okie
(158 posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Sat Jan-16-10 07:14 PM
Response to Reply #82 |
|
No serious person has claimed Haiti's troubles can be attributed entirely to American Empire. France, for example, threatened invasion if the Haitians did not compensate them for the cost of Haiti's freedom. The country was locked into crippling debt from the time of the original devil's pact.
I also disagree with the idea that Haiti has been largely self governing since the 2004 coup. I think very little governing has been going on at all. Rene Preval may be the elected president, but he has no real influence. What's more, the Fanmi Lavalas party has been crushed with backing of UN "peacekeepers", and the few mild reforms won during Aristide's tenure have been rolled back. Lavalas members have been persecuted and even killed. And the UN force has done little to stop the criminals from carrying out these acts because they are collaborators. To talk of self governance when once-powerful political movements are violently suppressed makes no sense at all.
As for Haiti's future, I agree that things look quite bleak. One of the reasons Aristide was toppled was because he had the temerity to demand reparations from France. Wouldn't be a bad start, far as I'm concerned. But real freedom for Haitians will come when the exploitative structures of the global economy are dismantled. When countries like Haiti are not seen as sources for cheap labor and testing grounds for neoliberal structural adjustment. I don't wish to sound glib here, or like I'm spouting platitudes. These changes are obviously very big and complicated (involving many more players than the US and Haiti), and difficult to seriously address in short paragraphs on internet forums. But it would be wrong to look to the 1920's for answers here.
|
| -Haiti as the 51st state. |
Old and In the Way |
Jan-15-10 07:50 PM |
#0 |
-
Maybe they don't want to be a state. We can't just take somebody else's country. |
The Velveteen Ocelot |
Jan-15-10 07:52 PM |
#1 |
 -
Gee, I did state that it would have to be a democratic referendum. |
Old and In the Way |
Jan-15-10 07:54 PM |
#6 |
-
This whole premise disturbs me. Not just OP's question but some of the arrogant & racist responses |
Leopolds Ghost |
Jan-16-10 08:31 AM |
#78 |
-
Again I ask, why the only objection people have is "they're too backward" to conquer & assimilate? |
Leopolds Ghost |
Jan-16-10 10:24 AM |
#86 |
-
Why not make Iraq the 52nd state? |
Leopolds Ghost |
Jan-16-10 10:30 AM |
#89 |
-
why stop at haiti, why not the DR, or costa rica, or mexico, |
vadawg |
Jan-15-10 07:52 PM |
#2 |
 -
+1 We can't fix everything for everyone |
Luciferous |
Jan-15-10 09:29 PM |
#61 |
-
What would it hurt to offer them the choice? |
TheWraith |
Jan-15-10 07:53 PM |
#3 |
-
As well intentioned as this is, I am betting they would say NO |
nadinbrzezinski |
Jan-15-10 07:53 PM |
#4 |
 -
I'm betting yes. |
Old and In the Way |
Jan-15-10 07:59 PM |
#10 |
-
question is they might vote yes, but would the States vote yes |
vadawg |
Jan-15-10 08:01 PM |
#15 |
 -
Fair question...but I'm asking DUer's what they think. |
Old and In the Way |
Jan-15-10 08:05 PM |
#16 |
-
You underestimate |
nadinbrzezinski |
Jan-15-10 08:06 PM |
#18 |
 -
Perhaps, but I'll take your response as a no. |
Old and In the Way |
Jan-15-10 08:22 PM |
#32 |
-
It smacks of imperialism. |
IntravenousDemilo |
Jan-15-10 08:19 PM |
#29 |
-
We did practically cause their poverty in recent years. We owe them help at the very least. |
Jennicut |
Jan-15-10 07:54 PM |
# |
-
No they are a basket case. Aid and self respect first. Why has PR gone its own way? |
sharesunited |
Jan-15-10 07:54 PM |
#5 |
-
It would be the 53rd state, not 51st. |
