| 68. The burden of proof is "preponderance of the evidence." |
|
Edited on Wed Feb-24-10 02:32 PM by TexasObserver
It's not some higher standard. All the jury must do is determine it is more likely than not, and they can do that on the basis of one statement this guy might have made.
|
| - IRS worker's widow sues pilot's wife |
cali |
Feb-24-10 11:21 AM |
#0 |
 -
Sad all around. |
Brickbat |
Feb-24-10 11:23 AM |
#1 |
| -
Don't people normally sue an estate in these cases? |
Barack_America |
Feb-24-10 11:24 AM |
#2 |
 -
She's not suing the estate |
NoNothing |
Feb-24-10 11:29 AM |
#9 |
| -
Hence my question. |
Barack_America |
Feb-24-10 11:30 AM |
#10 |
 -
They're not suing the estate for this claim. It's against the wife. |
TexasObserver |
Feb-24-10 02:19 PM |
#57 |
| -
Good summary except the word "slighest indication". |
Statistical |
Feb-24-10 02:22 PM |
#59 |
| -
The burden of proof is "preponderance of the evidence." |
TexasObserver |
Feb-24-10 02:31 PM |
#68 |
| -
Not a statement the guy made. |
Statistical |
Feb-24-10 02:37 PM |
#74 |
| -
You imagine "proof" in court is more than it is. |
TexasObserver |
Feb-24-10 02:53 PM |
#88 |
| -
Juries are imperfect however that is why a complaint should have some merit. |
Statistical |
Feb-24-10 02:59 PM |
#94 |
| -
So do I. |
virgogal |
Feb-24-10 11:51 AM |
#23 |
| -
There may not be an "estate" because he has a surviving spouse. |
Hassin Bin Sober |
Feb-24-10 11:33 AM |
#15 |
| -
Ah, thanks for that. |
Barack_America |
Feb-24-10 11:44 AM |
#21 |
| -
It depends actually |
NoNothing |
Feb-24-10 11:58 AM |
#25 |
| -
If everything, like most middle class people, is held as joint tenants with right of survivorship .. |
Hassin Bin Sober |
Feb-24-10 12:17 PM |
#28 |
| -
Correct but that is different then saying there is no estate. |
Statistical |
Feb-24-10 01:57 PM |
#38 |
| -
That depends on the state laws on marital property |
NoNothing |
Feb-24-10 02:38 PM |
#76 |
| -
It differs per state. |
Shell Beau |
Feb-24-10 02:48 PM |
#82 |
| -
Marital property is different than items such as bank accts, cars and houses held as joint tenants |
Hassin Bin Sober |
Feb-24-10 03:07 PM |
#98 |
| -
Texas.... |
sendero |
Feb-24-10 07:29 PM |
#159 |
| -
If there is no will, then it goes to his legal heirs as determined by the |
Shell Beau |
Feb-24-10 01:51 PM |
#35 |
| -
Yes but there is still an estate. |
Statistical |
Feb-24-10 02:26 PM |
#63 |
| -
Are you saying there is ALWAYS probate? |
Hassin Bin Sober |
Feb-24-10 02:54 PM |
#91 |
| -
Unless the estate is empty. |
Statistical |
Feb-24-10 03:13 PM |
#102 |
| -
I think we are on the same page. |
Hassin Bin Sober |
Feb-24-10 03:17 PM |
#107 |
| -
That doesn't sound right. Everyone has an estate. |
Shell Beau |
Feb-24-10 01:50 PM |
#33 |
| -
Not true. 1) there is ALWAYS an estate. it may be a worthless estate but it is there ... |
Statistical |
Feb-24-10 01:56 PM |
#37 |
| -
I guess I should have been more specific. Yes, everyone has an estate but in a lot of cases ... |
Hassin Bin Sober |
Feb-24-10 03:13 PM |
#103 |
| -
That is true (I think) or at least in most estates. |
Statistical |
Feb-24-10 03:14 PM |
#104 |
| -
Is she his 2nd wife? |
WolverineDG |
Feb-24-10 02:52 PM |
#87 |
| -
He committed suicide, so no life insurance |
Love Bug |
