NutmegYankee
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Sun Jan-03-10 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #115 |
| 120. Will you recognize others will disagree, and still be moral? |
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A father may want to see his own child grow up and choose to defend his life. Defense of your life is a natural response.
|
| -Justify killing a child. |
asdjrocky |
Jan-03-10 01:35 PM |
#0 |
 -
They are all "Al Qeada Kids", didn't you know? (n/t) |
whatchamacallit |
Jan-03-10 01:37 PM |
#1 |
| -
What are Hitler Youth |
FreakinDJ |
Jan-03-10 01:37 PM |
#2 |
 -
Are they victims or targets? |
tekisui |
Jan-03-10 01:38 PM |
#4 |
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both possibly |
FreakinDJ |
Jan-03-10 01:39 PM |
#6 |
| -
If someone drops a bomb on a population known to have children, |
tekisui |
Jan-03-10 01:41 PM |
#9 |
| -
+1 but they have a great euphemism for it |
malaise |
Jan-03-10 01:45 PM |
#17 |
| -
I'm waiting for a more conclusive report |
FreakinDJ |
Jan-03-10 02:23 PM |
#76 |
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me too. but if the handcuffed in a room business is true |
seeinfweggos |
Jan-03-10 03:14 PM |
#119 |
| -
Deleted message |
Name removed |
Jan-03-10 01:39 PM |
#5 |
| -
Merely Black and White - no grey area |
FreakinDJ |
Jan-03-10 01:58 PM |
#38 |
| -
Funny, if we didn't do the things we do, |
asdjrocky |
Jan-03-10 02:02 PM |
#45 |
| -
Those pictures were of Palestinian Children |
FreakinDJ |
Jan-03-10 02:05 PM |
#49 |
| -
I know who the children are. |
asdjrocky |
Jan-03-10 02:09 PM |
#53 |
| -
You started this Flame Bait - not me |
FreakinDJ |
Jan-03-10 02:14 PM |
#62 |
| -
Saying killing children is wrong is flame bait? |
asdjrocky |
Jan-03-10 02:18 PM |
#69 |
| -
You disagree it envokes an Emotional Response? |
FreakinDJ |
Jan-03-10 02:31 PM |
#86 |
| -
This is Afghanistan. |
mmonk |
Jan-03-10 02:37 PM |
#92 |
| -
Are the children no less precious |
FreakinDJ |
Jan-03-10 02:41 PM |
#94 |
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You have inserted a different situation. |
mmonk |
Jan-03-10 02:49 PM |
#99 |
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Are the children any less DEAD - For you they don't count ???? |
FreakinDJ |
Jan-03-10 03:05 PM |
#113 |
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No, you are. I only entered this thread because of what you were doing. |
mmonk |
Jan-03-10 03:11 PM |
#117 |
| -
were the kids that died recently wearing bombs? |
fascisthunter |
Jan-04-10 12:18 PM |
#188 |
| -
One of the most pathetic things I have read on DU is |
tekisui |
Jan-03-10 01:37 PM |
#3 |
| -
It makes you sad. |
asdjrocky |
Jan-03-10 01:40 PM |
#7 |
| -
They said WHAT!?! |
Odin2005 |
Jan-03-10 01:44 PM |
#15 |
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There are a handful running around claiming that |
tekisui |
Jan-03-10 01:46 PM |
#20 |
| -
Deleted message |
Name removed |
Jan-03-10 01:53 PM |
#28 |
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Dupe. |
tekisui |
Jan-03-10 02:00 PM |
#41 |
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As am I. But, you know what? I am not the Taliban. |
tekisui |
Jan-03-10 02:00 PM |
#42 |
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You said WHAT!?! |
Electric Monk |
Jan-03-10 01:53 PM |
#31 |
| -
Have a look at the responses |
varelse |
Jan-03-10 06:00 PM |
#158 |
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While I agree with that under most circumstances |
Warpy |
Jan-03-10 04:33 PM |
#149 |
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Amen Warpy. |
lastliberalintexas |
Jan-03-10 10:39 PM |
#177 |
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Warpy nails it. |
11 Bravo |
Jan-04-10 01:25 PM |
#191 |
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Cause if you don't kill em they grow up to be adults |
