Reply #72: There's several commonalities in those situations that might not be in others -

[haele]

In both your situations, it seems the gunman either wasn't suicidal or was getting tired of his "vengeance" or what other sociopathic mental state he was in. Otherwise, just getting the drop on the gunman would not have stopped him; he would have turned and begun shooting - either killing the confronters or getting everyone involved with a gun battle. The gunman was willing to give up without further fight.

The other commonality is that it seems that the others with guns were confident enough to just show and not shoot - which rather goes against almost everything I was taught when I was being trained for my alternate duty as Shore Patrol/Security/Boarding Party member. If you pull it, be prepared to shoot - and shoot for the largest mass.

I have been in a training situation with some other supposedly trained people where two of our small group of six pulled their guns in a situation we weren't "supposed to" and then panicked, shooting paint pellets (luckily) at everything that moved. Including me - positioned on flank and retreating to get out of the way - and our point man who got hit in the back. Pellets hurt at close range; I was bruised in the shoulder near my neck, right boob, and hip - and probably would have been killed if they were using real bullets. Our trainer, a SWAT veteran, told us that once someone shoots at you, it's very hard - for anyone - to fight the urge to return fire as quickly and as scattershot as you can. Especially if you don't know exactly where the bullet came from.

Haele