Feb-24-10 07:03 PM |
#157 |
| -
No necessarily. If there IS a life policy most likely suicide is only precluded first two years. |
Hassin Bin Sober |
Feb-24-10 09:47 PM |
#177 |
| -
and you'd lose that bet |
griffi94 |
Feb-25-10 08:09 AM |
#183 |
| -
A surviving spouse and a brazillion dollars in back taxes(nt) |
Jeff In Milwaukee |
Feb-24-10 07:47 PM |
#163 |
| -
Don't think you can sue an estate in Texas |
End Of The Road |
Feb-24-10 01:51 PM |
#34 |
| -
If someone dies, and they owe money to creditors (or whoever), |
Shell Beau |
Feb-24-10 01:54 PM |
#36 |
| -
Not in Texas |
End Of The Road |
Feb-24-10 02:00 PM |
#39 |
| -
How can the executor or administrator be sued if they aren't the |
Shell Beau |
Feb-24-10 02:05 PM |
#45 |
| -
They can't and aren't. You file a claim against the estate (link) |
Statistical |
Feb-24-10 02:12 PM |
#50 |
| -
That wouldn't make sense. |
Statistical |
Feb-24-10 02:00 PM |
#41 |
| -
Hey, I said I just live here, I'm not an attorney, but |
End Of The Road |
Feb-24-10 02:13 PM |
#51 |
| -
Mr Blow seems more likely. Mrs. Hunter is an interested party in the estate and is unlikely to be |
Statistical |
Feb-24-10 02:17 PM |
#56 |
| -
Yes, you can, but you're not going to get much |
WolverineDG |
Feb-24-10 02:53 PM |
#90 |
| -
Don't all life insurance policies preclude payout for suicide? |
hlthe2b |
Feb-24-10 11:25 AM |
#3 |
| -
There is usually a two year "suicide clause". |
Poker Player |
Feb-24-10 11:28 AM |
#7 |
| -
Same here on initial reaction, but she has a point with "a duty to avoid a foreseeable risk of |
FSogol |
Feb-24-10 11:25 AM |
#4 |
| -
Perhaps the point is to send a message to those defending his actions... |
hlthe2b |
Feb-24-10 11:26 AM |
#5 |
| -
If they were added to the lawsuit they would shut up in a hurry. |
theoldman |
Feb-24-10 11:28 AM |
#8 |
| -
If that's the case |
atreides1 |
Feb-24-10 11:30 AM |
#11 |
| -
She was not in a position to know what his imminent plans or |
hlthe2b |
Feb-24-10 11:32 AM |
#12 |
| -
Exactly! |
Larkspur |
Feb-24-10 12:21 PM |
#29 |
| -
And even if there is any, doesn't the IRS get first dibs? |
hughee99 |
Feb-24-10 11:33 AM |
#13 |
| -
And how would the wife had known that? |
atreides1 |
Feb-24-10 11:35 AM |
#16 |
| -
Pretty hard to prove beyond reasonable doubt that a wife ... |
Statistical |
Feb-24-10 02:05 PM |
#44 |
| -
Beyond a reasonable doubt is the standard for a criminal case. Not civil. n/t |
Raineyb |
Feb-24-10 02:50 PM |
#85 |
| -
That's what I was thinking. |
superduperfarleft |
Feb-24-10 03:32 PM |
#116 |
| -
And if she was worried he might assault someone, did nothing |
Raineyb |
Feb-24-10 03:53 PM |
#130 |
| -
So what do you propose she do? |
superduperfarleft |
Feb-24-10 04:28 PM |
#140 |
| -
No but she could have called the cops for beating on her ass and warned them |
Raineyb |
Feb-24-10 08:05 PM |
#168 |
| -
Ah, so you ARE blaming an abused wife for not doing something about her situation. |
superduperfarleft |
Feb-24-10 09:27 PM |
#174 |
| -
except he didn't beat her |
griffi94 |
Feb-25-10 08:14 AM |
#184 |
| -
So it was foreseeable that he would fly his plane into a building the next day? |
Fire_Medic_Dave |
Feb-24-10 04:00 PM |
# |
| -
Of course. Isn't that the first thing that comes to mind in a domestic violence situation? n/t |
