Oregone
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Wed Mar-24-10 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #120 |
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I bought in 2003 with 6.125% interest and my payment is $790. If I refi'ed I can get that down below $600, no problem. Its not the universal case for everyone, but a 30 YR load with 4.5% interest isn't a ton in many places in the country, whatsoever, and comparable in terms of price. Now, if you were to create an eligble "exchange" where you only do this for 2BR basic rancher home that are about 1000 SQFT (like a low tier "bronze" plan), sure, then its entirely comparable to the price of health insurance (which costs more for higher deductible plans). Im not exactly sure what the median price is on what would be considered a "bronze" house, but its probably pretty reasonable nationwide.
"Since health care is like a house"
Who said that? Isn't that called a straw man? Seriously...google "logical fallacy" already and get to work.
The point isn't that they are the "same". It is that both problems are symptoms of some basic tenants of capitalism, and that by mandating their purchase and throwing public money at the problem through the private market, its not going to magically fix the problem (and could have some dire market consequences). Further, there are other non-capitalistic approaches that are both cheaper and may be more direct ways to address the problems.
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| -Now we can end homelessness - LET'S MANDATE HOMELESS PEOPLE BUY A HOUSE! |
grahamhgreen |
Mar-24-10 11:05 AM |
#0 |
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The whole thing means little to me |
Cronus Protagonist |
Mar-24-10 11:08 AM |
#1 |
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Subsidize the purchases, guarantee the loans, and tax luxurious 2 bedroom cadillac condos |
Oregone |
Mar-24-10 11:09 AM |
#2 |
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Amen! |
Walk away |
Mar-24-10 02:47 PM |
#100 |
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LOL! good analogy |
amborin |
Mar-24-10 05:28 PM |
#119 |
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Using a mans own words against him is low. My kind of low. n/t |
galileoreloaded |
Mar-24-10 11:10 AM |
#3 |
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+1 |
Ignis |
Mar-24-10 06:03 PM |
#125 |
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The free market works. Or the government will FORCE it to! |
Romulox |
Mar-24-10 11:10 AM |
#4 |
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the context was, he'd argue |
bigtree |
Mar-24-10 11:13 AM |
#5 |
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I don't even think he believed it was part of the solution then |
Oregone |
Mar-24-10 11:16 AM |
#9 |
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it's a cheap shot, I think |
bigtree |
Mar-24-10 11:19 AM |
#15 |
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Politics is a cheap shot |
Oregone |
Mar-24-10 11:21 AM |
#19 |
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I think that a few successes lessen the cynicism |
bigtree |
Mar-24-10 11:28 AM |
#20 |
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Not when the cost of "success" is so high |
Oregone |
Mar-24-10 11:35 AM |
#25 |
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you know that we don't all share the same experiences? |
bigtree |
Mar-24-10 11:55 AM |
#37 |
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The context was that this statement was part of his ongoing |
Bluenorthwest |
Mar-24-10 11:21 AM |
#18 |
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It was part of his ongoing attempt to get elected |
Oregone |
Mar-24-10 11:36 AM |
#27 |
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That is not what he said, but nice try. I can post his own words |
sabrina 1 |
Mar-24-10 11:48 AM |
#33 |
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the proposals he made, and the new law, provides subsidies |
bigtree |
Mar-24-10 12:11 PM |
#48 |
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That excuse, regarding a filibuster |
sabrina 1 |
Mar-24-10 12:25 PM |
#55 |
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How do you 'reconcile' a bill that hasn't yet been passed? |
bigtree |
Mar-24-10 12:28 PM |
#58 |
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Not sure what you mean. |
sabrina 1 |
Mar-24-10 12:56 PM |
#62 |
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We can (still) expand Medicare in reconcilliation, at any time. |
grahamhgreen |
Mar-24-10 01:27 PM |
#68 |
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Good lord... how Orwellian! |
Kurt_and_Hunter |
Mar-24-10 02:55 PM |
#103 |
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Obama is doubleplusgood thinker! |
readmoreoften |
Mar-24-10 11:32 PM |
#134 |
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If it would get subsidies to help those who cannot afford a house |
liberal N proud |
Mar-24-10 11:13 AM |
#6 |
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Yes, because that wouldn't create a disasterous bubble with massive private profits everywhere |
Oregone |
Mar-24-10 11:18 AM |
#13 |
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Wouldn't it create jobs building those homes? |
liberal N proud |
Mar-24-10 11:21 AM |
#17 |
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So? |
Oregone |
Mar-24-10 11:28 AM |
#21 |