lunatica |
Jan-03-10 01:41 PM |
#8 |
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The majority of the reason that "you'd have to kill them anyway" IS that you are killing them in the |
patrice |
Jan-03-10 01:50 PM |
#25 |
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There is NO justification for killing children! n/t |
etherealtruth |
Jan-03-10 01:42 PM |
#10 |
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...unless they're out to kill more children |
PerpetuallyDazed |
Jan-04-10 10:57 AM |
#184 |
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You are correct |
etherealtruth |
Jan-04-10 04:59 PM |
#192 |
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First we need to know what the definition of a child is |
bluestateguy |
Jan-03-10 01:42 PM |
#11 |
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What is a child? |
asdjrocky |
Jan-03-10 01:43 PM |
#13 |
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Big debate in another thread |
proud2BlibKansan |
Jan-03-10 02:01 PM |
#43 |
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It's something that needs to be unpacked before we can have that debate |
bluestateguy |
Jan-03-10 02:15 PM |
#64 |
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Deleted message |
Name removed |
Jan-03-10 02:30 PM |
#85 |
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There are lots of different definitions it helps to be specific. It's okay if you don't know. |
Fire_Medic_Dave |
Jan-03-10 06:57 PM |
#171 |
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Deleted sub-thread |
Name removed |
Jan-03-10 01:42 PM |
#12 |
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A justification would be superiority given to a woman's dominion over her body. |
sharesunited |
Jan-03-10 01:44 PM |
#14 |
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I'm talking about living breathing children. |
asdjrocky |
Jan-03-10 01:45 PM |
#18 |
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That's not a justification. It's a corelation. Surely you do not suggest 2 wrongs make a right. |
patrice |
Jan-03-10 01:55 PM |
#33 |
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What was the second wrong? Roe treats it as a balancing of interests. |
sharesunited |
Jan-03-10 02:13 PM |
#61 |
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Pardon, I thought we were getting, "If abortion is okay. Killing children in foreign countries is ok |
patrice |
Jan-03-10 02:22 PM |
#73 |
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AND at least in re abortion, the woman takes the moral consequences of her act onto her own |
patrice |
Jan-03-10 01:59 PM |
#39 |
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We're also talking about people being in OTHER PEOPLE'S countries here. |
patrice |
Jan-03-10 02:08 PM |
#52 |
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Not necessarily true |
ProgressiveProfessor |
Jan-03-10 03:54 PM |
#134 |
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I'll bite. |
Robb |
Jan-03-10 01:44 PM |
#16 |
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I got nothin' nt |
rrneck |
Jan-03-10 01:45 PM |
#19 |
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How about if they are pointing an AK-47 or rpg-7 at you? |
independentpiney |
Jan-03-10 01:46 PM |
#21 |
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If a child is pointing a gun at me, |
asdjrocky |
Jan-03-10 01:47 PM |
#22 |
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and before you figured that out, you would be dead |
independentpiney |
Jan-03-10 01:51 PM |
#26 |
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I can think and defend myself at the same time. |
asdjrocky |
Jan-03-10 01:54 PM |
#32 |
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You could defend yourself from a burst of automatic fire while pondering |