superduperfarleft |
Feb-24-10 04:29 PM |
#142 |
| -
Those who are calling Stack a hero need to be reminded of the truth |
left coaster |
Feb-24-10 11:27 AM |
#6 |
| -
Explain that one to us |
atreides1 |
Feb-24-10 11:40 AM |
#20 |
| -
I don't know what he meant, but I'll give an answer of my own. |
jobycom |
Feb-24-10 12:12 PM |
#27 |
| -
All of these women need to mellow out. |
951-Riverside |
Feb-24-10 11:33 AM |
#14 |
| -
Should sue the Republican Party |
Winterblues |
Feb-24-10 11:36 AM |
#17 |
| -
+1 or at least Rep. King |
ecstatic |
Feb-24-10 11:38 AM |
#19 |
| -
I feel for Mrs. Hunter, but there is no way Mrs. Stack could have foreseen |
ecstatic |
Feb-24-10 11:37 AM |
#18 |
| -
She's just suing to make sure her bases are covered. |
jobycom |
Feb-24-10 11:50 AM |
#22 |
| -
Good post! |
Spazito |
Feb-24-10 02:06 PM |
#46 |
| -
More power to Mrs. Hunter. If I were an attorney, I'd file the suit for free. |
sinkingfeeling |
Feb-24-10 11:53 AM |
#24 |
| -
Ugh |
NoNothing |
Feb-24-10 12:01 PM |
#26 |
| -
Because I doubt that a person marries and remains with another person without sharing basic beliefs. |
sinkingfeeling |
Feb-24-10 01:48 PM |
#31 |
| -
Why does Mrs. Hunter HAVE to sue anyone? |
superduperfarleft |
Feb-24-10 01:50 PM |
#32 |
| -
This is the USA,. We sue everybody. So because Mrs. Hunter's husband was murdered she should just |
sinkingfeeling |
Feb-24-10 02:01 PM |
#42 |
| -
She can only be sued if she has liability. |
Statistical |
Feb-24-10 02:10 PM |
#49 |
| -
OJ actually committed the crime. Mrs. Stack committed no crime. |
superduperfarleft |
Feb-24-10 03:18 PM |
#108 |
| -
I heard an interview with the attorney this morning |
End Of The Road |
Feb-24-10 02:03 PM |
#43 |
| -
Interesting... |
beevul |
Feb-24-10 08:59 PM |
#172 |
| -
no it won't |
griffi94 |
Feb-25-10 08:20 AM |
#185 |
| -
THERE IS ALWAYS AN ESTATE. |
Statistical |
Feb-24-10 02:09 PM |
#48 |
| -
OK, but there's not necessarily any MONEY or ASSETS in such an estate. |
Romulox |
Feb-24-10 02:14 PM |
#54 |
| -
Agreed but the claim is against the estate. If the estate has no money they the claim is worthless. |
Statistical |
Feb-24-10 02:20 PM |
#58 |
| -
No--this lady is claiming the widow of the pilot herself breeched a duty as to the IRS agent |
Romulox |
Feb-24-10 02:24 PM |
#61 |
| -
I understand however now the burden of proof rises. |
Statistical |
Feb-24-10 02:29 PM |
#65 |
| -
I largely agree with you. |
Romulox |
Feb-24-10 02:36 PM |
#72 |
| -
Romulox mark you calender (we rarely agree on things) and I agre with you on this one. |
Statistical |
Feb-24-10 02:45 PM |
#79 |
| -
Not if all assets are held in joint ownership with the rights of suvivorship. The survivor, Mrs. |
sinkingfeeling |
Feb-24-10 02:53 PM |
#89 |
| -
Our Constitution prevents prosecutions for thought crimes. Look it up! nt |
Romulox |
Feb-24-10 02:13 PM |
#53 |
| -
Not true. My own parents are conservatives, my husband is more conservative then me. |
Jennicut |
Feb-24-10 03:57 PM |
#132 |
| -
Good point, anyone have Carville's number? |
Fla_Democrat |
Feb-25-10 08:38 AM |
#186 |
| -
Isn't that what people are doing who are going after Mrs. Hunter? |
Raineyb |
Feb-24-10 02:22 PM |
#60 |
| -
Wife of "asshole terrorist" isn't a crime. |
Statistical |
Feb-24-10 02:32 PM |
#69 |
