stopbush
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Tue Mar-23-10 12:42 AM
Response to Original message |
| 69. The Senate version would have never gotten the 60 votes needed with a PO, |
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let alone single payer.
You forget that much of the compromises made in the Senate version were made to get conservative Ds to vote for the bill.
The fact is that R votes were irrelevant to this process at every step of the way. That's obvious as the whole thing passed without a single R vote in either house.
|
| -Yesterday's bill got exactly as many Republican votes as Single Payer would've |
Cal Carpenter |
Mar-22-10 01:51 PM |
#0 |
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too bad the Democrats aren't able to go that bold |
quinnox |
Mar-22-10 01:53 PM |
#1 |
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It was never going to be put up for a vote, remember? |
EFerrari |
Mar-22-10 01:56 PM |
#4 |
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It got a hell of a lot more Democrat votes than single payer would have though. |
LostInAnomie |
Mar-22-10 01:55 PM |
#2 |
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Ding ding ding. We have a winner. |
democrat_patriot |
Mar-22-10 02:15 PM |
#10 |
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But why not? |
Cal Carpenter |
Mar-22-10 02:23 PM |
#15 |
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there are a lot of provisions that piecemeal that "better than the status quo" |
MH1 |
Mar-23-10 11:51 AM |
#118 |
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Yeah, remember Joe "I'll filibuster ya" Lieberman? |
Zambero |
Mar-22-10 11:40 PM |
#61 |
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the current bill seems to make a trade... |
paulkienitz |
Mar-23-10 01:38 PM |
#132 |
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"lower cost" = defunding medicare & cutting services. |
Hannah Bell |
Mar-25-10 02:32 AM |
#142 |
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Remind me again what the heck does the Dem party stand for? |
liberation |
Mar-23-10 01:09 AM |
#71 |
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Right now the Democrats pretty much stand for fabuous |
truedelphi |
Mar-23-10 02:17 AM |
#74 |
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+100,000 |
Starry Messenger |
Mar-23-10 05:12 AM |
#83 |
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Democrats = Lowered Expectations... and Lower and lower and lower and lower... |
theFrankFactor |
Mar-23-10 10:43 AM |
#104 |
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It is not the lowered expectations I have an issue with... |
liberation |
Mar-23-10 11:19 AM |
#112 |
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We need at least 2/3 Dem majorities in both Houses of Congress |
Zambero |
Mar-23-10 07:20 PM |
#138 |
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Which should be highlighting the problem we have inside the party |
laughingliberal |
Mar-22-10 02:19 PM |
#14 |
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Yup |
Enthusiast |
Mar-23-10 03:52 AM |
#78 |
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Precisely! It Has to Come From OUT HERE! From Us! |
theFrankFactor |
Mar-23-10 10:44 AM |
#105 |
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How do we know unless we tried? |
RaleighNCDUer |
Mar-22-10 02:26 PM |
#16 |
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You only get one bite at the apple. |
LostInAnomie |
Mar-22-10 02:41 PM |
#24 |
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Bull. |
RaleighNCDUer |
Mar-22-10 03:23 PM |
#28 |
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Haha... right. |
LostInAnomie |
Mar-22-10 03:59 PM |
#34 |
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Agreed. n/t |
Cali_Democrat |
Mar-22-10 04:52 PM |
#39 |
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And we have a right-leaning Democratic Congress thanks to Rahm Emanuel |
Jackpine Radical |
Mar-23-10 08:26 AM |
#91 |
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How does that even make logical sense? |
liberation |
Mar-23-10 10:21 AM |
#100 |
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It's BULL SHIT! That's The Thinking (non-thinking) That Has Put Us Where We Are! |
theFrankFactor |
Mar-23-10 10:53 AM |
#106 |
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"New Democrat" |
Ticonderoga |
Mar-23-10 11:20 AM |
#113 |
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I agree: this whole thing is ass-backwards. |
ChadwickHenryWard |
Mar-23-10 12:30 PM |
#122 |
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Proper negotiations |
kenfrequed |
Mar-23-10 10:54 AM |
#107 |
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haha... right |
mistajefferson |
Mar-23-10 01:12 PM |
#126 |
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The Dems began negotiations from a compromise position. Begin weak, end weak. Begin strong... |
ClassWarrior |
Mar-24-10 10:23 AM |
#141 |
