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florida08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-19-10 12:32 PM
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129. That statement by Obama leaves me cold
Who does he think worked so hard for him to get elected? There are too many republican amendments in this bill. I heard Mike Moore say that these insurance corporates are really not mandated to insure pre-existing. They're only to be fined a Benjamin a day. If the government is going to help cover those who can't afford to get into the exchange what's to stop them from refusal? We're already covering the uninsured with higher premiums and I don't see that changing.

Had hoped the bill would get tweaked before passage but with all the arm bending that's going on that hope has left the station. Once the neocons are back it will be over. If the dems think it's been hard now just wait till next year. Medicare for all would be so much better. Thanks Tom for being straight forward with no agenda. As usual you are right although I don't see it as a win but a loss..the status quo remains. Medicare and medicaid will be next on the chopping block.
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  -"We WIN" On HC Reform! ihavenobias  Mar-18-10 01:43 PM   #0 
  - People will soon forget what you are now saying.  county worker   Mar-18-10 01:45 PM   #1 
  - Hopefully you are right, and all this misinformation and wrong minded positions  NJmaverick   Mar-18-10 01:50 PM   #4 
  - Deleted sub-thread  Name removed   Mar-18-10 02:17 PM   #19 
  - You call wanting single payer wrong minded? You call wanting PO wrong minded?  rhett o rick   Mar-18-10 04:47 PM   #54 
     - He thinks anything that helps humans is wrong minded. He only cares about corporations n/t  Raineyb   Mar-19-10 11:41 AM   #121 
        - Some people are of the opinion that the only requirement for something to be correct...  liberation   Mar-19-10 12:44 PM   #131 
  - A Standing Exhibit of the Fraud, Colllusion, Bribery and Extortion ...  theFrankFactor   Mar-18-10 03:16 PM   #43 
  - Until they get arround to noticing that nothing whatsoever has changed  eridani   Mar-18-10 06:33 PM   #61 
  - when I'm forced to buy a shitty product that gives me zip in return  northernlights   Mar-20-10 02:12 AM   #146 
  - This is a bad as the nonsensical dated poll you posted  NJmaverick   Mar-18-10 01:50 PM   #2 
  - 2 Things  ihavenobias   Mar-18-10 02:07 PM   #15 
  - No, having your opponent grow tired of your misguided and wrong minded rebuttals is  NJmaverick   Mar-18-10 02:33 PM   #25 
     - I'd like to know that also. Do you support Single Payer or  sabrina 1   Mar-18-10 08:27 PM   #77 
        - Unless that's a nickname for the "O" I am gonna say no on both counts.  Mithreal   Mar-19-10 12:53 AM   #95 
           - I call that "trickle down" politics....  liberation   Mar-19-10 12:49 PM   #133 
  - Just one question. Do you or dont you support single payer. nm  rhett o rick   Mar-18-10 04:50 PM   #55 
  - Deleted sub-thread  Name removed   Mar-18-10 07:04 PM   #70 
  - Crickets. n/t  ihavenobias   Mar-20-10 02:17 PM   #147 
  - Actually, there are insurance industry reps on the TV supporting the mandate  Capitalocracy   Mar-18-10 05:26 PM   #57 
  - The 2nd sentence is not true  rpannier   Mar-18-10 11:25 PM   #90 
     - Insurance execs pleasure themselves gambling with patient lives.  Mithreal   Mar-19-10 01:01 AM   #97 
     - Psychopaths don't consider themselves evil either  nightgaunt   Mar-19-10 12:42 PM   #130 
     - Will be covered...  Greyhound   Mar-19-10 04:26 AM   #111 
     - And what do these people do............  SergeStorms   Mar-19-10 11:21 AM   #118 