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Massive excess home inventory is the problem now. We don't NEED any new homes. n/t |
galileoreloaded |
Mar-24-10 11:34 AM |
#23 |
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It was called "the housing bubble" n/t |
brentspeak |
Mar-24-10 05:41 PM |
#121 |
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Of course your not addressing the cost solution proposed in the bill, you change the subject to some |
uponit7771 |
Mar-24-10 11:54 AM |
#35 |
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There is no real cost solution in the bill |
Oregone |
Mar-24-10 12:00 PM |
#42 |
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There ARE subsidies to make purchasing the insurance more affordable for lower income folk, you guys |
uponit7771 |
Mar-24-10 12:01 PM |
#43 |
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Subsidies are not costs controls! |
Oregone |
Mar-24-10 12:05 PM |
#45 |
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For the pooer individual they are...the subject wasn't budgetary cost controls. Those at the top pay |
uponit7771 |
Mar-24-10 12:10 PM |
#47 |
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I don't think you understand what "costs controls" mean |
Oregone |
Mar-24-10 12:16 PM |
#51 |
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Yeah, screw people. If everyone owns a home, then prices will go up! |
Renew Deal |
Mar-24-10 01:39 PM |
#71 |
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While people are your political football, you don't understand the implications in capitalism |
Oregone |
Mar-24-10 02:24 PM |
#86 |
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I don't advocate mandated home ownership |
Renew Deal |
Mar-24-10 02:53 PM |
#102 |
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"I'm just pointing out the callousness and ridiculousness of the assertion that ending homelessness" |
Oregone |
Mar-24-10 03:14 PM |
#111 |
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you have now officially lost your mind |
TorchTheWitch |
Mar-24-10 11:31 PM |
#133 |
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We should always go over the deep end on everything |
lunatica |
Mar-24-10 11:14 AM |
#7 |
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indeed. while we're at it, let's lower the poverty level |
anarch |
Mar-24-10 11:15 AM |
#8 |
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I believe it's based now, primarily, on the cost of food |
bigtree |
Mar-24-10 11:17 AM |
#11 |
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And if they can't afford a house... |
followthemoney |
Mar-24-10 11:16 AM |
#10 |
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My understanding is that it's going to make more a few million more people eligible for Medicare. |
BurtWorm |
Mar-24-10 11:18 AM |
#12 |
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No. No changes to the standards for getting Medicare |
Bluenorthwest |
Mar-24-10 11:35 AM |
#24 |
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This is what the NY Times reported today |
BurtWorm |
Mar-24-10 11:39 AM |
#31 |
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Yes, medic AID |
Bluenorthwest |
Mar-24-10 11:52 AM |
#34 |
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Similar enough, you know what the point the person is trying to make |
uponit7771 |
Mar-24-10 11:55 AM |
# |
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There is one big difference. |
BurtWorm |
Mar-24-10 11:59 AM |
#41 |
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Some doctors wont see patience with UHC insurance either, so what? You guys are now arguin symantics |
uponit7771 |
Mar-24-10 12:02 PM |
#44 |
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There is a real difference between Medicaid and Medicare, though. |
BurtWorm |
Mar-24-10 12:14 PM |
#49 |
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Right. I made a mistake. |
BurtWorm |
Mar-24-10 11:57 AM |
#39 |
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I've been told differently by my congressman's office... |
misanthrope |
Mar-24-10 12:16 PM |
#52 |
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. |
dionysus |
Mar-24-10 11:19 AM |
#14 |
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naw, we should mandate that the homeless rent apartments |
northernlights |
Mar-24-10 11:20 AM |
#16 |
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Deleted sub-thread |
Name removed |
Mar-24-10 11:32 AM |
#22 |
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God, I never thought |
frazzled |
Mar-24-10 11:36 AM |
#26 |
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Explain the stupidity here of Obama's quote |
Oregone |
Mar-24-10 11:39 AM |
#30 |
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*crickets* |
Starry Messenger |
Mar-24-10 05:50 PM |
#123 |
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And I never thought so many people on the left would support |
Marr |
Mar-24-10 01:16 PM |
#65 |
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You are talking about Obama's argument, right? |
grahamhgreen |
Mar-24-10 01:40 PM |
#72 |
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Oops! n/t |
QC |
Mar-25-10 09:06 AM |
#138 |
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And, hunger. Mandate Beef Wellington and Crepes Suzette! k&r |
Tierra_y_Libertad |
Mar-24-10 11:37 AM |
#28 |
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You've made yourself look pretty silly. How about organizing |
