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Reply #45: That's part of the distinction I'm trying to point out. [View All]

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noamnety Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 08:37 AM
Response to Reply #39
45. That's part of the distinction I'm trying to point out.
They are not all run by charter management corporations, or any other type of corporations. Ours is run by a principal, who reports to an all volunteer unpaid school board and the county public school district. All the paychecks are going to state employees, all the assets (buildings, computers, etc) are owned by the state. All the financial records are open to the public, the parents or anyone can request them at any time (and they do).

Most are run by private companies, I'm the first to admit that, and like you I oppose it. If tax payer dollars are supporting it, then all the assets should be publicly owned. If they are privately owned, that gives incentive to the schools to start up, use tax dollars to buy equipment, then fold in a few years and - voila! they suddenly own a bunch of assets they never paid for. Maybe I'm not using words precisely enough, because I get that a school can claim they are nonprofit, but be giving out obscene paychecks to a contractor who obviously is "profiting" by it. That's like red cross or other "nonprofits" where the CEO is pocketing hundreds of thousands of dollars a year in salary. Technically it's a nonprofit because the "corporation" doesn't stockpile money I guess (?) but in my gut if someone is taking home 500K a year, I can't really consider that NONprofit. That gets into the corporate personhood in a way maybe, if the corporation doesn't profit, but employees are pocketing disgusting amounts of tax dollars, I don't know how we separate that out.

I think people would have less complaints about charters if they were all managed like other public schools, with the same oversight, and the distinction really became just one of choice of atmosphere and no residency restrictions - smaller schools for kids that need/prefer that environment, a focus on the arts or on science, etc. No test requirements that private schools or magnets use to exclude students, no residency requirements that traditional public schools use to exclude students. To me, the big advantage of them is purely giving students a choice of educational and environmental styles so they don't end up hating school, so they have an option to be in smaller communities - which tend to value misfits a little more in general since there is more of a chance to get to know everyone in the school as individuals.

