10 07:05 PM   #53 
  - I agree, find another way to have a temper tantrum. nt  sufrommich   Apr-02-10 11:03 AM   #4 
  - I thought...  Nuclear Unicorn   Apr-02-10 11:09 AM   #7 
  - Pot meet kettle. Quite the tantrum there stamping your feet demanding  Raineyb   Apr-02-10 11:21 AM   #16 
     - Good point. Make sure to stay home on election day.  MUAD_DIB   Apr-02-10 11:33 AM   #22 
  - It will also send the message that Americans overwhelmingly prefer conservative policies  ecstatic   Apr-02-10 11:03 AM   #5 
  - Apparently everyone believes that's what we prefer even after we gave them  Better Today   Apr-02-10 12:42 PM   #35 
     - They will cater to the base. The RELIABLE base  ecstatic   Apr-02-10 01:47 PM   #49 
        - WTF? I haven't promised to support anyone. Very simply, I also won't promise to  Better Today   Apr-02-10 02:46 PM   #51 
  - IMO, anyone who advocates sitting out an election  Cirque du So-What   Apr-02-10 11:07 AM   #6 
  - +1  get the red out   Apr-02-10 12:06 PM   #28 
  - It is beyond offensive, and I too wish they would find another message board. nt  SPedigrees   Apr-02-10 12:09 PM   #29 
     - NONE OF YOU were on this board before 2007  RainDog   Apr-03-10 09:28 AM   #59 
        - Actually I've been reading this board throughout the Bush years.  SPedigrees   Apr-03-10 01:40 PM   #62 
           - you're tripping  RainDog   Apr-03-10 07:35 PM   #66 
  - Unfortunately I voted for Ralph Nader last presidential election  UndecidedGuy   Apr-02-10 11:15 AM   #8 
  - Did he run in '08?  Bluebear   Apr-02-10 11:16 AM   #10 
     - Yep, he ran as an independent and received over 700,000 votes in 2008.  inna   Apr-02-10 12:25 PM   #34 
  - You're entitled to your opinion.  Birthmark   Apr-02-10 11:17 AM   #11 
  - I'll vote  Individualist   Apr-02-10 11:17 AM   #12 
  - Yawn!  Raineyb   Apr-02-10 11:20 AM   #13 
  - To top it off, WHO is saying "don't vote!!!!1" here?  Bluebear   Apr-02-10 11:21 AM   #14 
  - Indeed. I have never refrained from voting no matter how disgusted I have  Raineyb   Apr-02-10 11:23 AM   #17 
  - word up  frylock   Apr-02-10 12:05 PM   #27 
  - I held my nose to vote for Kerry, after the MSM knocked Howard Dean out of the race.  SPedigrees   Apr-02-10 12:15 PM   #30 
     - No it's called doing the same old thing and expecting something different.d  Raineyb   Apr-02-10 01:38 PM   #47 
        - The same old thing (of voting for 3rd party candidates) yields the  SPedigrees   Apr-03-10 01:45 PM   #64 
  - I read a thread started about that very subject here yesterday  Cirque du So-What   Apr-02-10 01:19 PM   #40 
  - +1  golddigger   Apr-02-10 11:35 AM   #23 
  - agreed. nt  seabeyond   Apr-02-10 11:21 AM   #15 
  - Sorry, that "lesser of two evils" thing doens't work for me anymore.  Peregrine Took   Apr-02-10 11:28 AM   #18 
  - Not the lesser of 2 evils...  Nuclear Unicorn   Apr-02-10 11:30 AM   #19 
  - +1. We're just a year and half since Bush, and some are willing to vote 3rd party.  Dawgs   Apr-02-10 01:08 PM   #39 
  - So you're not going to vote then? Is that what you're implying?  MUAD_DIB   Apr-02-10 02:21 PM   #50 
  - We would not be worried about people sitting out elections if they were seeing a clear choice  laughingliberal   Apr-02-10 11:33 AM   #21 
  - All that is necessary for republicans to triumph is for good men to do nothing. n/t  theothersnippywshrub   Apr-02-10 11:58 AM   #24 
  - Is GD going to be spammed like this from now until November?  Neecy   Apr-02-10 11:59 AM   #25 
  - +1  Individualist   Apr-02-10 12:17 PM   #31 
  - +7  mitchtv   Apr-02-10 12:58 PM   #38 
  - Yes.  Greyhound   Apr-02-10 01:32 PM   #43 
  - Where's the OPs they're supposedly reacting to?  omega minimo   Apr-02-10 07:15 PM   #56 
  - is this the talking point sent out by the dlc this morning?  frylock   Apr-02-10 12:04 PM   #26 
  - I will be voting for Democrats, whoever they are, but . . .  Vinca   Apr-02-10 12:19 PM   #32 
  - I always vote and always vote Democratic and vote for measures  PufPuf23   Apr-02-10 12:20 PM   #33 
  - Yeah sending messages to the Democrats has always worked swell it gave Bush & Reagan...  ProgressOnTheMove   Apr-02-10 12:52 PM   #36 
  - If they're worth voting for, I'll vote for them.  Political Heretic   Apr-02-10 12:55 PM   #37 
  - That IS the bottom line! K&R  CaliforniaPeggy   Apr-02-10 01:29 PM   #41 
  - I vote for the candidate that best represents my views.  Feron   Apr-02-10 01:29 PM   #42 
  - Congratulations on getting a couple dozen people to commit to voting  jgraz   Apr-02-10 01:36 PM   #44 
  - I guess that's why political parties are supposed to stand up for things.  Greyhound   Apr-02-10 01:36 PM   #45 
  - If the candidates want our votes, they're "message" will have to be better than "Not as bad".  Tierra_y_Libertad   Apr-02-10 01:37 PM   #46 
  - That is because it is the message the leaders choose to see  laughingliberal   Apr-02-10 01:43 PM   #48 
  - Nobody owns my vote.  freddie mertz   Apr-02-10 04:05 PM   #52 
  - +1 How the hell do I know who I am going to vote for right now? Obama  walldude   Apr-02-10 07:16 PM   #57 
     - Indeed! I have no idea how I will vite in 3 years either.  freddie mertz   Apr-03-10 08:53 AM   #58 
  - UnRec  leftstreet   Apr-02-10 07:06 PM   #54 
  - Horse Hockey  omega minimo   Apr-02-10 07:13 PM   #55 
  - my response to a similar statement by you, reposted here:  RainDog   Apr-03-10 09:31 AM   #60 
  - This liberal religious person agrees with you  Lydia Leftcoast   Apr-03-10 02:17 PM   #65 
  - They have won!  rusty fender   Apr-03-10 11:27 AM   #61 
  - IMPORTANT: Vote for SOMEBODY. If you don't vote, you aren't counted  Lydia Leftcoast   Apr-03-10 01:45 PM   #63 
  - Well, we need to pressure our "elected officials" to keep their promises.  theophilus   Apr-03-10 07:49 PM   #67 
 

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