independentpiney |
Jan-03-10 02:13 PM |
#60 |
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Ask yourself that after you shoot him |
jmowreader |
Jan-03-10 02:22 PM |
# |
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What if the child has a bomb strapped to him/herself? eom |
Hello_Kitty |
Jan-03-10 02:48 PM |
#98 |
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Wrong. You have to ask yourself how you're going to stay alive in the next 5 seconds. |
anigbrowl |
Jan-03-10 11:23 PM |
#180 |
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You're in HER country and SHE is doing what you would do if the tables were turned. |
patrice |
Jan-03-10 02:15 PM |
#65 |
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So that means I should just accept being killed myself? |
independentpiney |
Jan-03-10 02:26 PM |
#79 |
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You said yes to that when you FREELY assented to put yourself in that situation IN THEIR COUNTRY |
patrice |
Jan-03-10 02:35 PM |
#89 |
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I haven't freely assented to put myself in anyones country |
independentpiney |
Jan-03-10 02:55 PM |
#102 |
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I am saying that when civilians, more or less freely, assent to abdicate their own autonymy, moral |
patrice |
Jan-03-10 03:06 PM |
#114 |
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I agree with you, but that has nothing to do with the question that was asked |
independentpiney |
Jan-03-10 03:33 PM |
#126 |
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Thank you for pointing out once again... |
Cessna Invesco Palin |
Jan-03-10 04:38 PM |
#150 |
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Who said that child soldier isn't american? |
TCJ70 |
Jan-04-10 12:52 PM |
#190 |
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Aye! There's the rub! |
The Midway Rebel |
Jan-03-10 02:16 PM |
#67 |
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+1. Self-defense, or the defense of others... |
Orsino |
Jan-04-10 11:14 AM |
#186 |
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It was rationalized in Viet Nam too. |
Cleita |
Jan-03-10 01:47 PM |
#23 |
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yep, as in Mai Lai |
G_j |
Jan-03-10 02:07 PM |
#51 |
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first, define 'child' |
hfojvt |
Jan-03-10 01:49 PM |
#24 |
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Sure. |
asdjrocky |
Jan-03-10 01:52 PM |
#27 |
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Israel does it all the time. |
berni_mccoy |
Jan-03-10 01:53 PM |
#29 |
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Yes they do. |
asdjrocky |
Jan-03-10 01:57 PM |
#36 |
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And, we help them to. |
Tierra_y_Libertad |
Jan-03-10 01:58 PM |
#37 |
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Yes we do. |
asdjrocky |
Jan-03-10 01:59 PM |
#40 |
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Sadly true. |
berni_mccoy |
Jan-03-10 02:01 PM |
#44 |
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There is no justification for killing a child. None. Period. |
polly7 |
Jan-03-10 01:53 PM |
#30 |
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What if a 17 year old attacks you with a weapon? A 12 year old? nt |
kelly1mm |
Jan-03-10 02:36 PM |
#91 |
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I guess I'd be dead. |
polly7 |
Jan-03-10 02:41 PM |
#95 |
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Where are you? What/Who caused the conflict? What is the goal? Is the goal possible/probable? |
patrice |
Jan-03-10 02:49 PM |
#100 |
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The post I replied to had no reservations. It said |
kelly1mm |