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Absolutely right. |
ChadwickHenryWard |
Mar-23-10 08:42 AM |
#93 |
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No, that is not how the real world works.... |
liberation |
Mar-23-10 10:18 AM |
#99 |
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It would have won. |
Enthusiast |
Mar-23-10 03:53 AM |
#79 |
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not in the senate... it might only get 20 votes (nt) |
paulkienitz |
Mar-23-10 01:44 PM |
#133 |
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So the REAL problem was NEVER the Republicans. |
bvar22 |
Mar-22-10 04:38 PM |
#36 |
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Bingo. We're not all on the same page about which system is best |
ecstatic |
Mar-22-10 04:45 PM |
#38 |
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am I the only one who thinks a strong public option would be better than single payer? |
paulkienitz |
Mar-23-10 02:06 PM |
#134 |
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Yes and no. From the competition standpoint, it's |
ecstatic |
Mar-23-10 02:17 PM |
#135 |
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What a horribly myopic take on the last year. |
LostInAnomie |
Mar-22-10 05:15 PM |
#41 |
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Thank god! |
HughMoran |
Mar-22-10 06:18 PM |
#45 |
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Today's Democratic party |
Zambero |
Mar-22-10 11:54 PM |
#62 |
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My sentiments exactly. |
Enthusiast |
Mar-23-10 03:57 AM |
#80 |
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As it is we lost 34 |
HughMoran |
Mar-22-10 06:17 PM |
#44 |
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Yep |
iamthebandfanman |
Mar-23-10 03:46 AM |
#77 |
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Exactly. |
October |
Mar-23-10 08:42 AM |
#92 |
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Please, how dare you use logic & common sense with this |
LynneSin |
Mar-23-10 11:30 AM |
#116 |
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The real business of our government doesn't seem to happen |
EFerrari |
Mar-22-10 01:55 PM |
#3 |
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Theater... |
blindpig |
Mar-22-10 01:58 PM |
#5 |
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remember, Obama wasn't dealing with republicans...it was democrats threatening |
spanone |
Mar-22-10 01:58 PM |
#6 |
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But there were Dems 'threatening' from the other side too |
Cal Carpenter |
Mar-22-10 02:03 PM |
#8 |
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More like Big Pharma and the insurance industry. |
EFerrari |
Mar-22-10 02:18 PM |
#13 |
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but it got more Democratic votes than single payer would have |
Motown_Johnny |
Mar-22-10 02:01 PM |
#7 |
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Well, how about the public option, if not single payer? |
Cal Carpenter |
Mar-22-10 02:17 PM |
#12 |
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Your argument has a flaw |
Chulanowa |
Mar-23-10 12:01 AM |
#65 |
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that tired meme again. perfect and flawless, my ass. |
tomp |
Mar-23-10 12:13 AM |
#67 |
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Deleted message |
Name removed |
Mar-23-10 12:47 AM |
#70 |
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Wow, it must be awesome to be always so right as to not require actual proof of your claims... |
liberation |
Mar-23-10 10:31 AM |
#101 |
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Don't you |
Ticonderoga |
Mar-23-10 11:28 AM |
#115 |
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Uhm... |
kenfrequed |
Mar-23-10 11:10 AM |
#111 |
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66 |
mistajefferson |
Mar-23-10 01:13 PM |
#127 |
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"I have rejected a whole bunch of provisions that the left wanted..." |
Marr |
Mar-22-10 02:07 PM |
#9 |
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Big PHarma is Elated! Obama gave them what they wanted! |
amborin |
Mar-22-10 02:32 PM |
#22 |
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Big Pharma is "elated"? I think you forgot the 'F' |
jgraz |
Mar-22-10 03:43 PM |
#29 |
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LOLOLOLOL |
leftstreet |
Mar-22-10 03:45 PM |
#30 |
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Mee too. |
Enthusiast |
Mar-23-10 04:05 AM |
#81 |
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And YOU forgot the extra "l" n/t |
eridani |
Mar-22-10 10:37 PM |
#50 |
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Bingo. |
avaistheone1 |
Mar-23-10 10:05 AM |
#98 |
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Exactly... |
liberation |
Mar-23-10 10:34 AM |
#102 |
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Yeah, but they would have accused us of socialism |