provis99 |
Jan-15-10 07:54 PM |
#7 |
 -
When did Canada become an American state??? |
HeresyLives |
Jan-15-10 08:00 PM |
#11 |
 -
Canada 51st state? You are such ignorant demented imbecile |
BunkerHill24 |
Jan-15-10 08:06 PM |
#19 |
  -
I assume he's joking. |
HeresyLives |
Jan-15-10 08:11 PM |
#21 |
   -
lol...That was something out off Freeper-World..wasn't it? |
BunkerHill24 |
Jan-15-10 08:17 PM |
#27 |
  -
LOL certainly made me choke on my coffee! /nt |
HeresyLives |
Jan-15-10 08:19 PM |
#30 |
  -
If Stephen Harper had his way, I'm sure that would almost be likely... |
IntravenousDemilo |
Jan-15-10 08:29 PM |
#35 |
   -
Steven Harper enjoys minority government...he's on a leash |
BunkerHill24 |
Jan-15-10 08:42 PM |
#44 |
  -
Yes, I know, I live in Canada. Harper doesn't enjoy minority government that much. |
IntravenousDemilo |
Jan-16-10 07:37 AM |
#74 |
  -
What he really means is that we support them more than we should. |
Xenotime |
Jan-16-10 08:45 AM |
#79 |
 -
Sarah Palin couldn't have made a dumber remark. |
aquart |
Jan-15-10 08:16 PM |
#26 |
 -
Some Canadians have also made that assertion |
Canuckistanian |
Jan-15-10 08:41 PM |
#42 |
-
I Thought Puerto Rico Was Next... Or Was It Washington D.C. ??? |
WillyT |
Jan-15-10 07:55 PM |
#8 |
 -
Guam! |
virgogal |
Jan-15-10 08:38 PM |
#39 |
-
Have you had a look at Puerto Rico recently |
malaise |
Jan-15-10 07:55 PM |
#9 |
 -
So, no vote for letting them decide? |
Old and In the Way |
Jan-15-10 08:01 PM |
#14 |
-
As long as it's a Caribbean island, I can live with Puerto Rico or Haiti. Or Cuber for that matter. |
timeforpeace |
Jan-15-10 08:00 PM |
#12 |
-
Haiti is helluva closer than Israel ...so why not 51st state status? |
BunkerHill24 |
Jan-15-10 08:00 PM |
#13 |
-
I know alot of people who want green cards or visas |
stray cat |
Jan-15-10 08:05 PM |
#17 |
 -
Do we need H1 visa's to move between states? |
Old and In the Way |
Jan-15-10 08:13 PM |
#23 |
-
BAD |
Texasgal |
Jan-15-10 08:10 PM |
#20 |
 -
So, no referendum to let them decide, right? |
Old and In the Way |
Jan-15-10 08:15 PM |
#25 |
  -
Maybe.. |
Texasgal |
Jan-15-10 08:19 PM |
#31 |
   -
Interesting point. |
Old and In the Way |
Jan-15-10 08:29 PM |
#36 |
  -
I don't have a poll |
Texasgal |
Jan-15-10 08:37 PM |
#38 |
   -
Well, lets take a poll to see if Native Americans want out of the Union. |
Old and In the Way |
Jan-15-10 08:56 PM |
#54 |
  -
we are talking about Hawaii |
Texasgal |
Jan-15-10 09:04 PM |
#56 |
  -
It would if the Natives had a say....but Hawaii Natives did not have a say... |
winyanstaz |
Jan-15-10 11:31 PM |
#71 |
  -
49th? |
Neecy |
Jan-16-10 10:29 AM |
#88 |
  -
OK, i'll bite |
unabelladonna |
Jan-15-10 08:42 PM |
#45 |
 -
The idea of 51st is of economic and preferential treatment, that's all. |
BunkerHill24 |
Jan-15-10 08:35 PM |
#37 |
-
This idea has bad news written all over. This is a crisis that we don't want to inherit. nt |
LLStarks |
Jan-15-10 08:12 PM |
#22 |
-
How arrogant. |
aquart |
Jan-15-10 08:15 PM |
#24 |
 -
hehehe |
Old and In the Way |
Jan-15-10 08:19 PM |
#28 |
-
I would support it -- AND... |
Mike Nelson |
Jan-15-10 08:22 PM |
#33 |
-
what would that accomplish |
unabelladonna |
Jan-15-10 08:25 PM |
#34 |
 -
Well, a lot actually. |
Old and In the Way |
Jan-15-10 08:41 PM |
#43 |
-
okay then what, do we pick another country and make them the 52nd state |
vadawg |
Jan-15-10 08:50 PM |
#48 |
 -
Don't know..depends on the circumstances. |
Old and In the Way |
Jan-15-10 09:12 PM |
#58 |
-
at the risk of being called every name in the book |
unabelladonna |
Jan-15-10 08:50 PM |
#49 |
-
Good point.... |
Old and In the Way |
Jan-15-10 09:38 PM |
#63 |
-
Your intentions are noble, but naive. |
Harry Monroe |
Jan-15-10 08:39 PM |
#40 |
 -
True that! |
