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Reply #20: I think that a few successes lessen the cynicism [View All]

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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-24-10 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. I think that a few successes lessen the cynicism
And I further believe, as the President stated yesterday, that the public will see how hyped the rhetoric against the legislation was and I think that will help generate confidence among members of the legislature, as well, which could spark more action. We've been made to believe for the past two terms that government is incapable of changing and responding responsibly to changes. I already see a new attitude and tone from this administration which may inspire a political renaissance in our party and beyond. I don't think we have anything to lose by remaining optimistic about our own ability to influence our Democratic legislators to action.
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  -Now we can end homelessness - LET'S MANDATE HOMELESS PEOPLE BUY A HOUSE! grahamhgreen  Mar-24-10 11:05 AM   #0 
  - The whole thing means little to me  Cronus Protagonist   Mar-24-10 11:08 AM   #1 
  - Subsidize the purchases, guarantee the loans, and tax luxurious 2 bedroom cadillac condos  Oregone   Mar-24-10 11:09 AM   #2 
  - Amen!  Walk away   Mar-24-10 02:47 PM   #100 
  - LOL! good analogy  amborin   Mar-24-10 05:28 PM   #119 
  - Using a mans own words against him is low. My kind of low. n/t  galileoreloaded   Mar-24-10 11:10 AM   #3 
  - +1  Ignis   Mar-24-10 06:03 PM   #125 
  - The free market works. Or the government will FORCE it to!  Romulox   Mar-24-10 11:10 AM   #4 
  - the context was, he'd argue  bigtree   Mar-24-10 11:13 AM   #5 
  - I don't even think he believed it was part of the solution then  Oregone   Mar-24-10 11:16 AM   #9 
  - it's a cheap shot, I think  bigtree   Mar-24-10 11:19 AM   #15 
     - Politics is a cheap shot  Oregone   Mar-24-10 11:21 AM   #19 
        - I think that a few successes lessen the cynicism  bigtree   Mar-24-10 11:28 AM   #20 
           - Not when the cost of "success" is so high  Oregone   Mar-24-10 11:35 AM   #25 
              - you know that we don't all share the same experiences?  bigtree   Mar-24-10 11:55 AM   #37 
  - The context was that this statement was part of his ongoing  Bluenorthwest   Mar-24-10 11:21 AM   #18 
  - It was part of his ongoing attempt to get elected  Oregone   Mar-24-10 11:36 AM   #27 
  - That is not what he said, but nice try. I can post his own words  sabrina 1   Mar-24-10 11:48 AM   #33 
  - the proposals he made, and the new law, provides subsidies  bigtree   Mar-24-10 12:11 PM   #48 
     - That excuse, regarding a filibuster  sabrina 1   Mar-24-10 12:25 PM   #55 
        - How do you 'reconcile' a bill that hasn't yet been passed?  bigtree   Mar-24-10 12:28 PM   #58 
           - Not sure what you mean.  sabrina 1   Mar-24-10 12:56 PM   #62 
           - We can (still) expand Medicare in reconcilliation, at any time.  grahamhgreen   Mar-24-10 01:27 PM   #68 
  - Good lord... how Orwellian!  Kurt_and_Hunter   Mar-24-10 02:55 PM   #103 
  - Obama is doubleplusgood thinker!  readmoreoften   Mar-24-10 11:32 PM   #134 
  - If it would get subsidies to help those who cannot afford a house  liberal N proud   Mar-24-10 11:13 AM   #6 
  - Yes, because that wouldn't create a disasterous bubble with massive private profits everywhere  Oregone   Mar-24-10 11:18 AM   #13 
  - Wouldn't it create jobs building those homes?  liberal N proud   Mar-24-10 11:21 AM   #17 
  - So?  Oregone   Mar-24-10 11:28 AM   #21 
  - Massive excess home inventory is the problem now. We don't NEED any new homes. n/t  galileoreloaded   Mar-24-10 11:34 AM   #23 
