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Reply #54: Your pity is irrelevant. This it is about what our society stands for. [View All]

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Caliman73 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #44
54. Your pity is irrelevant. This it is about what our society stands for.
It is about what type of society we are or want to become. I believe in choice and consequences too, but this is about more than the fantasy that we can have all the freedom to live our lives just how we want to. We have to ask ourselves: Are we a society that believes in individualism above all? Or.. Are we a society that tries to balance individual rights with a minimum standard of living for all of our citizens?

I am not sure how old you are or whether that really even matters, but you need to understand that there is no such thing as a "free society". Once you get more than one or two people living in a group, you have to balance your choices and freedoms with the sustainability of the system. You have more or less freedom depending on the system, but there is no truly "free society" where people choose to do what they want and then live with their decision and the decisions of others. That is called chaos.

In a "free society" where everyone has the right to better be prepared to kill or be killed to ensure that you get to do whatever you want. The best example of a society guided by those principles is currently Somalia. There is no government there to prevent people from living how they want to live. There is also no government to protect anyone from anyone else. For another example, look at the United States prior the "Progressive Era", Social Security, and government regulation to understand what free choice without a social safety net resulted in.
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  -Lets dump Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid. Cyrano  Mar-11-10 12:48 PM   #0 
  - With regard to your last statement...  NV Whino   Mar-11-10 12:51 PM   #1 
  - "He's wanted in five of the seven seas, and he's NOT wanted in the other two!"  HopeHoops   Mar-11-10 12:54 PM   #4 
  - Maybe because the DLC agrees with them?  Sebastian Doyle   Mar-11-10 12:53 PM   #2 
  - Yeah, the crash made the idea a little inconvenient but I know they haven't given up on it  laughingliberal   Mar-11-10 12:57 PM   #9 
  - Hear, hear!  Individualist   Mar-11-10 02:30 PM   #36 
  - Exactly (nt)  dflprincess   Mar-11-10 10:58 PM   #68 
  - If I could opt out, I would.  ixion   Mar-11-10 12:53 PM   #3 
  - Let's talk about where people would be now if they had opted out 5 years ago. nt  laughingliberal   Mar-11-10 12:58 PM   #11 
  - Same here  kctim   Mar-11-10 01:06 PM   #15 
  - Read my post #16 after yours.  Cleita   Mar-11-10 01:15 PM   #18 
     - It's not foolish to not want to have to fight for something you've already earned  ixion   Mar-11-10 01:28 PM   #23 
        - You have a right to choose, but young people don't understand that they  Cleita   Mar-11-10 02:04 PM   #30 
        - well, I don't have a right to choose, really  ixion   Mar-11-10 02:34 PM   #38 
           - Oh I see you got yours, so the rest of society is of no concern to you?  Cleita   Mar-11-10 03:10 PM   #48 
              - No, you assumption is not correct...and our society is in no way, shape or form  ixion   Mar-11-10 03:24 PM   #55 
        - it doesn't work without everyone in the system  Enrique   Mar-12-10 12:46 PM   #78 
           - It doesn't work  ixion   Mar-12-10 01:57 PM   #80 
  - Just for an example.  Cleita   Mar-11-10 01:12 PM   #16 
  - See my post #23  ixion   Mar-11-10 01:29 PM   #24 
  - Choice  Caliman73   Mar-11-10 02:44 PM   #40 
  - There is no flaw  ixion   Mar-11-10 02:53 PM   #44 
     - Your pity is irrelevant. This it is about what our society stands for.  Caliman73   Mar-11-10 03:23 PM   #54 
        - My pity may be, but my CASH is not...  ixion   Mar-11-10 03:26 PM   #56 
  - you're also saying 'maybe it should be scrapped'  Enrique   Mar-12-10 02:16 PM   #81 
  - Yep, experience is the best teacher  kctim   Mar-11-10 02:02 PM   #29 
     - That's because the right wing keeps shooting holes in them making them  Cleita   Mar-11-10 02:11 PM   #32 
     - No, it is because  kctim   Mar-11-10 03:03 PM   #47 
        - If they paid into it then they have a right to it.  Cleita   Mar-11-10 03:14 PM   #50 
           - You are correct  kctim   Mar-11-10 03:19 PM   #52 
     - they weren't created as a "for those who need them most", they were created as  Hannah Bell   Mar-11-10 02:19 PM   #33 
        - They were created as a safety net  kctim   Mar-11-10 03:11 PM   #49 