| -
If she had an inkling of what he was thinking and did nothing she should be punished. |
Raineyb |
Feb-24-10 02:39 PM |
#77 |
| -
You know, despite what the DU Binary Thinking brigade says, |
superduperfarleft |
Feb-24-10 03:20 PM |
#110 |
| -
And yet I don't hear anyone calling Mrs. Stack names. They damn sure are calling Mrs. Hunter names. |
Raineyb |
Feb-24-10 03:44 PM |
#124 |
| -
Who is calling her names? |
superduperfarleft |
Feb-24-10 03:47 PM |
#127 |
| -
I haven't seen anyone here calling Mrs. Hunter names. Do you have a link? |
Fire_Medic_Dave |
Feb-24-10 04:07 PM |
#134 |
| -
This works for me. |
Raineyb |
Feb-24-10 04:24 PM |
#139 |
| -
Reaching... n/t |
superduperfarleft |
Feb-24-10 04:29 PM |
#141 |
| -
I don't think so. It was uncalled for considering the circumstances. n/t |
Raineyb |
Feb-24-10 04:30 PM |
#143 |
| -
I think it's a low thing to do as well. |
superduperfarleft |
Feb-24-10 04:32 PM |
#144 |
| -
Your sympathy oozes from every post you've put up. |
Raineyb |
Feb-24-10 08:06 PM |
#169 |
| -
Really? I'm sympathizing with both of them. |
superduperfarleft |
Feb-24-10 09:28 PM |
#175 |
| -
Alrighty then. |
Fire_Medic_Dave |
Feb-24-10 07:57 PM |
#167 |
| -
Why? You like punishing victims? |
Statistical |
Feb-24-10 02:06 PM |
#47 |
| -
The VICTIM is Mrs. Hunter. n/t |
Raineyb |
Feb-24-10 02:25 PM |
#62 |
| -
There are many victims. |
Statistical |
Feb-24-10 02:30 PM |
#66 |
| -
No one said Mrs. Stack is a criminal. But that doesn't mean she's not liable. |
Raineyb |
Feb-24-10 02:42 PM |
#78 |
| -
Is she the mother of the daughter who thinks Stack is a hero? |
proud2BlibKansan |
Feb-24-10 12:42 PM |
#30 |
| -
no sheryl isn't samanthas mother |
griffi94 |
Feb-25-10 08:43 AM |
#187 |
| -
Smart move on the part of the murdered man's family. |
TexasObserver |
Feb-24-10 02:00 PM |
#40 |
| -
Suing the estate is valid. Suing the wife directly is only valid IF she had knowledge. |
Statistical |
Feb-24-10 02:16 PM |
#55 |
| -
Suing the wife is valid if she was in any way negligent. |
TexasObserver |
Feb-24-10 02:26 PM |
#64 |
| -
Does it have to be mutually exclusive? Can Mrs. Hunter sue both Mrs. Stack AND Mr. Stack's estate? |
Raineyb |
Feb-24-10 02:31 PM |
#67 |
| -
No. They will pursue both claims against both defendants. |
TexasObserver |
Feb-24-10 02:37 PM |
#73 |
| -
Seems to me that it would be wise to tie up the assets to keep them from being moved otherwise it |
Raineyb |
Feb-24-10 02:46 PM |
#80 |
| -
Hunter's attorneys are just trying to box in the assets and the evidence. |
TexasObserver |
Feb-24-10 03:04 PM |
#95 |
| -
It's too bad so many people seem to think that Mrs. Hunter should take Mrs. Stack's well being |
Raineyb |
Feb-24-10 03:15 PM |
#105 |
| -
A battered spouse going ot hotel doesn't meet the burden of proof. |
Statistical |
Feb-24-10 02:36 PM |
#71 |
| -
It all depends on what the evidence shows. |
TexasObserver |
Feb-24-10 02:47 PM |
#81 |
| -
Another reason why judges shouldn't be elected. |
Statistical |
Feb-24-10 02:49 PM |
#84 |
| -
So says the Republican party. |
TexasObserver |
Feb-24-10 03:04 PM |
#97 |
| -
Correct me if I am wrong but isn't the complaint suppose to have some element of evidence. |
Statistical |
Feb-24-10 02:55 PM |
#92 |
| -
A pleading is to put defendants on notice of the claim. |