  - It was called "the housing bubble" n/t  brentspeak   Mar-24-10 05:41 PM   #121 
  - Of course your not addressing the cost solution proposed in the bill, you change the subject to some  uponit7771   Mar-24-10 11:54 AM   #35 
  - There is no real cost solution in the bill  Oregone   Mar-24-10 12:00 PM   #42 
     - There ARE subsidies to make purchasing the insurance more affordable for lower income folk, you guys  uponit7771   Mar-24-10 12:01 PM   #43 
        - Subsidies are not costs controls!  Oregone   Mar-24-10 12:05 PM   #45 
           - For the pooer individual they are...the subject wasn't budgetary cost controls. Those at the top pay  uponit7771   Mar-24-10 12:10 PM   #47 
              - I don't think you understand what "costs controls" mean  Oregone   Mar-24-10 12:16 PM   #51 
  - Yeah, screw people. If everyone owns a home, then prices will go up!  Renew Deal   Mar-24-10 01:39 PM   #71 
     - While people are your political football, you don't understand the implications in capitalism  Oregone   Mar-24-10 02:24 PM   #86 
        - I don't advocate mandated home ownership  Renew Deal   Mar-24-10 02:53 PM   #102 
           - "I'm just pointing out the callousness and ridiculousness of the assertion that ending homelessness"  Oregone   Mar-24-10 03:14 PM   #111 
  - you have now officially lost your mind  TorchTheWitch   Mar-24-10 11:31 PM   #133 
  - We should always go over the deep end on everything  lunatica   Mar-24-10 11:14 AM   #7 
  - indeed. while we're at it, let's lower the poverty level  anarch   Mar-24-10 11:15 AM   #8 
  - I believe it's based now, primarily, on the cost of food  bigtree   Mar-24-10 11:17 AM   #11 
  - And if they can't afford a house...  followthemoney   Mar-24-10 11:16 AM   #10 
  - My understanding is that it's going to make more a few million more people eligible for Medicare.  BurtWorm   Mar-24-10 11:18 AM   #12 
  - No. No changes to the standards for getting Medicare  Bluenorthwest   Mar-24-10 11:35 AM   #24 
     - This is what the NY Times reported today  BurtWorm   Mar-24-10 11:39 AM   #31 
        - Yes, medic AID  Bluenorthwest   Mar-24-10 11:52 AM   #34 
           - Similar enough, you know what the point the person is trying to make  uponit7771   Mar-24-10 11:55 AM   # 
           - There is one big difference.  BurtWorm   Mar-24-10 11:59 AM   #41 
              - Some doctors wont see patience with UHC insurance either, so what? You guys are now arguin symantics  uponit7771   Mar-24-10 12:02 PM   #44 
                 - There is a real difference between Medicaid and Medicare, though.  BurtWorm   Mar-24-10 12:14 PM   #49 
           - Right. I made a mistake.  BurtWorm   Mar-24-10 11:57 AM   #39 
           - I've been told differently by my congressman's office...  misanthrope   Mar-24-10 12:16 PM   #52 
  - .  dionysus   Mar-24-10 11:19 AM   #14 
  - naw, we should mandate that the homeless rent apartments  northernlights   Mar-24-10 11:20 AM   #16 
  - Deleted sub-thread  Name removed   Mar-24-10 11:32 AM   #22 
  - God, I never thought  frazzled   Mar-24-10 11:36 AM   #26 
  - Explain the stupidity here of Obama's quote  Oregone   Mar-24-10 11:39 AM   #30 
  - *crickets*  Starry Messenger   Mar-24-10 05:50 PM   #123 
  - And I never thought so many people on the left would support  Marr   Mar-24-10 01:16 PM   #65 
  - You are talking about Obama's argument, right?  grahamhgreen   Mar-24-10 01:40 PM   #72 
     - Oops! n/t  QC   Mar-25-10 09:06 AM   #138 
  - And, hunger. Mandate Beef Wellington and Crepes Suzette! k&r  Tierra_y_Libertad   Mar-24-10 11:37 AM   #28 
  - You've made yourself look pretty silly. How about organizing  DevonRex   Mar-24-10 11:39 AM   #29 
