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Reply #124: Here's why removing posts from the front page or greatest page is censorship [View All]

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Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-30-09 03:30 PM
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124. Here's why removing posts from the front page or greatest page is censorship
Edited on Mon Nov-30-09 03:47 PM by Better Believe It

Here's why removing posts from the front page or greatest page is censorship

I thought this was obvious and didn't require an actual explanation.

When someones "votes" to remove a post from the front page or the "greatest" page what else can you call it, target marketing?

DU'ers who recommend a post for "the greatest" are not trying to exclude, censor or remove a post from any location on DU. DU'ers who don't agree with the "greatest" or "front page" post or who just don't like the poster, are free to criticize the post or even put the poster on ignore!

The unrecommend feature is a whole different kettle of fish. The difference between putting a post in a prominent location on a website and removing the post from that location should be very clear.

The unrecommend feature enables people to remove, bump down or even prevent posts from even appearing on the "greatest page" and the front "home page" with a simple click of the mouse!

The clear objective of such clicks is to reduce the number of views (hits) of posts that they don't agree with. Or some posters just don't like a particular poster so they remove it from a prominent location on DU! That's censorship, even if a few posters try to pretty it up by claiming it's a democratic form of exclusion, a "peoples censorhip"!

Again, the undemocratic consequence of the "unrecommend" feature is to reduce the number of DU'ers who notice and are likely to read the post. And that's why some political cliques and more conservative people love it! In the case of DU administrators, it looks like the "law of unintended consequences" has struck.

It's a simple as that.

The purpose of "the Greatest Page" was not to record "votes" in support of or in opposition to certain political views or posters some DU'ers don't like.

Democratic Underground clearly states: "The Greatest Page lists threads which have been nominated by the members of DU as the most noteworthy." It was not intended as a means of casting "votes" for or against including posts on the "greatest page" or the homepage (frontpage) on Democratic Underground.

In any case, if this "greatest page", "front page" removal mechanism remains in place, I hope that the information showing the total number of recommends and unrecommends for posts is displayed for all DU'ers to see, not just administrators/moderators.