That doesn't necessarily have to happen in a charter way - I just think it needs to happen in general to serve the needs of all kids. However it happens, I don't really care - except that like you I think if it's a public system (taking tax dollars) all the employees need to be government employees and the assets need to be public assets, and unlike some people, I think if it's a public system all students should have equal access to it regardless of whether they live in a good neighborhood or a bad one.
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  -Discipline methods from a charter school that would get public school teachers in serious trouble. madfloridian  Jan-30-10 06:51 PM   #0 
  - If this happened in a public school district, a teacher would  tonysam   Jan-30-10 06:54 PM   #1 
  - If it happened in our public school district, the teacher would be hospitalized with serious  bertman   Jan-31-10 01:04 PM   #55 
  - Well golly gee!  Lyric   Jan-30-10 07:00 PM   #2 
  - You got it  Old Codger   Jan-30-10 07:59 PM   #6 
  - Deleted sub-thread  Name removed   Jan-30-10 09:51 PM   #12 
  - To whom are charter schools directly accountable? Like all corporations in theory to the shareholder  Vincardog   Jan-31-10 04:31 PM   #62 
  - I don't think I understand.  Tim01   Jan-30-10 07:03 PM   #3 
  - I don't think I mentioned paddling, but that is no longer done...  madfloridian   Jan-30-10 08:06 PM   #7 
  - It's up to parents to correct that kind of behavior, not teachers.  Danger Mouse   Jan-30-10 10:01 PM   #15 
     - Those students should all be kicked out of school. nt  Tim01   Jan-30-10 10:03 PM   #16 
     - There are 'alternative' schools for students who behave that way.  Danger Mouse   Jan-30-10 10:06 PM   #17 
        - Pre-prison. BTDT nt  Tim01   Jan-30-10 10:13 PM   #19 
        - My husband went to an alternative high school  liberal_at_heart   Jan-30-10 11:38 PM   #29 
     - Well sure  northzax   Jan-30-10 10:25 PM   #20 
        - How much time does a teacher have to attend to individual students in a public school, though?  Danger Mouse   Jan-30-10 11:23 PM   #24 
  - I guess corporal punishment must be  Starry Messenger   Jan-30-10 07:05 PM   #4 
  - Ain't it amazing? 1st article praising charter for what public schools are forbidden to do.  madfloridian   Jan-30-10 09:06 PM   #9 
  - Keep your eye on Ben Chavis too.  Starry Messenger   Jan-30-10 09:49 PM   #11 
  - But only if a charter does them.  donco6   Jan-30-10 11:27 PM   #25 
  - The parents should be called to answer for the behavior of their kids.  JDPriestly   Jan-31-10 02:49 AM   #42 
     - Sometimes the parents are in the gangs.  Starry Messenger   Jan-31-10 11:11 AM   #48 
  - And Obama's Secretary of Education Arne Duncan is promoting this. Fire Arne. (nt)  w4rma   Jan-30-10 07:11 PM   #5 
  - Won't happen. Notice these tactics get approval here at DU  madfloridian   Jan-31-10 12:27 AM   #41 
  - How is this not assault?  XemaSab   Jan-30-10 08:13 PM   #8 
  - Because 'the rotten kids probably deserved it' or some crap like that.  Danger Mouse   Jan-30-10 10:07 PM   #18 
  - It is assault and abuse  noamnety   Jan-30-10 11:33 PM   #27 
  - Assault  onpatrol98   Jan-31-10 12:07 PM   #53 
  - Suggested motto  gratuitous   Jan-30-10 09:18 PM   #10 
  - Intimidation and humiliation teaches blind fear of authority...which is just what they want.  Danger Mouse   Jan-30-10 09:56 PM   #13 
  - This shit wouldn't have happened in a public school even when I was a kid,  MadHound   Jan-30-10 09:59 PM   #14 
  - Oh, it happened, alright. You just never witnessed it.  Joe Fields   Jan-31-10 12:18 AM   #40 
     - Actually no, it didn't  MadHound   Jan-31-10 10:35 AM   #46 
        - Aw, now you made Joe Fields sad.  Commie Pinko Dirtbag   Jan-31-10 12:09 PM   #54 
        - .....  madfloridian   Jan-31-10 10:01 PM   #67 
        - Me neither  proud2BlibKansan   Jan-31-10 01:09 PM   #56 
  - Please don't characterize all charters that way.  noamnety   Jan-30-10 11:00 PM   #21 
  - I said "a charter school". I made it clear I referred mostly to one.  madfloridian   Jan-30-10 11:34 PM   #28 
     - and I am with you on that.  noamnety   Jan-30-10 11:53 PM   #36 
        - The "private charters" get taxpayer money.  madfloridian   Jan-31-10 12:13 AM   #39 
           - More than you know  hapkidogal   Jan-31-10 08:05 AM   #44 
           - I saw this kind of stuff developing.  Catshrink   Jan-31-10 11:29 AM   #51 
           - That's part of the distinction I'm trying to point out.  noamnety   Jan-31-10 08:37 AM   #45 
  - It makes me worry about how Gay kids are treated in Charter schools.  donheld   Jan-30-10 11:15 PM   #22 
  - In some cases better, in some worse, I imagine  noamnety   Jan-30-10 11:31 PM   #26 
     - There are over 4,000 Gay-Straight Alliances in public high schools.  donco6   Jan-30-10 11:40 PM   #30 
        - My daughter's public school has a gay-straight alliance  liberal_at_heart   Jan-30-10 11:42 PM   #31 
        - Yes, I've been the advisor for one of them in our public charter school.  noamnety   Jan-30-10 11:47 PM   #34 
           - Just stating a fact.  donco6   Jan-30-10 11:52 PM   #35 
              - I think a lot of gay kids get bullied without mercy at school  noamnety   Jan-30-10 11:55 PM   #37 
                 - Then that administrator should be disciplined.  donco6   Jan-30-10 11:59 PM   #38 
  - K & R  fallingrock666   Jan-30-10 11:16 PM   #23 
  - Yeah no shit. There's a reason ones a public and ones private.  newtothegame   Jan-30-10 11:44 PM   #32 
  - -1  Mithreal   Jan-31-10 12:00 PM   #52 
  - Does it strike anyone else as obvious  lolly   Jan-30-10 11:44 PM   #33 
  - agree  Djinn   Jan-31-10 07:08 AM   #43 
  - Public taxpayer money goes to these schools...they get our money but not regulated.  madfloridian   Jan-31-10 11:05 AM   #47 
  - Well said!  Catshrink   Jan-31-10 11:25 AM   #50 
  - Houston Chronicle says KIPP excels.  madfloridian   Jan-31-10 11:21 AM   #49 
  - Recommend. Back in the day, 50's/60's when I was in school, paddling was allowed but  bertman   Jan-31-10 01:18 PM   #57 
  - hmm...  chervilant   Jan-31-10 01:52 PM   #58 
  - Carlisle Indian Industrial School  sulphurdunn   Jan-31-10 02:13 PM   #59 
  - Wow, I had to look that up.  madfloridian   Jan-31-10 02:31 PM   #60 
     - St. Hope, another charter school tainted with scandal  cjbgreen   Jan-31-10 02:52 PM   #61 
     - It's sort of misleading to call him a Democrat.  LeftyMom   Jan-31-10 10:06 PM   #68 
     - Yes, and so native children were taken away from their families...  prairierose   Jan-31-10 07:12 PM   #66 
  - Pity the fool that messes with Mr. T!  jpak   Jan-31-10 04:35 PM   #63 
  - ttt  Blue_Tires   Jan-31-10 05:29 PM   #64 
  - Serious trouble? More like fired.  proud2BlibKansan   Jan-31-10 05:33 PM   #65 
  - Love your threads.  Jakes Progress   Feb-01-10 10:22 PM   #69 

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