kenny blankenship |
Mar-22-10 02:16 PM |
#11 |
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Interesting that meme didn't work to keep Obama from getting elected |
leftstreet |
Mar-22-10 02:28 PM |
#17 |
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But it got a lot more Democratic votes than it would have. |
tranche |
Mar-22-10 02:29 PM |
#18 |
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QED. n/t |
Orsino |
Mar-22-10 03:49 PM |
#33 |
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Too bad the president wasn't willing to lead his party in the right direction. nt |
LWolf |
Mar-22-10 02:30 PM |
#19 |
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yep - his lack of leadership was utterly pathetic. |
kath |
Mar-22-10 06:59 PM |
#46 |
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except for the DLC "Democrats" we voted in |
upi402 |
Mar-22-10 02:31 PM |
#20 |
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unfortunately President Obama had to compromise with democrats. |
spanone |
Mar-22-10 02:31 PM |
#21 |
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but single payer would not have gotten the votes of the corporatist |
mdmc |
Mar-22-10 02:33 PM |
#23 |
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Bingo! |
tedzbear |
Mar-22-10 11:08 PM |
#55 |
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You weren't supposed to notice that. The theatrics are necessary to maintain the illusion of choice. |
Greyhound |
Mar-22-10 02:46 PM |
#25 |
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+1 n/t |
mikita |
Mar-23-10 07:32 AM |
#88 |
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67 |
mistajefferson |
Mar-23-10 01:14 PM |
#128 |
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That was always just an excuse. Which we didn't buy |
sabrina 1 |
Mar-22-10 02:52 PM |
#26 |
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That's because the Corporatist Party knew it could obtain two primary goals by |
Uncle Joe |
Mar-22-10 03:07 PM |
#27 |
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The Democrats are still playing 90s politics |
jgraz |
Mar-22-10 03:45 PM |
#31 |
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If you actually think the Democratic leadership or the President wanted single payer |
DefenseLawyer |
Mar-22-10 03:46 PM |
#32 |
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"Health insurance companies perform an important role." Prez. B. Obama. nt |
Captain Hilts |
Mar-23-10 05:09 AM |
#82 |
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Sing it loud and proud brother! |
Vinnie From Indy |
Mar-22-10 04:13 PM |
#35 |
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But far more Democratic votes. It was a close thing even as it was. |
Unvanguard |
Mar-22-10 04:42 PM |
#37 |
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And now we live underneath the fascist Individual Mandate as well. |
New Dawn |
Mar-22-10 05:15 PM |
#40 |
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You betcha. But how would single payer have bailed out the insurance industry? |
glitch |
Mar-22-10 05:16 PM |
#42 |
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The bipartisanship was WITHIN the party |
marshall |
Mar-22-10 05:19 PM |
#43 |
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ah. politics hides a world of sins. |
branders seine |
Mar-22-10 07:04 PM |
#47 |
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K&R |
dajoki |
Mar-22-10 07:24 PM |
#48 |
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Don't forget 'including republican ideas'. |
Edweird |
Mar-22-10 07:33 PM |
#49 |
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We may not get what we vote for, but if we vote a second time for the same people |
pundaint |
Mar-22-10 10:45 PM |
#51 |
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The compromises were never intended to garner Republican support |
ibegurpard |
Mar-22-10 10:52 PM |
#52 |
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Single payer wouldn't have passed...that's reality. n/t |
cynatnite |
Mar-22-10 10:54 PM |
#53 |
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Fuckin' A! |
Roland99 |
Mar-22-10 10:58 PM |
#54 |
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"Bipartisan" these days means negociating with Blue Dogs |
Canuckistanian |
Mar-22-10 11:14 PM |
#56 |
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*EXCELLENT* point. |
inna |
Mar-22-10 11:15 PM |
#57 |
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K & R That ! |
SlingBlade |
Mar-22-10 11:26 PM |
#58 |
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K&R |
Joey Kidd |
Mar-22-10 11:29 PM |
#59 |
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Self-delete |
newtothegame |
Mar-22-10 11:32 PM |
#60 |
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Bingo! |
colsohlibgal |
Mar-22-10 11:56 PM |
#63 |
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Begs the question - do the rest of the dems really want our vote? |
grahamhgreen |
Mar-22-10 11:57 PM |