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  -Un-Rec This Thread WilliamPitt  Nov-30-09 11:30 AM   #0 
  - UnReced.  MNDemNY   Nov-30-09 11:31 AM   #1 
  - As long as you don't unrec the kitteh threads  Sebastian Doyle   Nov-30-09 11:34 AM   #4 
  - +1 DU needs a "kick down" smilie. nt  phasma ex machina   Nov-30-09 05:39 PM   #133 
  - It's so easy...  derby378   Nov-30-09 11:33 AM   #2 
  - Can't the mods figure out who the un-rec imp is?  CJCRANE   Nov-30-09 11:33 AM   #3 
  - IMHO, Yes, they can determine who un-recced. No, not sure if they can disable a function.  NYC_SKP   Nov-30-09 01:15 PM   #90 
  - No, the mods can't, but the admins can, and they have.  TexasObserver   Nov-30-09 02:56 PM   #116 
  - Remove the unrec  MattBaggins   Nov-30-09 11:34 AM   #5 
  - What if 5 DUers think it's good and 50 DUers think it's bad?  CJCRANE   Nov-30-09 11:36 AM   #7 
  - Because with a let it rise system  MattBaggins   Nov-30-09 11:42 AM   #24 
     - In that case if they raised the Greatest Page threshold to 10 or 20 recs  CJCRANE   Nov-30-09 11:45 AM   #27 
     - Not a bad plan. Put me down for that one. n/t  The Doctor.   Nov-30-09 12:25 PM   #78 
     - Funny - my perception is that is exactly how the rec  Ms. Toad   Nov-30-09 04:03 PM   #127 
  - I second this idea. ... leave the "rec" where it is, dump the "unrec"" option.  Demoiselle   Nov-30-09 12:25 PM   #77 
     - Dropping has nothing to do with rec/unrec.  Ms. Toad   Nov-30-09 04:04 PM   #128 
        - Exactly. If nobody's interested they will neither respond nor will they "rec."  Demoiselle   Nov-30-09 05:28 PM   #131 
           - Recs and responses are not the same thing.  Ms. Toad   Nov-30-09 06:50 PM   #139 
  - I say Fix it. Or dump it.  CaliforniaPeggy   Nov-30-09 11:35 AM   #6 
  - Ditto.  StarfarerBill   Nov-30-09 11:48 AM   #35 
  - Maybe people un-rec the six or seventh thread on the exact same topic?  Zywiec   Nov-30-09 11:36 AM   #8 
  - Agreed. I unrecommend all but the best threads on such topics.  TexasObserver   Nov-30-09 03:02 PM   #119 
  - I did a thread on this topic a few weeks ago and was soundly thrashed. Good luck.  Ian David   Nov-30-09 11:36 AM   #9 
  - I would have thought someone like you has better things to write about...  A HERETIC I AM   Nov-30-09 11:37 AM   #10 
  - I'm surprised myself  WilliamPitt   Nov-30-09 11:39 AM   #17 
  - You're right. I didn't have to click or comment. Or unrec. Or vote, for that matter.  A HERETIC I AM   Nov-30-09 11:54 AM   #46 
     - "This subject has been hashed over so much it is getting monotonous."  WilliamPitt   Nov-30-09 11:56 AM   #51 
        - It was silly! That was the entire point.  A HERETIC I AM   Nov-30-09 12:03 PM   #60 
  - whores are always concerned about the streets they walk.  dysfunctional press   Nov-30-09 08:37 PM   #145 
  - Actually, a "Like" or "Dislike" would be nice to have.  Jamastiene   Nov-30-09 11:37 AM   #11 
  - That would be confusing to me.  Toucano   Nov-30-09 11:56 AM   #52 
  - Good point.  Jamastiene   Nov-30-09 01:28 PM   #94 
     - What if we abandon rec/unrec or like/dislike and go with Important/frivolous?  Toucano   Nov-30-09 02:24 PM   #110 
  - That's sooo FACEBOOK! :)  RoadRage   Nov-30-09 02:24 PM   #109 
  - I think five per day would be a good correction.  kentuck   Nov-30-09 11:37 AM   #12 
  - eh - music without silence between the notes is just noise.  sui generis   Nov-30-09 11:38 AM   #13 
  - I suppose this controversy will make more sense to me with time?  seeinfweggos   Nov-30-09 11:38 AM   #14 
  - :yawning:  Lost-in-FL   Nov-30-09 11:38 AM   #15 
  - Thanks for the kick  WilliamPitt   Nov-30-09 11:39 AM   #19 
  - Dump it  Nite Owl   Nov-30-09 11:38 AM   #16 
  - Under the current system, there shouldn't be any penalties  bigwillq   Nov-30-09 11:39 AM   #18 
  - I think people should have their unreq stats listed as public info, just like # of posts is.  John Q. Citizen   Nov-30-09 11:39 AM   #20 
  - Or if you un-rec, you *have* to say why.  WilliamPitt   Nov-30-09 11:41 AM   #22 
     - If you *have* to say why you would unrec, you should have to say why you rec....  A HERETIC I AM   Nov-30-09 12:33 PM   #82 
     - I unrecommended this thread because it's been done 100 times.  TexasObserver   Nov-30-09 03:14 PM   #120 