Jan-03-10 02:57 PM |
#105 |
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How about in Wash DC where you live? |
ProgressiveProfessor |
Jan-03-10 02:57 PM |
#106 |
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Not enough information. |
patrice |
Jan-03-10 03:09 PM |
#116 |
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Well at least you can't claim the "invaders" meme |
ProgressiveProfessor |
Jan-03-10 03:52 PM |
#131 |
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You were invaded; you did what you had to do. Re the larger domestic context see my post #134 below |
patrice |
Jan-03-10 04:01 PM |
#142 |
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You had a CHOICE to be there. That 12-17 year old DIDN'T! |
patrice |
Jan-03-10 02:52 PM |
#101 |
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Look at a domestic context, gangs in the inner city |
ProgressiveProfessor |
Jan-03-10 02:58 PM |
#108 |
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What are you talking about? The OP and the comment I responded |
kelly1mm |
Jan-03-10 03:00 PM |
#112 |
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I will clarify my comment, if that's what you're referring to as one |
polly7 |
Jan-03-10 03:09 PM |
#115 |
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Will you recognize others will disagree, and still be moral? |
NutmegYankee |
Jan-03-10 03:14 PM |
#120 |
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Of course it's a natural response, I just said, that having lost |
polly7 |
Jan-03-10 03:25 PM |
#123 |
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Explain. |
NutmegYankee |
Jan-03-10 03:11 PM |
#118 |
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Not as much of a choice as all of the supposed adults who could have done a myriad |
patrice |
Jan-03-10 03:37 PM |
#127 |
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But a choice is only good if you know about it. |
NutmegYankee |
Jan-03-10 03:48 PM |
#129 |
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Oh, I'm not denying that. I just want ALL of us to think about it differently. |
patrice |
Jan-03-10 03:58 PM |
#138 |
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Understood. This 14 year-old would have been well served by someone getting them out of a gang. |
NutmegYankee |
Jan-03-10 04:04 PM |
#143 |
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And the "choices" we are currently processing in response to those gangs are WAY too much |
patrice |
Jan-03-10 04:16 PM |
#146 |
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You do not have enough information to make that assumption |
ProgressiveProfessor |
Jan-03-10 03:54 PM |
#133 |
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In the domestic context, I am saying that the choices of an adult are, or should be, qualitatively |
patrice |
Jan-03-10 04:22 PM |
#147 |
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Is there justification for killing anyone? |
PerpetuallyDazed |
Jan-04-10 11:02 AM |
#185 |
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One word |
thecrow |
Jan-03-10 01:56 PM |
#34 |
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Well, if you're gonna bring time travel into this.... |
Sebastian Doyle |
Jan-03-10 02:10 PM |
#55 |
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Go back a little further |
jmowreader |
Jan-03-10 02:24 PM |
#77 |
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Well maybe if his mom had had a choice back in that time...... |
winyanstaz |
Jan-03-10 04:01 PM |
#141 |
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Samuel Bush's mom was rich. Find a new idea. |
jmowreader |
Jan-03-10 04:58 PM |
#155 |
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Cuz the tykes are about to invade Toledo and force your mama to wear a burqa. |
Tierra_y_Libertad |