#64 |
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K&R |
Individualist |
Mar-23-10 12:02 AM |
#66 |
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That really is the kicker, isn't it. |
gtar100 |
Mar-23-10 12:13 AM |
#68 |
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The Senate version would have never gotten the 60 votes needed with a PO, |
stopbush |
Mar-23-10 12:42 AM |
#69 |
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It's sad. |
NYC_SKP |
Mar-23-10 01:27 AM |
#72 |
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If the president and the democratic party had introduced the most |
newspeak |
Mar-23-10 12:30 PM |
#123 |
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Not only that but states also couldn't sue over the new bill |
PinkFloyd |
Mar-23-10 01:38 AM |
#73 |
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I agree with you, sir ... |
watajob |
Mar-23-10 02:17 AM |
#75 |
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that really slips by a lot of people |
Skittles |
Mar-23-10 03:10 AM |
#76 |
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this is it? |
RBitt |
Mar-23-10 06:21 AM |
#84 |
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True |
quaker bill |
Mar-23-10 06:30 AM |
#85 |
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To hell with the MINORITY party. |
penndragon69 |
Mar-23-10 07:23 AM |
#86 |
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good point |
Lerkfish |
Mar-23-10 07:31 AM |
#87 |
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Posts like this show a FUNDAMENTAL failure to understand the politics |
WeekendWarrior |
Mar-23-10 07:46 AM |
#89 |
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You've infered quite a lot about me from a statement of observation |
Cal Carpenter |
Mar-23-10 08:43 AM |
#94 |
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The quest for bipartisanship failed entirely |
Bluenorthwest |
Mar-23-10 08:16 AM |
#90 |
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the policy was fixed in February of 2009. |
branders seine |
Mar-23-10 08:44 AM |
#95 |
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Has the list of no voters been posted? nm |
rhett o rick |
Mar-23-10 08:50 AM |
#96 |
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Unfortunately, we had to compromise with members of our party |
wryter2000 |
Mar-23-10 10:03 AM |
#97 |
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So the question has to be asked: |
liberation |
Mar-23-10 10:39 AM |
#103 |
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None of this was ever about Republican votes, but getting enough Democratic votes |
elocs |
Mar-23-10 11:07 AM |
#108 |
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+1 |
Lex |
Mar-23-10 11:09 AM |
#110 |
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No actually it's glaringly obvious |
Cal Carpenter |
Mar-23-10 12:00 PM |
#119 |
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Yes, it is the best we could do. Just because you call it bullshit does not make it so. |
elocs |
Mar-23-10 01:14 PM |
#129 |
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Yeah and we fight year after year not to let |
Cal Carpenter |
Mar-23-10 03:47 PM |
#136 |
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yea too bad it got more democratic votes than single payer would've |
craigmatic |
Mar-23-10 11:08 AM |
#109 |
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Politics are not black and white |
Spike89 |
Mar-23-10 11:21 AM |
#114 |
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Good Cop/Bad Cop ring any bells? nt |
Romulox |
Mar-23-10 11:31 AM |
#117 |
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That was my 1st reaction too. My Pollyanna Take for today is the prolonged exposure of GOP insanity. |
Overseas |
Mar-23-10 12:01 PM |
#120 |
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And how would the Democratic votes have compared? |
Richardo |
Mar-23-10 12:11 PM |
#121 |
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Thanks for reminding us so sweetly and succinctly! |
swilton |
Mar-23-10 12:56 PM |
#124 |
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Yesterday's bill got exactly as many Republican votes as Single Payer would've |
mistajefferson |
Mar-23-10 01:11 PM |
#125 |
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They got Nelson and Lincoln, who are Republicans in all but name. |
Mass |
Mar-23-10 01:22 PM |
#130 |
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Single payer/universal/medicare for all just wouldn't have |
shraby |
Mar-23-10 01:27 PM |
#131 |
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Error: you can only recommend threads which were started in the past 24 hours |
TBF |
Mar-23-10 07:07 PM |
#137 |
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Heh |
Cal Carpenter |
Mar-23-10 08:07 PM |
#139 |
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ditto here |
maryf |
Mar-23-10 08:23 PM |
#140 |
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