           - you're completely misinformed. *everyone* who worked & paid in qualifies for social security &  Hannah Bell   Mar-11-10 04:32 PM   #62 
  - Really?  Lugnut   Mar-11-10 02:33 PM   #37 
  - Deal with it  ixion   Mar-11-10 02:38 PM   #39 
  - Where are you hearing about this "wrestling"?  Caliman73   Mar-11-10 02:49 PM   #41 
  - "wrestling" describes my experience with every government functionary I've ever had to deal with  ixion   Mar-11-10 02:55 PM   #45 
     - Congratulations ...  RoyGBiv   Mar-11-10 03:19 PM   #53 
        - I'm simply stating my perception based on my experience... anything less  ixion   Mar-11-10 03:31 PM   #57 
        - I like bureaucrats a hell of a lot more than greedy corportists  Kalyke   Mar-12-10 12:27 PM   #77 
           - heh... you think bureaucrats are any better?  ixion   Mar-12-10 01:56 PM   #79 
        - +1000  Cleita   Mar-11-10 03:32 PM   #58 
  - I wrestled with nobody.  Lugnut   Mar-11-10 04:36 PM   #63 
     - Thanks...and likewise  ixion   Mar-11-10 05:08 PM   #64 
  - Live off the money  kctim   Mar-11-10 03:14 PM   #51 
  - "Fight some stupid bureaucrat"? What have you been drinking? The SS just sends me a check...  Hekate   Mar-11-10 03:37 PM   #60 
  - Again, I'm simply advocating the Right to Choose  ixion   Mar-11-10 04:02 PM   #61 
  - Maybe the real story is that you would lose your job if HCR-PO passes.  Festivito   Mar-11-10 10:13 PM   #65 
     - Wow... that's a whole heap of speculation and innuendo you just tossed out...  ixion   Mar-12-10 04:54 AM   #70 
        - Just out of curiosity, what would you do if you could collect all of your  Cyrano   Mar-12-10 06:25 AM   #71 
           - not necessarily...  ixion   Mar-12-10 08:16 AM   #73 
  - I think even the dumbest Freeper knows that without those programs for  Cleita   Mar-11-10 12:55 PM   #5 
  - No, they have no intention of supporting their old and disabled parents and relatives.  SharonAnn   Mar-11-10 01:17 PM   #19 
     - Then they are more than stupid. They are as dumb as the worms in  Cleita   Mar-11-10 01:18 PM   #21 
  - Why not? Through the HCR process, everyone agrees private industry creates the best solution  Oregone   Mar-11-10 12:55 PM   #6 
  - First things first. The Senate health insurance must be passed than "entitlements" can be cut.  Better Believe It   Mar-11-10 12:56 PM   #7 
  - And the Senate health insurance will streamline the privatization of Medicare  laughingliberal   Mar-11-10 01:01 PM   #13 
  - I wouldn't be able to survive  Roon   Mar-11-10 12:56 PM   #8 
  - Here's my comeback to any 'thug I hear supporting that idea  Xithras   Mar-11-10 12:57 PM   #10 
  - They wanna kill the poor  sakabatou   Mar-11-10 01:00 PM   #12 
  - Back in the day, that was just a song.  Spike from MN   Mar-11-10 01:36 PM   #26 
  - they keep repeating that 58% of Americans don't want HCR bill...  rfranklin   Mar-11-10 01:02 PM   #14 
  - If you don't have SS, Medicare and Medicaid  Burma Jones   Mar-11-10 01:15 PM   #17 
  - Amen and you can start with me.  Cleita   Mar-11-10 01:17 PM   #20 
  - Some #@%!@% idiot was just on CNN talking about a plan to end  Lars39   Mar-11-10 01:23 PM   #22 
  - Not surprising. Republicans couldn't give a damn if we have  Cyrano   Mar-11-10 01:46 PM   #27 
     - psychopaths have no empathy  cutlassmama   Mar-11-10 02:52 PM   #42 
  - But they don't mind recklessly spending billions upon billions  Urban Prairie   Mar-11-10 01:35 PM   #25 
  - and don't forget they also want to privatize schools and end the estate tax  DrDan   Mar-11-10 02:00 PM   #28 
  - plus the military, the national parks, & the space program --  Hannah Bell   Mar-11-10 02:21 PM   #34 
     - the ports . . . aaaaargh - it makes my head hurt  DrDan   Mar-11-10 02:29 PM   #35 
  - Why?  SoCalDem   Mar-11-10 02:05 PM   #31 
  - You forgot about blaming Barney Frank! Didn't you know that it was he that  CTyankee   Mar-11-10 03:00 PM   #46 
  - There's still power in that third rail of politics.  damntexdem   Mar-11-10 02:53 PM   #43 
  - End SS, Medicare, Medicaid, Food Assistance, get rid of all the pensions...  Taverner   Mar-11-10 03:33 PM   #59 
  - But NO liberal pundit will EVER fight back by  troubledamerican   Mar-11-10 10:15 PM   #66 
  - Excuse me but, Keith Olbermann did a whole segment of one of his  Cleita   Mar-11-10 10:56 PM   #67 
     - No: You misread my comment.  troubledamerican   Mar-11-10 11:30 PM   #69 
  - Apparently, Republicans want to bring back poor farms.  Vinca   Mar-12-10 07:17 AM   #72 
  - You know, I don't mind hearing "Republicans" say those things.  bvar22   Mar-12-10 12:06 PM   #74 
  - They've said that out loud for decades  bananas   Mar-12-10 12:10 PM   #75 
  - They only say it once in a while...  butterfly77   Mar-12-10 12:26 PM   #76 

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