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Reply #94: And, I could buy into that if we had the same "bell" that we had several decades ago. [View All]

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Atticus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-17-10 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #5
94. And, I could buy into that if we had the same "bell" that we had several decades ago.
The problem today is that the middle of our bell holds positions similar to the right fringe of our bell in the '60's and '70's. i.e., todays moderate is yesterday's "Blue Dog".

The Bell Curve argument has always operated from a position of fear and uncertainty: "Let's play it safe! Let's not piss off ANYbody!"

There was a time when the Democrats' only interest in "average" was in identifying it so it could be improved upoon. We never considered being satisfied with "average".
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  -It's time to put this myth to rest: Appealing to independents is the way to win elections. Laelth  Jan-16-10 10:46 AM   #0 
  - IF independents vote republican the dem loses  stray cat   Jan-16-10 10:51 AM   #1 
  - That's not what the math above says.  Laelth   Jan-16-10 10:52 AM   #2 
     - Your 'math' is pretty meaningless  muriel_volestrangler   Jan-16-10 11:39 AM   #21 
        - I see what you're saying, even if you are rude about it.  Laelth   Jan-16-10 11:48 AM   #24 
           - No, you'll notice my scenario had 60% Dems and 50% Republicans voting  muriel_volestrangler   Jan-16-10 11:56 AM   #27 
              - You're right, of course, with those figures.  Laelth   Jan-16-10 01:19 PM   #75 
  - What a stupid post.  Odin2005   Jan-16-10 10:52 AM   #3 
  - And your brilliance is equally remarkable, not to mention your charming personality.  Laelth   Jan-16-10 11:03 AM   #4 
     - One of the first things one learns in college political science is that...  Odin2005   Jan-16-10 11:07 AM   #5 
        - I am familiar with the argument.  Laelth   Jan-16-10 11:16 AM   #10 
        - Right. The goal then is to move the center to the left.  anonymous171   Jan-16-10 11:17 AM   #11 
        - You are correct in stating that the Republicans practice this tactic  mikekohr   Jan-16-10 12:06 PM   #35 
        - I am assuming that this post is directed at me, and so I will respond.  Laelth   Jan-16-10 12:48 PM   #67 
           - In your response we find common ground nt  mikekohr   Jan-17-10 09:35 AM   #93 
        - And, I could buy into that if we had the same "bell" that we had several decades ago.  Atticus   Jan-17-10 02:48 PM   #94 
           - I never said that we shouldn't try to move the bell to the Left.  Odin2005   Jan-17-10 03:02 PM   #96 
  - "Courting the center" has always been an excuse to pander to corporate interests  DJ13   Jan-16-10 11:08 AM   #6 
  - You nailed it.  Individualist   Jan-16-10 11:13 AM   #8 
  - Ding ding ding. eom  Hello_Kitty   Jan-16-10 11:19 AM   #12 
  - to win you have to get most of the voters  treestar   Jan-16-10 12:19 PM   #49 
  - Here's how Jefferson defined the party's base:  Laelth   Jan-16-10 06:30 PM   #92 
  - Well said. n/t  Laelth   Jan-16-10 02:42 PM   #81 
  - If you want to win one election and then lose three, you are right  Motown_Johnny   Jan-16-10 11:11 AM   #7 
  - What? I'm pretty sure Rove's strategies won two national elections for the GOP.  anonymous171   Jan-16-10 11:15 AM   #9 
  - With the help of election fraud using electronic voting machines and  RC   Jan-16-10 11:38 AM   #20 
  - So? He won, we lost. In domestic politics, the ends justify the means. nt  anonymous171   Jan-16-10 11:41 AM   #22 
     - Does "Nation of Laws..." mean anything to you?  RC   Jan-16-10 12:13 PM   #44 
        - I'm tired of liberals playing the political martyr.  anonymous171   Jan-16-10 12:40 PM   #65 
  - and we now have 60 Senators (kinda) and a huge majority in The House  Motown_Johnny   Jan-16-10 11:53 AM   #26 
     - Backlash that was generated by Bush's wars and the economy  anonymous171   Jan-16-10 11:56 AM   #30 
        - It is impossible to create a permanent majority of leftists, you need moderates  Motown_Johnny   Jan-16-10 12:03 PM   #33 
           - Actually I agree with you.  anonymous171   Jan-16-10 12:11 PM   #40 
              - nothing wrong with it, you just can't aim all your guns in one direction when you are surrounded  Motown_Johnny   Jan-16-10 12:20 PM   #50 
                 - There are ways to keep the moderates and the libs happy  anonymous171   Jan-16-10 12:26 PM   #56 
  - Sorry, but you fail. eom  Hello_Kitty   Jan-16-10 11:22 AM   #13 
  - any explanation for that comment?  Motown_Johnny   Jan-16-10 11:47 AM   #23 
  - Define what a moderate is, please.  Bluenorthwest   Jan-16-10 12:10 PM   #39 
     - Honestly?  Motown_Johnny   Jan-16-10 12:25 PM   #55 
  - The real MYTH is that there IS a unified Democratic base,  Richardo   Jan-16-10 11:24 AM   #14 
  - If you are right, you're saying the Democratic Party has no core principles.  Laelth   Jan-16-10 11:52 AM   #25 
     - No, what he is saying is that we belong to no organized political party, we are Democrats  Motown_Johnny   Jan-16-10 11:56 AM   #29 