TexasObserver |
Feb-24-10 03:33 PM |
#117 |
| -
I see. Well I will wait with interest for next filings. |
Statistical |
Feb-24-10 03:39 PM |
#119 |
| -
The reports, in the media at least, go a little beyond "she went to a hotel" |
Hassin Bin Sober |
Feb-24-10 05:04 PM |
#150 |
| -
Based on what we know so far.... no. |
Statistical |
Feb-24-10 05:37 PM |
#152 |
| -
Deleted sub-thread |
Name removed |
Feb-24-10 02:13 PM |
#52 |
| -
The widow had her house burned down around her the same day. What does she have left? |
Hekate |
Feb-24-10 02:33 PM |
#70 |
| -
Well thats just plain greedy and mean... |
winyanstaz |
Feb-24-10 02:37 PM |
#75 |
| -
The IRS didn't kill the woman's husband. |
Raineyb |
Feb-24-10 02:49 PM |
#83 |
| -
Neither did Mrs. Stacks. |
Statistical |
Feb-24-10 02:50 PM |
#86 |
| -
If it could be proven that Mrs. Stack could have done something to stop Mr. Stack then she is liable |
Raineyb |
Feb-24-10 02:55 PM |
#93 |
| -
should the family of every drunk driver be sued just to see whether it can be |
onenote |
Feb-24-10 03:04 PM |
#96 |
| -
That would be up to the family of the deceased wouldn't it? |
Raineyb |
Feb-24-10 03:12 PM |
#101 |
| -
No it shouldn't be up to the someone if they want to file a baseless claim. |
Statistical |
Feb-24-10 03:19 PM |
#109 |
| -
THey can file the claim. Whether or not it is baseless would be up to the court to |
Raineyb |
Feb-24-10 03:46 PM |
#125 |
| -
The lawsuit as filed is BS. |
Statistical |
Feb-24-10 03:08 PM |
#99 |
| -
Whether or not Mrs. Stack is negligent is for the court to decide. |
Raineyb |
Feb-24-10 03:16 PM |
#106 |
| -
That isn't justice. |
Statistical |
Feb-24-10 03:21 PM |
#112 |
| -
THAT is how our court system works. |
Raineyb |
Feb-24-10 03:50 PM |
#129 |
| -
Does the fact that even the Police have no duty to protect change your mind? |
Statistical |
Feb-24-10 06:17 PM |
#156 |
| -
I really doubt they expect to get anything out of this. I'm sure the suit is there for discovery ... |
Hassin Bin Sober |
Feb-24-10 03:23 PM |
#113 |
| -
I don't think that is the only thing. |
Statistical |
Feb-24-10 03:37 PM |
#118 |
| -
first..neither did the man's wife. |
winyanstaz |
Feb-24-10 03:47 PM |
#128 |
| -
You don't know that. THAT is the part to be decided in court. |
Raineyb |
Feb-24-10 04:22 PM |
#137 |
| -
I'm finding it hard to feel sorry for a "widow" |
WolverineDG |
Feb-24-10 04:51 PM |
#148 |
| -
KENS5 in San Antonio interviewed the attorney for Mrs. Hunter. |
sinkingfeeling |
Feb-24-10 03:09 PM |
#100 |
| -
The lawyer told the truth but not the WHOLE truth. |
Statistical |
Feb-24-10 03:31 PM |
#115 |
| -
That's a gross mischaracterization of what the lawyer is doing. |
TexasObserver |
Feb-24-10 03:47 PM |
#126 |
| -
"The goal is to hold the Stack family accountable." The is the problem with lawyers. |
Statistical |
Feb-24-10 05:36 PM |
#151 |
| -
You summarily find no fault with the widow, but there may be. |
TexasObserver |
Feb-24-10 05:41 PM |
#153 |
| -
Here's a summary of the lawsuit. |
TexasObserver |
Feb-24-10 03:21 PM |
#111 |
| -
FACTS section is very light |
Statistical |
Feb-24-10 03:29 PM |
#114 |
| -
Don't worry. They're working on a monster Amended Pleading. |
TexasObserver |
Feb-24-10 03:39 PM |
#120 |
| -