  - My suggestion is bipartisan - remove the mandate, keep the rest of the reforms.  grahamhgreen   Mar-24-10 01:42 PM   #73 
  - We can if we subsidize people below 4 times the poverty level.  tinrobot   Mar-24-10 11:42 AM   #32 
  - Then we can declare...  branders seine   Mar-24-10 11:55 AM   #36 
  - *********************PEOPLE WILL BE GIVEN SUBSIDIES TO HELP WITH AFFORDABILITY!!!*******  uponit7771   Mar-24-10 11:56 AM   #38 
  - wrong  optimator   Mar-24-10 11:58 AM   #40 
  - False, people ALREADY get subsidies for HCI the new HCR will EXTEND them (Link and quote)  uponit7771   Mar-24-10 12:07 PM   #46 
  - i have the HCR bill in front of me  optimator   Mar-24-10 12:15 PM   #50 
     - I'm not sure if you're trying to make the technical point that they are actually "tax credits"  Political Heretic   Mar-24-10 05:28 PM   #118 
  - I just found state subsidy programs in the bill  OmmmSweetOmmm   Mar-24-10 01:36 PM   #69 
  - It's not a subsidy, but a tax credit which can be a hardship for some people.  OmmmSweetOmmm   Mar-24-10 01:44 PM   #75 
     - Yep. Gotta buy the product first, THEN send away for the 'rebate'  havocmom   Mar-25-10 09:14 AM   #139 
        - It ticks me off that there has been so much disinformation on this by "knowledgeable"  OmmmSweetOmmm   Mar-25-10 07:24 PM   #141 
  - It's not really a subsidy but a tax credit. One has to either manipulate their W4 to increase  OmmmSweetOmmm   Mar-24-10 01:43 PM   #74 
  - *********************SO FUCKING WHAT, THAT DOESN'T CHANGE ANYTHING BEING DISCUSSED HERE!!!*******  Kurt_and_Hunter   Mar-24-10 03:15 PM   #112 
  - CBPP called the subsidies grossly insufficient and difficult for the poor.  Political Heretic   Mar-24-10 05:27 PM   #117 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Mar-24-10 12:18 PM   #53 
  - G.Carlin: "Just buy em one-a those cardboard boxes they like to live in"  Echo In Light   Mar-24-10 12:18 PM   #54 
  - We can also now end poverty....  demgurl   Mar-24-10 12:26 PM   #56 
  - Subsidies for housing....  Jeff In Milwaukee   Mar-24-10 12:28 PM   #57 
  - I would say the latter. We are mandated to have auto insurance as well.  Jennicut   Mar-24-10 12:31 PM   #59 
  - I know, I can barely afford it for my 3 year old.  Oregone   Mar-24-10 12:36 PM   #60 
  - Oh, for fuck's sake  DatManFromNawlins   Mar-24-10 12:53 PM   #61 
  - Fine. I really don't care about the mandates. For my medical condition, the costs in meds  Jennicut   Mar-24-10 01:17 PM   #66 
  - Poor Ezra - there is a serious logical flaw in his argument. There is no reason to suugest that  grahamhgreen   Mar-24-10 01:52 PM   #76 
  - LOL cinnamon  Egnever   Mar-24-10 01:58 PM   #78 
  - Who will be doing the accounting concernign the MLR caps? The insurance companies  grahamhgreen   Mar-24-10 02:21 PM   #84 
  - The bill is not perfect, eventually we will need a public option.  Jennicut   Mar-24-10 02:40 PM   #95 
  - Off topic but  Egnever   Mar-24-10 01:54 PM   #77 
     - I am looking at an Omnipod. Cigna may cover it but I was misdiagnosed as a type  Jennicut   Mar-24-10 02:45 PM   #99 
        - Crazy!  Egnever   Mar-24-10 10:27 PM   #131 
  - What you said! +1!  OmmmSweetOmmm   Mar-24-10 02:24 PM   #87 
  - We are not.  beevul   Mar-25-10 12:30 AM   #135 
  - Not my point - the Presidents.  grahamhgreen   Mar-24-10 01:37 PM   #70 
     - Deleted message  Name removed   Mar-24-10 02:39 PM   #94 
  - Once again, you miss the point of the mandate  Hippo_Tron   Mar-24-10 01:00 PM   #63 
  - Where is the evidence to support the claim that "People would just wait until they get sick to buy  grahamhgreen   Mar-24-10 01:15 PM   #64 
  - Maybe getting rid of pre-existing conditions was only way to make mandate work  Oregone   Mar-24-10 01:18 PM   #67 