Jan-03-10 01:56 PM |
#35 |
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Only in self-defense |
slackmaster |
Jan-03-10 02:02 PM |
#46 |
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It's fun !! |
LooseWilly |
Jan-03-10 02:02 PM |
#47 |
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Both of the battles you mentioned there at the end were both proven |
asdjrocky |
Jan-03-10 02:05 PM |
#48 |
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Both proven unnecessary, maybe. But proven unjustified? Or merely so argued? |
LooseWilly |
Jan-03-10 05:16 PM |
#156 |
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OMG! You said something I agree with!! |
patrice |
Jan-03-10 03:16 PM |
#121 |
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Sophistry aside |
Goldstein1984 |
Jan-03-10 02:06 PM |
#50 |
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+1 ~ |
patrice |
Jan-03-10 02:10 PM |
#54 |
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+1 |
leftstreet |
Jan-03-10 02:11 PM |
#57 |
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Sometimes simple is best. |
asdjrocky |
Jan-03-10 02:12 PM |
#58 |
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Thanks for you OP |
Goldstein1984 |
Jan-03-10 02:18 PM |
#68 |
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I'll take the challenge - |
NutmegYankee |
Jan-03-10 02:11 PM |
#56 |
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How about if they are handcuffed and unarmed? |
asdjrocky |
Jan-03-10 02:15 PM |
#66 |
| -
Obviously not in that case. It's never ok, even for POWs |
NutmegYankee |
Jan-03-10 02:20 PM |
#71 |
| -
Deleted message |
Name removed |
Jan-03-10 02:36 PM |
#90 |
| -
I cannot. |
Jamastiene |
Jan-03-10 02:12 PM |
#59 |
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Humans should not kill other humans. |
Lost-in-FL |
Jan-03-10 02:15 PM |
#63 |
| -
I've got a perfect situation |
jmowreader |
Jan-03-10 02:19 PM |
#70 |
| -
Good point. |
asdjrocky |
Jan-03-10 02:21 PM |
#72 |
| -
Deleted message |
Name removed |
Jan-03-10 02:23 PM |
#75 |
| -
I think it's okay to defend yourself. |
asdjrocky |
Jan-03-10 02:25 PM |
#78 |
| -
Deleted message |
Name removed |
Jan-03-10 02:28 PM |
#81 |
| -
Yes. Just like if your family is starving, you can steel food. |
asdjrocky |
Jan-03-10 02:30 PM |
#84 |
| -
Deleted message |
Name removed |
Jan-03-10 02:33 PM |
#87 |
| -
Which wasn't your question |
dems_rightnow |
Jan-03-10 02:28 PM |
#82 |
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That's the one all right |
dems_rightnow |
Jan-03-10 02:26 PM |
#80 |
| -
Deleted message |
Name removed |
Jan-03-10 02:22 PM |
#74 |
| -
Put one that misbehaves next to me at a nice restaurant and we'll see. |
ThomWV |
Jan-03-10 02:29 PM |
#83 |
| -
Not under any circumstances...except perhaps |
alphafemale |
Jan-03-10 02:33 PM |
#88 |
| -
Oooh |
dems_rightnow |
Jan-03-10 02:40 PM |
#93 |
| -
Self defense. eom |
Hello_Kitty |
Jan-03-10 02:42 PM |
#96 |
| -
Which, of course, applies to them too, because you ARE IN THEIR COUNTRY. |
patrice |
Jan-03-10 02:55 PM |
#103 |
| -
I'm still not going to let them kill me. Sorry. |
Hello_Kitty |
Jan-03-10 02:57 PM |
#107 |
| -
That was not part of the OP |
ProgressiveProfessor |
Jan-03-10 03:00 PM |
#111 |
| -
Pretty much the only justification out there. nt |
anonymous171 |
Jan-03-10 03:32 PM |
#125 |
| -
Exactly. There is no good reason for taking innocent life. |
Octafish |
Jan-03-10 02:45 PM |
#97 |
| -
Thank you. |
asdjrocky |
Jan-03-10 02:58 PM |
#109 |
| -
First define what you mean by child, you have danced around it so far. Also define circumstances |
ProgressiveProfessor |
Jan-03-10 02:55 PM |
#104 |
| -
I agree with you completely. nt |
Crabby Appleton |
Jan-03-10 03:38 PM |
#128 |
| -
If they have a gun and intend to kill you and are shooting at you |
stray cat |
Jan-03-10 03:00 PM |