        - I totally agree.  crispini   Jan-16-10 01:06 PM   #72 
  - Recommend  xchrom   Jan-16-10 11:25 AM   #15 
  - Cheers!  Laelth   Jan-16-10 03:24 PM   #88 
  - I think this is an oversimplification of electoral situations.  crispini   Jan-16-10 11:26 AM   #16 
  - Of course the math is different in every district.  Laelth   Jan-16-10 12:07 PM   #36 
     - Uh no.  crispini   Jan-16-10 01:03 PM   #71 
        - I admit that gerrymandering does happen.  Laelth   Jan-16-10 01:49 PM   #78 
           - You don't think the Obama election represented an "energized" base?  crispini   Jan-16-10 04:52 PM   #90 
  - They know it's not true. Obama didn't run as a centrist.  Hello_Kitty   Jan-16-10 11:26 AM   #17 
  - By your logic, Dennis Kucinich should be President right now because  Arkana   Jan-16-10 11:28 AM   #18 
  - You realize of course the winner of the Democratic convention is pretty much  RC   Jan-16-10 11:57 AM   #31 
     - I think I heard Hillary say that once  Motown_Johnny   Jan-16-10 11:59 AM   #32 
     - Seriously, that must be news to Hillary Clinton  Hippo_Tron   Jan-17-10 03:02 PM   #95 
     - Abdicate all responsibility for the people  treestar   Jan-16-10 12:23 PM   #54 
     - What else does the CIA tell you through the fillings in your teeth?  Arkana   Jan-16-10 01:49 PM   #79 
  - KR+4  inna   Jan-16-10 11:38 AM   #19 
  - I found your assumptions about independents off base and illogical.  noamnety   Jan-16-10 11:56 AM   #28 
  - I admit that I did not do a full profile of the psychological mindset of independent voters.  Laelth   Jan-16-10 12:12 PM   #41 
     - I saw a post on DU a day or two ago  noamnety   Jan-16-10 12:21 PM   #51 
        - That would be a better world.  Laelth   Jan-16-10 12:49 PM   #68 
  - We need independents, but independents are not the same thing as "centrists"  Bjorn Against   Jan-16-10 12:05 PM   #34 
  - You read my mind!  PassingFair   Jan-16-10 12:08 PM   #38 
  - Yes, but you are only about 2 or 3 % of the electorate, and there is no chance you will  Motown_Johnny   Jan-16-10 12:16 PM   #47 
     - Your last sentence says it all  treestar   Jan-16-10 12:22 PM   #52 
     - These "swing voters" you speak of are usually not too concerned about issues  Bjorn Against   Jan-16-10 12:28 PM   #59 
  - Bill Clinton won, Obama won, Kennedy won, Carter, Truman.. hmmmm how many purists have been elected?  Peacetrain   Jan-16-10 12:07 PM   #37 
  - Kennedy and Truman were way more leftist than Obama or Clinton.  anonymous171   Jan-16-10 12:12 PM   #42 
     - Do not mix up Bobbys later politics with Johns politics.. Kennedy and Truman were anything but left  Peacetrain   Jan-16-10 12:15 PM   #45 
        - Really?  anonymous171   Jan-16-10 12:23 PM   #53 
           - Really... HCR has been pushed by Teddy R and Nixon..  Peacetrain   Jan-16-10 12:27 PM   #58 
              - Yes, but back then they had an actual enemy.  anonymous171   Jan-16-10 12:32 PM   #61 
                 - You are making my point.. Truman and Kennedy both were anything but political purists..  Peacetrain   Jan-16-10 12:34 PM   #62 
                    - Yes, but they were far more leftist than Obama or Clinton  anonymous171   Jan-16-10 12:34 PM   #63 
                       - Nope..  Peacetrain   Jan-16-10 12:38 PM   #64 
                       - Exactly  Individualist   Jan-16-10 01:06 PM   #73 
  - The GOP is more homogenized. That is why that strategy works for them.  davsand   Jan-16-10 12:13 PM   #43 
  - I hear you, and I don't entirely disagree.  Laelth   Jan-16-10 12:26 PM   #57 
     - I honestly think voter select candidates based on how they perceive them.  davsand   Jan-16-10 01:31 PM   #76 
        - Thoughtful post. Thanks.  Laelth   Jan-16-10 02:48 PM   #83 
  - I believe there are left leaning independents and right leaning independents  elocs   Jan-16-10 12:15 PM   #46 
  - I agree, and I have argued something similar before.  Laelth   Jan-16-10 12:31 PM   #60 
     - Will Rogers: "I belong to no organized party. I am a Democrat."  elocs   Jan-16-10 12:54 PM   #70 
        - It does, but the Democratic Party will suffer if that doesn't change soon.  Laelth   Jan-16-10 03:13 PM   #86 
  - That would be in the campaign  treestar   Jan-16-10 12:17 PM   #48 
  - A good politician governs to win. He/she does stuff that his constituents like  anonymous171   Jan-16-10 12:47 PM   #66 
     - I don't see that  treestar   Jan-16-10 04:55 PM   #91 
  - Hogshit analysis. Obama won because he won the swing voters. What planet are you on.  RBInMaine   Jan-16-10 12:51 PM   #69 
  - You are such a pleasant person.  Laelth   Jan-16-10 01:08 PM   #74 
     - His manners aside,  Codeine   Jan-16-10 01:33 PM   #77 
        - Or, he's dead wrong.  Laelth   Jan-16-10 02:14 PM   #80 
  - By appealing to the right they lose the left. Actions have consequences. K&R  Tierra_y_Libertad   Jan-16-10 02:45 PM   #82 
  - Agreed. Good article on that very subject linked below.  Laelth   Jan-16-10 02:50 PM   #84 
     - Agreed.  Tierra_y_Libertad   Jan-16-10 02:52 PM   #85 
  - EXACTLY!  Demeter   Jan-16-10 03:16 PM   #87 
     - That makes zero sense.  ChimpersMcSmirkers   Jan-16-10 04:01 PM   #89 

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