  - K & R thank you Tom when you get a chance take a look at this post also  democracy1st   Mar-18-10 01:50 PM   #3 
  - Watch for Dems to pat themselves on the backs for  johnlal   Mar-18-10 01:53 PM   #5 
  - The Progressive Caucus may pat themselves on their backs, but the Blue Dogs and republicans  pampango   Mar-18-10 01:59 PM   #10 
  - Exactly the opposite  kenfrequed   Mar-19-10 11:48 AM   #122 
     - That's my fear. n/t  ihavenobias   Mar-19-10 11:44 PM   #143 
  - Very good point. nt  Lorien   Mar-18-10 01:59 PM   #11 
  - The whole process has been a dog and pony show.  Individualist   Mar-18-10 04:35 PM   #53 
  - Actually, they're very serious about reform . . . but corporations are the beneficiaries  The Hope Mobile   Mar-18-10 07:51 PM   #74 
  - Well, let's be honest here - the whole thing about "reform" is that it is just  truedelphi   Mar-19-10 02:50 AM   #110 
  - K & R  Nikki Stone1   Mar-18-10 01:55 PM   #6 
  - Very good info! Thanks for posting! K&R  20score   Mar-18-10 01:56 PM   #7 
  - It is not about winning or losing.  RandomThoughts   Mar-18-10 01:56 PM   #8 
  - K & R for the painful truth  Lorien   Mar-18-10 01:58 PM   #9 
  - There was a thread mocking the win of Health Care reform  quinnox   Mar-18-10 02:00 PM   #12 
  - I guess those people with pre-existing conditions who the insurers can't drop  TZ   Mar-18-10 02:01 PM   #13 
  - By all those people I guess you mean me and my GF (we have pre-existing conditions).  ihavenobias   Mar-18-10 02:09 PM   #17 
  - My husband and I also. But we can't afford the premiums  laughingliberal   Mar-18-10 03:03 PM   #37 
  - We had momentum to see every person's life was treated this way  Mithreal   Mar-18-10 02:25 PM   #20 
  - Yes, they are losers. The useless murdering intermediaries will price them out of the market  eridani   Mar-18-10 06:37 PM   #62 
  - except for the folks with pre-existing conditions who DIE before it kicks in  havocmom   Mar-18-10 08:38 PM   #78 
     - Bingo...and the fact the pool is priced so high as to drown in.  ScreamingMeemie   Mar-19-10 01:33 AM   #105 
  - Kicked and recommended.  Uncle Joe   Mar-18-10 02:05 PM   #14 
  - The alternative to this bill is nothing but the vain hope that a better bill will come.  BurtWorm   Mar-18-10 02:09 PM   #16 
  - I addressed this in detail yesterday.  ihavenobias   Mar-18-10 02:11 PM   #18 
  - I see no reason why I should believe your vision of the future over anyone else's.  BurtWorm   Mar-18-10 02:31 PM   #24 
     - Yes, let's go back to the 90's.  ihavenobias   Mar-18-10 02:37 PM   #28 
     - Apples and oranges.  BurtWorm   Mar-18-10 03:04 PM   #38 
        - A bunch of rotten apples and oranges.  ihavenobias   Mar-18-10 03:10 PM   #40 
        - It's too late to 'start with single payer.'  BurtWorm   Mar-18-10 03:14 PM   #42 
           - Right, but I'm talking about motives and or horrible politics.  ihavenobias   Mar-18-10 03:16 PM   #44 
              - What will the establishment love that is a real benefit to the people?  BurtWorm   Mar-18-10 03:18 PM   #45 
                 - Motives.  ihavenobias   Mar-18-10 04:34 PM   #52 
        - I don't think the bill passing or not passing  obxhead   Mar-19-10 12:59 AM   #96 
           - If they 'win' this, it might give them some confidence and appetite to win some more.  BurtWorm   Mar-19-10 09:41 AM   #112 
     - I think you are wrong. I think that if this bill passes without  sabrina 1   Mar-19-10 01:44 AM   #109 
     - The Republicans are clearly not finished.  BurtWorm   Mar-19-10 10:37 AM   #113 
        - Did the Republicans win in 2006 or 2008, after the base  sabrina 1   Mar-19-10 03:10 PM   #141 
           - I don't think the base left the Republicans. They just never do.  BurtWorm   Mar-19-10 04:20 PM   #142 