  - Of course, if we had a national health plan,  LWolf   Mar-24-10 02:02 PM   #81 
  - I been posting thes qustion about evidence to support this claim for months, so far  grahamhgreen   Mar-24-10 02:14 PM   #83 
  - K & R nt  LWolf   Mar-24-10 01:59 PM   #79 
  - Could you please link to the quote source...  SidDithers   Mar-24-10 02:01 PM   #80 
  - Link - with video!  grahamhgreen   Mar-24-10 02:12 PM   #82 
     - Thank you...  SidDithers   Mar-24-10 02:22 PM   #85 
     - Me too!  grahamhgreen   Mar-24-10 02:26 PM   #89 
     - ....  OmmmSweetOmmm   Mar-24-10 02:26 PM   #90 
  - We do mandate house purchases, more strongly than the health care bill mandates insurance  Recursion   Mar-24-10 02:25 PM   #88 
  - Until you do the math and realize amortized interest on a home loan is 150% of principle  Oregone   Mar-24-10 02:39 PM   #93 
     - That's a semantic game  Recursion   Mar-24-10 02:42 PM   #96 
        - "Why is it being called a mandate for health insurance but not for home ownership"  Oregone   Mar-24-10 02:44 PM   #98 
           - Taxes are being used to encourage behavior  Recursion   Mar-24-10 02:50 PM   #101 
              - You save nothing in taxes from buying a home  Oregone   Mar-24-10 02:56 PM   #104 
                 - You get a tax credit on the mortgage interest every year...  JuniperLea   Mar-24-10 02:57 PM   #105 
                 - You must of missed reading that:  Oregone   Mar-24-10 03:03 PM   #108 
                 - OK, so it's a mortgage mandate. That's even worse... NT  Recursion   Mar-24-10 03:01 PM   #106 
                    - Except for people in public housing, or on housing assistance  Oregone   Mar-24-10 03:07 PM   #109 
                       - And people who can't afford to buy insurance will get it fully (or nearly so) subsidized  Recursion   Mar-24-10 03:46 PM   #114 
                          - Which may solve very little  Oregone   Mar-24-10 03:51 PM   #115 
  - If it were being subsidized  treestar   Mar-24-10 02:26 PM   #91 
  - Thats absurd. Its absolutely absurd  Oregone   Mar-24-10 02:35 PM   #92 
     - The government gives people food stamps and expects them to use them  treestar   Mar-24-10 05:24 PM   #116 
        - It depends if the creation, production, and distribution of those products would cost less than  Oregone   Mar-24-10 06:17 PM   #126 
  - Hey, we can end unemployment that way too! Mandate that everyone find a  Lorien   Mar-24-10 02:43 PM   #97 
  - Monster dunk post.  Karmadillo   Mar-24-10 03:02 PM   #107 
  - Ever heard of  ProSense   Mar-24-10 03:11 PM   #110 
  - Many homes do already cost $8000  Oregone   Mar-24-10 03:22 PM   #113 
     - "$8000 a year that is...." Really?  ProSense   Mar-24-10 05:39 PM   #120 
        - Yeah, really  Oregone   Mar-24-10 06:03 PM   #124 
           - "I bought in 2003 with 6.125% interest and my payment is $790."  ProSense   Mar-24-10 06:30 PM   #127 
              - And if I refied, it would be about $590, but you don't want to include that.  Oregone   Mar-24-10 06:41 PM   #129 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Mar-24-10 05:47 PM   #122 
  - The thing I like most about Obama is that he's WILLING to admit  johnaries   Mar-24-10 06:37 PM   #128 
  - The insurance companies were right before Obama realized his mistake ...  slipslidingaway   Mar-24-10 07:00 PM   #130 
  - Let's get rid of all governments  Naturalist111   Mar-24-10 11:25 PM   #132 
  - That would be a great, historic first step.  BlueIris   Mar-25-10 02:53 AM   #136 
     - Housing prices would go through the roof - just like insurance stocks are now....!  grahamhgreen   Mar-25-10 08:57 AM   #137 
     - Some people  Naturalist111   Mar-25-10 03:02 PM   #140 

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