DevonRex |
Mar-24-10 11:39 AM |
#29 |
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My suggestion is bipartisan - remove the mandate, keep the rest of the reforms. |
grahamhgreen |
Mar-24-10 01:42 PM |
#73 |
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We can if we subsidize people below 4 times the poverty level. |
tinrobot |
Mar-24-10 11:42 AM |
#32 |
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Then we can declare... |
branders seine |
Mar-24-10 11:55 AM |
#36 |
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*********************PEOPLE WILL BE GIVEN SUBSIDIES TO HELP WITH AFFORDABILITY!!!******* |
uponit7771 |
Mar-24-10 11:56 AM |
#38 |
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wrong |
optimator |
Mar-24-10 11:58 AM |
#40 |
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False, people ALREADY get subsidies for HCI the new HCR will EXTEND them (Link and quote) |
uponit7771 |
Mar-24-10 12:07 PM |
#46 |
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i have the HCR bill in front of me |
optimator |
Mar-24-10 12:15 PM |
#50 |
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I'm not sure if you're trying to make the technical point that they are actually "tax credits" |
Political Heretic |
Mar-24-10 05:28 PM |
#118 |
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I just found state subsidy programs in the bill |
OmmmSweetOmmm |
Mar-24-10 01:36 PM |
#69 |
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It's not a subsidy, but a tax credit which can be a hardship for some people. |
OmmmSweetOmmm |
Mar-24-10 01:44 PM |
#75 |
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Yep. Gotta buy the product first, THEN send away for the 'rebate' |
havocmom |
Mar-25-10 09:14 AM |
#139 |
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It ticks me off that there has been so much disinformation on this by "knowledgeable" |
OmmmSweetOmmm |
Mar-25-10 07:24 PM |
#141 |
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It's not really a subsidy but a tax credit. One has to either manipulate their W4 to increase |
OmmmSweetOmmm |
Mar-24-10 01:43 PM |
#74 |
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*********************SO FUCKING WHAT, THAT DOESN'T CHANGE ANYTHING BEING DISCUSSED HERE!!!******* |
Kurt_and_Hunter |
Mar-24-10 03:15 PM |
#112 |
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CBPP called the subsidies grossly insufficient and difficult for the poor. |
Political Heretic |
Mar-24-10 05:27 PM |
#117 |
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Deleted message |
Name removed |
Mar-24-10 12:18 PM |
#53 |
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G.Carlin: "Just buy em one-a those cardboard boxes they like to live in" |
Echo In Light |
Mar-24-10 12:18 PM |
#54 |
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We can also now end poverty.... |
demgurl |
Mar-24-10 12:26 PM |
#56 |
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Subsidies for housing.... |
Jeff In Milwaukee |
Mar-24-10 12:28 PM |
#57 |
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I would say the latter. We are mandated to have auto insurance as well. |
Jennicut |
Mar-24-10 12:31 PM |
#59 |
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I know, I can barely afford it for my 3 year old. |
Oregone |
Mar-24-10 12:36 PM |
#60 |
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Oh, for fuck's sake |
DatManFromNawlins |
Mar-24-10 12:53 PM |
#61 |
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Fine. I really don't care about the mandates. For my medical condition, the costs in meds |
Jennicut |
Mar-24-10 01:17 PM |
#66 |
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Poor Ezra - there is a serious logical flaw in his argument. There is no reason to suugest that |
grahamhgreen |
Mar-24-10 01:52 PM |
#76 |
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LOL cinnamon |
Egnever |
Mar-24-10 01:58 PM |
#78 |
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Who will be doing the accounting concernign the MLR caps? The insurance companies |
grahamhgreen |
Mar-24-10 02:21 PM |
#84 |
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The bill is not perfect, eventually we will need a public option. |
Jennicut |
Mar-24-10 02:40 PM |
#95 |
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Off topic but |
Egnever |
Mar-24-10 01:54 PM |
#77 |
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I am looking at an Omnipod. Cigna may cover it but I was misdiagnosed as a type |
Jennicut |
Mar-24-10 02:45 PM |
#99 |
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Crazy! |
Egnever |
Mar-24-10 10:27 PM |
#131 |
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What you said! +1! |
OmmmSweetOmmm |
Mar-24-10 02:24 PM |
#87 |
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We are not. |
beevul |
Mar-25-10 12:30 AM |
#135 |
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Not my point - the Presidents. |
grahamhgreen |
Mar-24-10 01:37 PM |
#70 |
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Deleted message |
Name removed |
Mar-24-10 02:39 PM |
#94 |
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Once again, you miss the point of the mandate |
Hippo_Tron |
Mar-24-10 01:00 PM |
#63 |
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Where is the evidence to support the claim that "People would just wait until they get sick to buy |
grahamhgreen |
Mar-24-10 01:15 PM |
#64 |
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Maybe getting rid of pre-existing conditions was only way to make mandate work |