     - The price of losing?  kenfrequed   Mar-19-10 11:52 AM   #123 
        - Is Kucinich a DLC/Blue Dog?  BurtWorm   Mar-19-10 12:05 PM   #125 
           - Well which is it?  kenfrequed   Mar-19-10 12:10 PM   #128 
              - The waters are muddy. That is my point.  BurtWorm   Mar-19-10 12:45 PM   #132 
                 - Nuts.  kenfrequed   Mar-19-10 01:23 PM   #139 
                    - Can you hold more than one thought in your head? Maybe not.  BurtWorm   Mar-19-10 01:42 PM   #140 
  - Bogus - alternative is nothing claims.  Mithreal   Mar-18-10 02:28 PM   #22 
  - Help me, then: What is the something that is the alternative?  BurtWorm   Mar-18-10 02:38 PM   # 
  - It's how you framed your argument that led to the weak positioning.  Mithreal   Mar-18-10 03:05 PM   #39 
     - It better not be over.  BurtWorm   Mar-18-10 03:20 PM   #46 
        - indeed  Mithreal   Mar-18-10 03:38 PM   #48 
  - X  BurtWorm   Mar-18-10 02:38 PM   #29 
  - It is passing it that will defeat us in November n/t  eridani   Mar-18-10 06:39 PM   #63 
  - all part of the plan. Both sides can complain to voters "we can't, we aren't in power"  havocmom   Mar-18-10 08:42 PM   #80 
  - Can you explain the logic of that?  BurtWorm   Mar-18-10 09:57 PM   #86 
     - It is based on Obama's very effective 2008 campaign in which he ran on opposing mandates  eridani   Mar-20-10 12:55 AM   #145 
  - The logical dissonance is strong with this one...  liberation   Mar-19-10 12:50 PM   #134 
     - I don't follow you.  BurtWorm   Mar-19-10 12:58 PM   #136 
  - K&R excellent OP  amborin   Mar-18-10 02:27 PM   #21 
  - ihavenobias tells it like it is  Wetzelbill   Mar-18-10 02:29 PM   #23 
  - K&R even though your name bugs me ;)  Political Heretic   Mar-18-10 02:34 PM   #26 
  - Apparently you never read my profile!  ihavenobias   Mar-18-10 02:38 PM   #30 
     - I am the master of "see what you expect to see"....! -  tbyg52   Mar-18-10 06:43 PM   #66 
     - Haha I hadn't! :)  Political Heretic   Mar-18-10 09:51 PM   #84 
  - Thanks.  RaleighNCDUer   Mar-18-10 02:36 PM   #27 
  - I know that both parties have corporate influence, and..  mvd   Mar-18-10 02:42 PM   #31 
  - Which is why I understand Kucinich changing his vote -  RaleighNCDUer   Mar-18-10 03:03 PM   #36 
  - Same here  laughingliberal   Mar-18-10 11:47 PM   #93 
     - You weren't supposed to be watching. He was playing to his audience.  Mithreal   Mar-19-10 01:30 AM   #102 
        - Evan Bayh deserves considerable blame  kenfrequed   Mar-19-10 12:08 PM   #127 
           - Plouffe: Obama's Veep Pick 'Coin Toss' Between Biden And Bayh  Mithreal   Mar-19-10 12:56 PM   #135 
              - Even scarier.  kenfrequed   Mar-19-10 01:16 PM   #138 
  - Agreed, I believe most of us knew our vote was being cast for a better SCOTUS if nothing else.  Mithreal   Mar-19-10 01:09 AM   #99 
  - +1  pleah   Mar-18-10 02:48 PM   #32 
  - +1  Individualist   Mar-18-10 06:15 PM   #60 
  - K&R  pleah   Mar-18-10 02:48 PM   #33 
  - "I have rejected a whole bunch of provisions that the left wanted" - Barack Obama  FiveGoodMen   Mar-18-10 02:50 PM   #34 
  - K&R. The pharmaceutical companies win as well.  Individualist   Mar-18-10 03:02 PM   #35 
  - K & R nt  Raine   Mar-18-10 03:12 PM   #41 
  - Everyone knows who wins.  pecwae   Mar-18-10 03:21 PM   #47 
  - K&R. Who "wins?" With what's on the table, I know it's not gonna be me...  Rhiannon12866   Mar-18-10 03:57 PM   #49 
  - K&R  Eyerish   Mar-18-10 04:03 PM   #50 
  - K&R  leftstreet   Mar-18-10 04:03 PM   #51 
  - When I can get to see a doctor  DearAbby   Mar-18-10 04:51 PM   #56 
  - At the risk of sounding like a broken record  ihavenobias   Mar-18-10 05:40 PM   #58 