#110 |
| -
Unless you kill everyone, killing just causes killing. Whatever you think you're going to do with it |
patrice |
Jan-03-10 03:21 PM |
#122 |
| -
Brings back memories of what some people said in the aftermath of the My Lai massacre |
Lydia Leftcoast |
Jan-03-10 03:26 PM |
#124 |
| -
Almost any reponse on this thread has revolved around self-defense. |
NutmegYankee |
Jan-03-10 03:55 PM |
#135 |
| -
The OP strongly inferred there was never justification, yet clearly there is. BTDT |
ProgressiveProfessor |
Jan-03-10 03:57 PM |
#137 |
| -
I know. He dared fellow DUers to justify it in ANY case, and it can be. |
NutmegYankee |
Jan-03-10 03:59 PM |
#140 |
| -
They keyed my car. |
HiFructosePronSyrup |
Jan-03-10 03:49 PM |
#130 |
| -
I can't. nt |
LWolf |
Jan-03-10 03:53 PM |
#132 |
| -
Self Defense would seem a legitimate reason. |
ProgressiveProfessor |
Jan-03-10 03:58 PM |
#139 |
| -
I guess I don't really consider |
LWolf |
Jan-03-10 04:08 PM |
#144 |
| -
The OP really set this up as flame bait |
ProgressiveProfessor |
Jan-03-10 05:32 PM |
#157 |
| -
Who said it was? |
treestar |
Jan-03-10 03:56 PM |
#136 |
| -
someone really 'mavericky' |
Electric Monk |
Jan-03-10 04:14 PM |
#145 |
| -
I'm not attacking anyone. |
asdjrocky |
Jan-03-10 04:26 PM |
#148 |
| -
No |
treestar |
Jan-03-10 09:20 PM |
#175 |
| -
If they point a weapon at me and I don't have a choice, then yes. |
Zynx |
Jan-03-10 04:45 PM |
#151 |
| -
If the kid was named Damien Thorn, justified. n/t |
miyazaki |
Jan-03-10 04:49 PM |
#152 |
| -
Snore too loud or steal my last beer. |
LostInAnomie |
Jan-03-10 04:52 PM |
#153 |
| -
No one is safe |
Fla_Democrat |
Jan-03-10 07:03 PM |
#172 |
| -
ok |
seeinfweggos |
Jan-03-10 04:53 PM |
#154 |
| -
It cannot be done |
varelse |
Jan-03-10 06:05 PM |
#159 |
| -
It can be done. Self-defense. |
NutmegYankee |
Jan-03-10 06:18 PM |
#160 |
| -
Yes, I have read the thread |
varelse |
Jan-03-10 06:39 PM |
#164 |
| -
The OP never mentioned the military. |
NutmegYankee |
Jan-03-10 06:53 PM |
#168 |
| -
Correct, the OP challenged us to justify the killing of children, not the alleged war crime |
varelse |
Jan-03-10 07:14 PM |
#173 |
| -
Thanks, and sorry you got pulled into this. |
asdjrocky |
Jan-03-10 11:44 PM |
#181 |
| -
Somehow, I am not surprised by the attitudes I see on this thread. |
Jamastiene |
Jan-03-10 06:21 PM |
#161 |
| -
That's a very odd stance for us to take |
varelse |
Jan-03-10 06:25 PM |
#162 |
| -
I am for ratifying the treaty. |
Jamastiene |
Jan-03-10 06:28 PM |
#163 |
| -
We're not exactly in good company, either. |
flvegan |
Jan-03-10 06:51 PM |
#167 |
| -
like not signing the landmine treaty |
G_j |
Jan-03-10 11:48 PM |
#182 |
| -
What attitudes? And from whom? |
NutmegYankee |
Jan-03-10 06:56 PM |
#170 |
| -
i suppose that all depends on your definition of a child. |
caitxrawks |
Jan-03-10 06:43 PM |
#165 |
| -
If my life or the life of others was in danger from said child, then yes. |
proteus_lives |
Jan-03-10 06:46 PM |
#166 |
| -
okay. if they are trying to kill you. otherwise not so much. |
dionysus |
Jan-03-10 06:56 PM |
#169 |
| -
Rhoda Penmark? |
pipi_k |
Jan-03-10 07:16 PM |
#174 |
| -
Haven't read the thread, so I don't know if this has been mentioned |
lastliberalintexas |
Jan-03-10 10:36 PM |
#176 |
| -
Good points! |
PerpetuallyDazed |
Jan-06-10 09:48 AM |
#193 |
| -
I'm a teacher. |
JackDragna |
Jan-03-10 11:01 PM |
#178 |
| -
I Have The Solution |
ChoppinBroccoli |
Jan-03-10 11:06 PM |
#179 |
| -
Yep, that Islamist terrorist who blew up that crowd in Pakistan a few days ago on purpose-- |
smalll |
Jan-03-10 11:49 PM |
#183 |
| -
Alien predator inside and will kill all other babies for the fun of it. |
RedCloud |
Jan-04-10 12:13 PM |
#187 |
| -
I'll wait before bashing our troops.... |
FarLeftFist |
Jan-04-10 12:31 PM |
#189 |
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