We kinda are carrying on a conversation at top and bottom of the thread. |
Statistical |
Feb-24-10 03:42 PM |
#122 |
| -
I think there will be facts that will come out in discovery to support the claim. |
TexasObserver |
Feb-24-10 04:08 PM |
#136 |
| -
I'm curious where the legal duty to warn comes from? |
onenote |
Feb-24-10 03:44 PM |
#123 |
| -
Deleted message |
Name removed |
Feb-24-10 04:44 PM |
#146 |
| -
Why would Mrs. Stack have to proven negligent? The IRS employee was |
mudplanet |
Feb-24-10 03:53 PM |
#131 |
| -
if the suit is against Joseph Stack's estate based on his actions |
onenote |
Feb-24-10 04:23 PM |
#138 |
| -
The guy who murdered him is dead. The woman being sued didn't kill anybody. |
Romulox |
Feb-24-10 04:47 PM |
#147 |
| -
Yea, and the murderer is liable for damages to the mudered's family |
mudplanet |
Feb-24-10 07:26 PM |
#158 |
| -
Suing the estate is one thing. If you read you would have understood. |
Statistical |
Feb-24-10 07:39 PM |
#161 |
| -
WTF? No it isn't |
Statistical |
Feb-24-10 05:45 PM |
#154 |
| -
See my post above. I suspect that the lawyer filed against Mrs. Stacks as |
mudplanet |
Feb-24-10 07:37 PM |
#160 |
| -
That wasn't your claim. |
Statistical |
Feb-24-10 07:43 PM |
#162 |
| -
As I said, I believe the suit was filed to allow them to freeze her assests. |
mudplanet |
Feb-24-10 08:18 PM |
#170 |
| -
Nice backtrack. But that wasn't your claim. Here are your words. |
Statistical |
Feb-24-10 08:43 PM |
#171 |
| -
Oh my goodness. You've defeated me again, moriarity. |
mudplanet |
Feb-24-10 09:30 PM |
#176 |
| -
The estate has nothing. |
Statistical |
Feb-24-10 09:56 PM |
#178 |
| -
Moriarity, you're able to see into the future. That explains it. Mrs. Stacks should hire you. |
mudplanet |
Feb-24-10 10:34 PM |
#179 |
| -
You are mistaken ... failure to warn is not universal. |
Statistical |
Feb-24-10 10:50 PM |
#180 |
| -
Wow. You're right. Failure to warn is only universal with therapists and |
mudplanet |
Feb-25-10 11:00 AM |
#189 |
| -
Why do they want to keep the autopsy under wraps? Any idea how that affects the case? |
Hassin Bin Sober |
Feb-24-10 03:39 PM |
#121 |
| -
I think it's mainly for privacy reasons. |
TexasObserver |
Feb-24-10 04:00 PM |
#133 |
| -
That's the part I don't understand. |
reflection |
Feb-24-10 04:07 PM |
#135 |
| -
Since the house is burned up and the plane is blown up, I don't imagine |
cutlassmama |
Feb-24-10 04:33 PM |
#145 |
| -
Wrongful death... |
hayu_lol |
Feb-24-10 04:55 PM |
#149 |
| -
Wait a second THERAPISTS don't even have a duty to warn in Texas. |
Statistical |
Feb-24-10 06:00 PM |
#155 |
| -
Just plain silly.. |
sendero |
Feb-24-10 07:49 PM |
#164 |
| -
Fascinating Case. Does anybody know if he had formed any kind of LLC? NT |
Mike 03 |
Feb-24-10 07:54 PM |
#165 |
| -
Rec, by the way. I can't think of any logical reason to dis-rec a thread like this. NT |
Mike 03 |
Feb-24-10 07:55 PM |
#166 |
| -
If anything she should be suing that idiot of a daughter |
RFKHumphreyObama |
Feb-24-10 09:02 PM |
#173 |
| -
For what crime? |
Statistical |
Feb-24-10 10:55 PM |
#182 |
| -
That's a stretch |
Canuckistanian |
Feb-24-10 10:54 PM |
#181 |
| -
On the face of it, doesn't hold water... |
ljm2002 |
Feb-25-10 08:44 AM |
#188 |
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