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Reply #18: This is the important missing piece [View All]

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zipplewrath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-25-10 07:36 AM
Response to Reply #8
18. This is the important missing piece
It is very easy to draw similarities between the anti-war movement of the late 60's and early '70s, and this current bunch. I actually think it is wrong to mix the anti-war movement with the civil rights movement. Civil rights can date its way back into the '50s at the very least. The vast majority of it very peaceful. But the anti-war effort really brought to the fore folks like Abbey Hoffman. Riots and disruption were their stock and trade. But you rightly point out that the important distinction between those folks and these current tea bagger nuts, is the propensity and actual violence. We could discuss why, but in a VERY short time these nuts have done ALOT of killing.

And I would digress for a moment to complain about the mixing of several cultural phenomenons of the late '50s, the '60s, and the early '70s. There were AT LEAST 4 very separate "movements" at the time and although they were all liberal/progressive, they were distinct and independent.

1. Civil rights. Started before Martin Luther King got involved. Some would trace it back at least to Roosevelt. Predominately peaceful. A VERY mainstream movement, in the early days consisting often of area business men. By the time of the "Freedom rides", it was hugely mainstream.

2. Hippie/Flower Power. There are actually several subgroups of this movement. It was the free love crowd, and ultimately became the drug crowd. It was a counter-culture revolution. It was anything but mainstream. It was relatively small, and the vast majority were very young. Woodstock was it's crowning achievement, Altamont was its down fall.

3. Anti-war. Really did not get going at all until the mid '60s and really only became "main stream" leading into '67-'68. The degree to which it represented any majority is dubious. It became mainstream for 2 reasons, alot of kids didn't wat to get drafted, and alot of parents didn't want their kids going off to war. This is where Abbey Hoffman and alot of other folks got started. It was actually a very short period of time, basically over by 1972.

4. Radical Revolutionaries. This was very fringe, never had any political clout, and unfortunately was a serious blow to its connection to liberalism. It was the Weather Underground, the SLA, the Blank Panthers, and to some extent the whole Malcom X, Louis Farrakhan crowd, (although they'd probably complain about being mixed in here. I'm trying to draw broad similarities).