Old and In the Way |
Jan-15-10 08:46 PM |
#47 |
-
nothing of the sort, i think the point you seem to be missing is why should they get a vote |
vadawg |
Jan-15-10 08:54 PM |
#53 |
 -
I need to research the mechanism for bringing new states into the union. |
Old and In the Way |
Jan-15-10 11:51 PM |
#72 |
-
A Couple Of Thoughts... |
KharmaTrain |
Jan-16-10 05:24 PM |
#97 |
-
Who says the US would want it? |
Ter |
Jan-15-10 08:39 PM |
#41 |
-
The British just recently took back Turks and Caicos |
HipChick |
Jan-15-10 08:42 PM |
#46 |
 -
yup and i seem to remember the feeling on DU was that it was colonialism again |
vadawg |
Jan-15-10 08:52 PM |
#51 |
-
Well, Haiti IS flat broke and in horrendous debt |
notesdev |
Jan-15-10 08:52 PM |
#50 |
-
I thought Cancun and Punta Cana were the 51st and 52nd states. |
kwassa |
Jan-15-10 08:53 PM |
#52 |
 -
Only the strategically important nude beaches. nt |
Robb |
Jan-15-10 09:06 PM |
#57 |
-
Why? |
Truthiness Inspector |
Jan-15-10 08:57 PM |
#55 |
-
Why would the States want to bring them into the Union? |
jdp349 |
Jan-15-10 09:12 PM |
#59 |
 -
It would create jobs in the mainland US |
XemaSab |
Jan-15-10 09:26 PM |
#60 |
-
The Federal government would have to pay for it |
jdp349 |
Jan-15-10 09:40 PM |
#64 |
-
No problem...cut defense spending by 20% |
Old and In the Way |
Jan-15-10 11:18 PM |
#69 |
-
But we know that won't happen |
jdp349 |
Jan-16-10 09:38 AM |
#80 |
-
OK, so the general consensus here is' 'no fucking way' |
Old and In the Way |
Jan-15-10 09:30 PM |
#62 |
-
No merit whatsoever. Haiti is a free country. And besides, we have |
kestrel91316 |
Jan-15-10 09:43 PM |
#65 |
 -
Ah, but you are speaking for the Haitians when you decide that they don't want |
Old and In the Way |
Jan-15-10 11:16 PM |
#68 |
  -
How much do you know about Haitian history, or Haitian feelings toward US intervention? |
Leopolds Ghost |
Jan-16-10 10:33 AM |
#91 |
 -
So Let The Haitians Vote On It |
Vogon_Glory |
Jan-16-10 10:23 AM |
#84 |
 -
So Let The Haitians Vote On It |
Vogon_Glory |
Jan-16-10 10:23 AM |
#85 |
-
They want to be their own country. |
ddeclue |
Jan-15-10 09:47 PM |
#66 |
 -
Hard to argue with that fact. |
Old and In the Way |
Jan-15-10 11:24 PM |
#70 |
-
Just every Haitian I've ever met while living in Florida. |
ddeclue |
Jan-16-10 02:40 PM |
#95 |
-
And members here wonder why... |
-..__... |
Jan-15-10 10:18 PM |
#67 |
-
At the Risk of Being Offensive |
Vogon_Glory |
Jan-16-10 07:17 AM |
#73 |
 -
Do you believe Haiti was "self governing" in any meaningful sense? |
okie |
Jan-16-10 07:41 AM |
#76 |
-
No, I Don't Believe that Haiti Was Self-Governing--And Here's Why |
Vogon_Glory |
Jan-16-10 10:16 AM |
#82 |
-
tough questions |
okie |
Jan-16-10 07:14 PM |
#98 |
-
Doesn't work that way. |
okie |
Jan-16-10 07:39 AM |
#75 |
-
I would say yes if it meant we'd see... |
pipi_k |
Jan-16-10 08:12 AM |
#77 |
-
How about Somalia next? |
Imajika |
Jan-16-10 09:46 AM |
#81 |
 -
Somalia too culturally dissimilar, so I'd vote no. n/t |
Vogon_Glory |
Jan-16-10 10:25 AM |
#87 |
-
Statehood would be good for Haiti. |
Octafish |
Jan-16-10 10:20 AM |
#83 |
 -
Think of The 2012 Campaign Opportunities! |
Vogon_Glory |
Jan-16-10 10:30 AM |
#90 |
-
Wal-Mart could force the minimum wage even lower and hire them as employees. |
hunter |
Jan-16-10 10:35 AM |
#92 |
 -
Referendum Results: "I for one welcome our new US overlords." BTW isn't Banda Aceh the 51st state? |
Leopolds Ghost |
Jan-16-10 10:39 AM |
#93 |
-
It's an interesting idea... |
MellowDem |
Jan-16-10 11:36 AM |
#94 |
-
I wrote a blog advocating this |
donritchie |
Jan-16-10 05:14 PM |
#96 |
-
Haitians beat Napoleon's army and threw off slavery to become an INDEPENDENT NATION |
Matariki |
Jan-16-10 07:36 PM |
#99 |