Oregone |
Mar-24-10 01:18 PM |
#67 |
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Of course, if we had a national health plan, |
LWolf |
Mar-24-10 02:02 PM |
#81 |
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I been posting thes qustion about evidence to support this claim for months, so far |
grahamhgreen |
Mar-24-10 02:14 PM |
#83 |
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K & R nt |
LWolf |
Mar-24-10 01:59 PM |
#79 |
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Could you please link to the quote source... |
SidDithers |
Mar-24-10 02:01 PM |
#80 |
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Link - with video! |
grahamhgreen |
Mar-24-10 02:12 PM |
#82 |
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Thank you... |
SidDithers |
Mar-24-10 02:22 PM |
#85 |
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Me too! |
grahamhgreen |
Mar-24-10 02:26 PM |
#89 |
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.... |
OmmmSweetOmmm |
Mar-24-10 02:26 PM |
#90 |
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We do mandate house purchases, more strongly than the health care bill mandates insurance |
Recursion |
Mar-24-10 02:25 PM |
#88 |
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Until you do the math and realize amortized interest on a home loan is 150% of principle |
Oregone |
Mar-24-10 02:39 PM |
#93 |
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That's a semantic game |
Recursion |
Mar-24-10 02:42 PM |
#96 |
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"Why is it being called a mandate for health insurance but not for home ownership" |
Oregone |
Mar-24-10 02:44 PM |
#98 |
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Taxes are being used to encourage behavior |
Recursion |
Mar-24-10 02:50 PM |
#101 |
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You save nothing in taxes from buying a home |
Oregone |
Mar-24-10 02:56 PM |
#104 |
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You get a tax credit on the mortgage interest every year... |
JuniperLea |
Mar-24-10 02:57 PM |
#105 |
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You must of missed reading that: |
Oregone |
Mar-24-10 03:03 PM |
#108 |
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OK, so it's a mortgage mandate. That's even worse... NT |
Recursion |
Mar-24-10 03:01 PM |
#106 |
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Except for people in public housing, or on housing assistance |
Oregone |
Mar-24-10 03:07 PM |
#109 |
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And people who can't afford to buy insurance will get it fully (or nearly so) subsidized |
Recursion |
Mar-24-10 03:46 PM |
#114 |
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Which may solve very little |
Oregone |
Mar-24-10 03:51 PM |
#115 |
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If it were being subsidized |
treestar |
Mar-24-10 02:26 PM |
#91 |
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Thats absurd. Its absolutely absurd |
Oregone |
Mar-24-10 02:35 PM |
#92 |
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The government gives people food stamps and expects them to use them |
treestar |
Mar-24-10 05:24 PM |
#116 |
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It depends if the creation, production, and distribution of those products would cost less than |
Oregone |
Mar-24-10 06:17 PM |
#126 |
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Hey, we can end unemployment that way too! Mandate that everyone find a |
Lorien |
Mar-24-10 02:43 PM |
#97 |
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Monster dunk post. |
Karmadillo |
Mar-24-10 03:02 PM |
#107 |
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Ever heard of |
ProSense |
Mar-24-10 03:11 PM |
#110 |
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Many homes do already cost $8000 |
Oregone |
Mar-24-10 03:22 PM |
#113 |
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"$8000 a year that is...." Really? |
ProSense |
Mar-24-10 05:39 PM |
#120 |
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Yeah, really |
Oregone |
Mar-24-10 06:03 PM |
#124 |
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"I bought in 2003 with 6.125% interest and my payment is $790." |
ProSense |
Mar-24-10 06:30 PM |
#127 |
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And if I refied, it would be about $590, but you don't want to include that. |
Oregone |
Mar-24-10 06:41 PM |
#129 |
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Deleted message |
Name removed |
Mar-24-10 05:47 PM |
#122 |
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The thing I like most about Obama is that he's WILLING to admit |
johnaries |
Mar-24-10 06:37 PM |
#128 |
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The insurance companies were right before Obama realized his mistake ... |
slipslidingaway |
Mar-24-10 07:00 PM |
#130 |
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Let's get rid of all governments |
Naturalist111 |
Mar-24-10 11:25 PM |
#132 |
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That would be a great, historic first step. |
BlueIris |
Mar-25-10 02:53 AM |
#136 |
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Housing prices would go through the roof - just like insurance stocks are now....! |
grahamhgreen |
Mar-25-10 08:57 AM |
#137 |
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Some people |
Naturalist111 |
Mar-25-10 03:02 PM |
#140 |