I will acknowledge that there were overlaps in all of these "movements" but mostly their common thread was that almost any "movement" will attract the dispossed, fringe, and just plain pissed off or lonely. And since they were all basically "liberal" you were going to see at least "sympathies" across the board. But the vague similarities the original post draws is mostly between #4 and the tea baggers, with a tad of #2. By any allusion to #1 or #3, it implies a much more "mainstream" condition of the tea baggers than can be defended.
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  -"Todays New Right looks a lot like the New Left of the 60s" - your take? WilliamPitt  Feb-25-10 06:22 AM   #0 
  - The ONLY thing I see in common is some degree of anger at the establishment  depakid   Feb-25-10 06:25 AM   #1 
  - The tea party has a demographic problem.  Bosso 63   Feb-25-10 07:21 AM   #16 
  - The whole comparison is insulting.  mmonk   Feb-25-10 06:30 AM   #2 
  - I agree-- it's insulting  Art_from_Ark   Feb-25-10 06:35 AM   #5 
  - We were the ones that brought forth the advancement  mmonk   Feb-25-10 06:44 AM   #7 
  - Sullen, essentially hopeless anger of the Teabaggers  Jackpine Radical   Feb-25-10 07:27 PM   #79 
  - Exactly. They're murdering pigs.  Zoeisright   Feb-25-10 06:58 AM   #10 
  - You are likely right.  wolfgangmo   Feb-26-10 12:37 PM   #102 
     - We SDS organizers did exactly that.  Hardrada   Feb-26-10 12:43 PM   #103 
  - agreed n/t  newfie11   Feb-25-10 08:10 AM   #23 
  - The article was making a sociological comparison, not an ideological one.  Odin2005   Feb-25-10 08:17 AM   #28 
  - Nevertheless, it still doesn't work.  Jackpine Radical   Feb-25-10 07:29 PM   #80 
  - +1  Johonny   Feb-25-10 08:55 AM   #48 
  - +1000  Cetacea   Feb-25-10 08:56 AM   #49 
  - I think it's something we should learn from  XemaSab   Feb-26-10 01:17 PM   #109 
  - Good. Maybe they'll destroy the right's cohesiveness and derail its priorities  asthmaticeog   Feb-25-10 06:31 AM   #3 
  - Which priority did the sixties left derail?  Toots   Feb-25-10 07:58 AM   #22 
     - How about the monolithic Democratic Party, that was in charge 80% of the time from 1932  RaleighNCDUer   Feb-25-10 09:11 AM   #53 
        - Eh? LBJ admitted that the Civil Rights Act screwed that pooch.  Warren Stupidity   Feb-25-10 01:56 PM   #70 
        - I totally agree with your point about the fascist structure  XemaSab   Feb-26-10 01:30 PM   #111 
  - The only reason the so-called Tea Party has any credibility at all  ixion   Feb-25-10 06:33 AM   #4 
  - +1, ixion.  Enthusiast   Feb-25-10 07:07 AM   #13 
  - +infinity  Warren Stupidity   Feb-25-10 07:35 AM   #17 
  - + infinity +1  Richard Steele   Feb-25-10 08:15 AM   #26 
  - +1. Everyone can just read ixion's msg above and leave this thread. Nail in coffin. n/t  FormerDittoHead   Feb-25-10 08:19 AM   #29 
  - we on the Left know all too well what ignoring a group can do to a movement  fascisthunter   Feb-25-10 08:26 AM   #35 
  - !!!  SammyWinstonJack   Feb-25-10 08:58 AM   #50 
  - I'd go so far as to say the "tea party" is a blank-canvass/bogeyman  Romulox   Feb-25-10 09:31 AM   #56 
  - I believe the political term is "neoliberals". I think we ought start............  pattmarty   Feb-25-10 02:12 PM   #74 
  - +1 for popinjay  arcadian   Feb-25-10 09:26 PM   #88 
  - lol  ixion   Feb-26-10 05:42 AM   #91 
  - Thank you. eom  Hello_Kitty   Feb-26-10 01:16 PM   #108 
  - I wrote something similar a month or so ago about the left/right similarity  Warpy   Feb-25-10 06:36 AM   #6 
  - Given that most of these teabaggers seem to be Boomers I think it's an interesting mirror image.  Odin2005   Feb-25-10 08:20 AM   #30 
  - Boomers haven't gone into retirement in significant numbers yet  Warpy   Feb-25-10 08:25 AM   #33 