  - Good Luck.  bvar22   Mar-18-10 06:05 PM   #59 
     - And good night.  truedelphi   Mar-18-10 06:40 PM   #65 
  - Interesting how if this bill is such a "win" for the health insurance companies, they are still  4lbs   Mar-18-10 06:39 PM   #64 
  - Are they? I sure haven't seen any "Dick and Jane" ads (or whatever the name of that couple was)  tbyg52   Mar-18-10 06:47 PM   #67 
  - They are using the U.S. Chamber of Commerce so their names aren't attached.  4lbs   Mar-18-10 06:52 PM   #69 
  - That's called lobbying. They can always argue for a little more.  Marr   Mar-19-10 01:33 AM   #104 
     - As I said, that's because they hide behind other groups that they fund extremely well.  4lbs   Mar-19-10 12:07 PM   #126 
  - They've been on board the whole time  mwrguy   Mar-18-10 07:58 PM   #75 
  - They've fought it to win numerous concessions.  ihavenobias   Mar-18-10 06:48 PM   #68 
  - Yeah, it's a lose-lose for the regular people. nt  tbyg52   Mar-18-10 07:18 PM   #72 
  - If you're the most despised entity, how do you get what you want?  Uncle Joe   Mar-18-10 07:15 PM   #71 
     - Bingo. nt  tbyg52   Mar-18-10 07:45 PM   #73 
  - Too late to rec??? Where's this thread been???? kick . . .  defendandprotect   Mar-18-10 08:23 PM   #76 
  - a big K&R here....too tired and mostly too sickened to write anything else  bread_and_roses   Mar-18-10 08:42 PM   #79 
  - I'm not surprised by  Cha   Mar-18-10 08:58 PM   #81 
  - I'm not pushing anything and I very sincerely hope I'm wrong about this bill.  ihavenobias   Mar-18-10 09:01 PM   #82 
  - K & R Fuck the Corporatist !  SlingBlade   Mar-18-10 09:02 PM   #83 
  - Bullshit...  MellowDem   Mar-18-10 09:54 PM   #85 
  - Sorry, but you're pretty much wrong  ProudDad   Mar-18-10 10:25 PM   #88 
  - According to you...  MellowDem   Mar-18-10 10:53 PM   #89 
     - Why call it a conspiracy, when con job will do?  Mithreal   Mar-18-10 11:47 PM   #92 
     - That's EXACTLY what happened!  Capitalocracy   Mar-19-10 01:09 AM   #98 
     - But insurance companies know...  MellowDem   Mar-19-10 10:51 AM   #114 
        - The "health" insurance corporations also know death by a thousand cuts.  Uncle Joe   Mar-19-10 11:36 AM   #119 
     - I believe the saying goes  obxhead   Mar-19-10 01:12 AM   #100 
  - Ridiculously wrong. When you squeezed all the juice out of the orange, whatya gonna do?  Mithreal   Mar-18-10 11:42 PM   #91 
  - If the insurance companies...  MellowDem   Mar-19-10 10:57 AM   #115 
     - We just backstopped the profits.  Mithreal   Mar-19-10 01:02 PM   #137 
  - A mandate that everyone buy their products and government subsidies are a hell of a lot better than  Marr   Mar-19-10 01:39 AM   #107 
     - What goverment subsidies?  MellowDem   Mar-19-10 11:04 AM   #116 
  - You do realize that...  ProudDad   Mar-18-10 10:21 PM   #87 
  - +1  area51   Mar-19-10 11:58 AM   #124 
  - Lots of good points. n/t  ihavenobias   Mar-22-10 01:24 AM   #148 
  - Definition of Fascism  Citizen Worker   Mar-18-10 11:56 PM   #94 
  - Gotta love private taxes.  Mithreal   Mar-19-10 01:32 AM   #103 
  - Yep. If GW Bush had done this, the very people cheering now would've gone apeshit.  Marr   Mar-19-10 01:42 AM   #108 
  - Hear, hear!  Individualist   Mar-19-10 11:40 AM   #120 
  - well, the White House has been firmly on their side  Skittles   Mar-19-10 01:19 AM   #101 
  - Put on a good show though. Running the clock out.  Mithreal   Mar-19-10 01:35 AM   #106 
  - Americans  ProSense   Mar-19-10 11:21 AM   #117 
  - That statement by Obama leaves me cold  florida08   Mar-19-10 12:32 PM   #129 
  - so true. Insurance companies will make a killing off of this  WillYourVoteBCounted   Mar-19-10 11:52 PM   #144 

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