     - You mean what is often called the Silent Generation?  Odin2005   Feb-25-10 08:31 AM   #38 
     - Repeating a lie doesn't make it come true  Warpy   Feb-25-10 08:34 AM   #41 
        - Maybe I'm misremembering things, I swear I saw a lot of people in their 50s and 60s...  Odin2005   Feb-25-10 08:42 AM   #43 
           - They all looked mid 60s to mid 70s to me.  Warpy   Feb-25-10 09:04 AM   #51 
           - Some boomers were like Ted Nugent or Jane Fonda  Urban Prairie   Feb-25-10 11:09 AM   #63 
              - I don't know if it's fair to compare Nugent or Fonda? A more apt person would...........  pattmarty   Feb-25-10 02:34 PM   #76 
              - Ummm....Jane Fonda is not a conservative  RFKHumphreyObama   Feb-25-10 09:45 PM   #89 
              - Jane Fonda was born in 1938, hence, not a Boomer. eom  Hello_Kitty   Feb-26-10 01:58 PM   #113 
     - Generation Suck. LOL!  catbyte   Feb-25-10 10:47 AM   #59 
     - I am a War Child. Born just between the Organization Men  Hardrada   Feb-26-10 12:56 PM   #105 
  - IMO, by the mid-70s, and  Urban Prairie   Feb-25-10 08:34 AM   #40 
     - Most Boomers didn't do nearly as well economically as the characters in  raccoon   Feb-25-10 09:07 AM   #52 
     - No kidding, they were all rich and skinny  Warpy   Feb-25-10 01:59 PM   #71 
     - I hated "30something"also, Same people.  Hardrada   Feb-26-10 12:48 PM   #104 
     - A lot of us hit the job market just as wages stopped keeping up with CoL.  EFerrari   Feb-25-10 08:42 PM   #85 
     - I was in Boston  Warpy   Feb-25-10 09:52 AM   #58 
  - The difference is, many on the Right are heavily armed, and have already assassinated people  leveymg   Feb-25-10 06:46 AM   #8 
  - This is the important missing piece  zipplewrath   Feb-25-10 07:36 AM   #18 
  - Blaming the victim for not leaving  harkadog   Feb-25-10 09:19 PM   #87 
  - I didn't say it was "his fault". You did. And, I'm not apologizing for the Weathermen bombings.  leveymg   Feb-26-10 07:16 AM   #93 
     - This is the link to the SF bombing  harkadog   Feb-26-10 12:27 PM   #97 
        - That article is dated March 12, 2009. Anything since then?  leveymg   Feb-26-10 02:26 PM   #114 
           - I have nothing more recent  harkadog   Feb-26-10 02:35 PM   #116 
  - I don't think Robert Fassnacht "refused to vacate."  Jackpine Radical   Feb-26-10 12:37 PM   #101 
     - There were many previous bomb threats.  leveymg   Feb-26-10 02:28 PM   #115 
  - 180 degrees  timtom   Feb-25-10 06:54 AM   #9 
  - The 60s was different in that the masses of people involved.  OHdem10   Feb-25-10 07:01 AM   #11 
  - Insulting. nt  Enthusiast   Feb-25-10 07:02 AM   #12 
  - Looks like they skipped Woodstock and went straight for Altamont  Champion Jack   Feb-25-10 07:07 AM   #14 
  - Good one!  Cetacea   Feb-25-10 08:53 AM   #45 
     - dupe  Cetacea   Feb-25-10 08:55 AM   #47 
  - ya right.....  madrchsod   Feb-25-10 07:18 AM   #15 
  - Analogy Fail  Warren Stupidity   Feb-25-10 07:36 AM   #19 
  - New Left didn't have corporate funding. /nt  philly_bob   Feb-25-10 07:38 AM   #20 
  - all you need is love vs. all you need is hate  spanone   Feb-25-10 07:51 AM   #21 
  - They are slightly similar, on the surface  CHelms   Feb-25-10 08:10 AM   #24 
  - Only in as much as they're angry and express distrust of their govt.  damyank913   Feb-25-10 08:14 AM   # 
  - Good article.  Odin2005   Feb-25-10 08:14 AM   #25 
  - The "60s movement" it most closely resembles would be the KKK.  bullwinkle428   Feb-25-10 08:15 AM   #27 
  - The tea party is disenchanted republicans who lost their jobs  Kokonoe   Feb-25-10 08:20 AM   #31 
  - No, the "New Right" looks a lot like the "Old Right" of the 60s....  Richard Steele   Feb-25-10 08:22 AM   #32 
  - YAF  Warren Stupidity   Feb-25-10 08:27 AM   #37 
  - It does seem that the Teabaggers  Art_from_Ark   Feb-25-10 08:22 PM   #83 
  - Yeah. I have a BIL who has been a consistent racist gun nut  Hardrada   Feb-26-10 01:04 PM   #106 
  - The bulk of the Tea Baggers  The Wizard   Feb-25-10 08:25 AM   #34 
  - "Hated them for their freedom" LOL, epic win!  Odin2005   Feb-25-10 08:32 AM   #39 
  - Right on man, groovy!  berni_mccoy   Feb-25-10 08:26 AM   #36 
  - Well, now and then one needs to see an incoherent argument just so you know what one looks like  ThomWV   Feb-25-10 08:39 AM   #42 
  - The best response on the thread.  David Zephyr   Feb-25-10 03:32 PM   #77 
  - Wait... You mean this wasn't The Onion?  The_Commonist   Feb-25-10 08:45 AM   #44 
  - The far Right fringe is unstable, lacking empathy and heavily armed. And more easily lead  KittyWampus   Feb-25-10 08:54 AM   #46 
  - Such bullshit  whatchamacallit   Feb-25-10 09:27 AM   #54 
  - It seems to me that "New" Democrats simply haven't learned how to co-opt this right wing  Romulox   Feb-25-10 09:29 AM   #55 
  - T-baggers are owned and financed by the right wing elites . . .  defendandprotect   Feb-25-10 09:45 AM   #57 
  - I hope so. The New Left was fucking useless. nt  anonymous171   Feb-25-10 10:49 AM   #60 
  - Oh that's harsh. Look at all we accomplished:  Warren Stupidity   Feb-25-10 01:46 PM   #69 
  - Further weak, drastically misguided attempts to align TBs w/the left  Echo In Light   Feb-25-10 10:50 AM   #61 
  - It's true that in the 60s "The Movement" contained many disparate groups.  Jim__   Feb-25-10 10:56 AM   #62 
  - Will, I was actually AROUND in the 60's  placton   Feb-25-10 11:51 AM   #64 
  - It wasn't my comparison.  WilliamPitt   Feb-25-10 12:21 PM   #68 
  - "but OUR causes were many"  G_j   Feb-25-10 11:57 AM   #65 
  - Sorta like comparing Mussolini's march on Rome to Gandhi's march to the sea.  Tierra_y_Libertad   Feb-25-10 11:58 AM   #66 
  - thank you!  G_j   Feb-25-10 12:00 PM   #67 
     - Yes, My Thelonious-loving brother!  Prof Lester   Feb-26-10 12:22 PM   #96 
  - Not really  KingFlorez   Feb-25-10 02:03 PM   #72 
  - I'm going to disagree.  cornermouse   Feb-25-10 02:11 PM   #73 
  - No fucking way.  Blue_In_AK   Feb-25-10 02:19 PM   #75 
  - Seriously...  madriver   Feb-25-10 04:17 PM   #78 
  - Yes, that's exactly on target.  Jackpine Radical   Feb-25-10 07:30 PM   #81 
  - I think they're still the same rednecks they were in the 70s.  RainDog   Feb-25-10 07:50 PM   #82 
  - If the Left embraces diversity, why on earth would anyone expect us  EFerrari   Feb-25-10 08:25 PM   #84 
  - Yet it's odd how some DUers clearly do NOT embrace diversity  Echo In Light   Feb-26-10 12:30 PM   #99 
     - Yes. DU is now huge so, we can count on our statistical share of  EFerrari   Feb-26-10 02:37 PM   #117 
        - And then some...depending upon the topic at hand  Echo In Light   Feb-26-10 02:41 PM   #118 
  - Bullshit.  bemildred   Feb-25-10 08:43 PM   #86 
  - the teabaggers are the mullet of political movements  RainDog   Feb-25-10 10:18 PM   #90 
  - Except for the difference between Love and Hate, you mean?  annabanana   Feb-26-10 05:43 AM   #92 
  - Perhaps the same dynamics but much different goals.  zeemike   Feb-26-10 07:49 AM   #94 
  - Can/t believe I see a Will Pitts post at  zeemike   Feb-26-10 08:00 AM   #95 
  - 'Baggers hate African Americans. Period.  Prof Lester   Feb-26-10 12:29 PM   #98 
  - I believe all the ideologies in the New Left mentioned in your OP had a common basis  laughingliberal   Feb-26-10 12:34 PM   #100 
  - Oh yeah? Show us their Baez or Dylan or Lennon!  Hardrada   Feb-26-10 01:10 PM   #107 
  - we were anti practically everything the Teas are for. The only comparison  librechik   Feb-26-10 01:18 PM   #110 
  - New Right VS, 60's new Left  lotuspetal   Feb-26-10 01:46 PM   #112 

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