     - Like there was accountability when there was only rec -  Ms. Toad   Nov-30-09 04:08 PM   #129 
  - I don't think unrec has fulfilled it's purpose.  Renew Deal   Nov-30-09 11:40 AM   #21 
  - But then 5 people can over-rule the majority. That's worse than a filibuster nt.  CJCRANE   Nov-30-09 11:43 AM   #25 
  - No, 5 people are 5 people.  Renew Deal   Nov-30-09 11:46 AM   #30 
     - Five people could and did game the system to make their views look represenative of DU nt  HamdenRice   Nov-30-09 11:48 AM   #36 
        - How has unrec changed that?  Renew Deal   Nov-30-09 11:54 AM   #47 
           - "The old system floated the best stuff to the top. This one is just a popularity contest."  A HERETIC I AM   Nov-30-09 11:58 AM   #55 
           - You just proved my point.  Renew Deal   Nov-30-09 12:03 PM   #61 
              - In a community of 1000's, just 5 people shouldn't have that power IMO nt  CJCRANE   Nov-30-09 12:07 PM   #65 
                 - That's a different point.  Renew Deal   Nov-30-09 12:12 PM   #69 
                    - That would be my suggestion too. 5 is too low. nt  CJCRANE   Nov-30-09 12:13 PM   #70 
           - It's a partisan message board. There's nothing wrong with voting stuff down.  CJCRANE   Nov-30-09 11:58 AM   #56 
           - That's the other major problem with the feature.  Renew Deal   Nov-30-09 12:06 PM   #64 
              - Nothing is suppressed. The posts are still there in the forums and in the "Top Tens".  CJCRANE   Nov-30-09 12:11 PM   #67 
                 - Interesting point  Renew Deal   Nov-30-09 12:18 PM   #72 
           - Why should 5 disgruntled people get to make their opinions look representative ?  HamdenRice   Nov-30-09 11:59 AM   #58 
           - Because they are representative.  Renew Deal   Nov-30-09 12:11 PM   # 
           - Utter nonsense  HamdenRice   Nov-30-09 12:19 PM   #73 
           - Mark this day down in your calendar.  trotsky   Nov-30-09 05:58 PM   #136 
           - According to the admins, Unrecommend HAS changed for the better the Greatest Page.  TexasObserver   Nov-30-09 03:17 PM   #121 
  - There are "rec this thread" posts  Ms. Toad   Nov-30-09 04:12 PM   #130 
  - Time to flush it down  eleny   Nov-30-09 11:41 AM   #23 
  - K&R'd. Among other things, I honestly think trolls use it to try to sink worthy posts.  snot   Nov-30-09 11:44 AM   #26 
  - And how does unreccing a thread sink it?  Ms. Toad   Nov-30-09 09:07 PM   #148 
     - Yeah, like this thread, for example. It's probably down to -50  Quantess   Nov-30-09 10:53 PM   #160 
  - the whole un-rec thing is childish, I'm surprised your getting involved  crazyjoe   Nov-30-09 11:45 AM   #28 
  - Slow day  WilliamPitt   Nov-30-09 11:46 AM   #31 
     - Yeah but 5 trolls can rec up an OP to the Greatest Page that everybody else hates.  CJCRANE   Nov-30-09 11:48 AM   #34 
        - You're assuming that people that disagree with you are trolls  Renew Deal   Nov-30-09 11:50 AM   #39 
           - K&R IF YOU LOVE SUSAN BOYLE!!!!!  CJCRANE   Nov-30-09 11:52 AM   #43 
              - That hasn't stopped.  Renew Deal   Nov-30-09 11:57 AM   #53 
                 - It's more diverse now. We have the GP and the four "Top Ten" pages nt.  CJCRANE   Nov-30-09 12:00 PM   #59 
  - I like the unrec. It's keeps the silliest crapola off the front page.  onehandle   Nov-30-09 11:46 AM   #29 
  - Was the silliest crapola on the front page before?  Renew Deal   Nov-30-09 11:49 AM   #37 
     - I forget the exact wording but it was something like this...  onehandle   Nov-30-09 12:52 PM   #88 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Nov-30-09 11:47 AM   #32 
  - I like un-rec, even though I rarely use it. However...  trotsky   Nov-30-09 11:47 AM   #33 
  - Keep it  sharp_stick   Nov-30-09 11:49 AM   #38 
  - I say dump it all....  jus_the_facts   Nov-30-09 11:50 AM   #40 
  - Fix it. Since it has been determined that it will be, it needs to be tweaked.  Greyhound   Nov-30-09 11:51 AM   #41 
  - I wish I had another unrec to unrec this thread.  Major Hogwash   Nov-30-09 11:52 AM   #42 
  - I like your sig link  WilliamPitt   Nov-30-09 11:54 AM   #45 
  - I wish that  H2O Man   Nov-30-09 11:52 AM   #44 
  - Thank you, sir  WilliamPitt   Nov-30-09 11:55 AM   #48 
     - Slow and steady .....  H2O Man   Nov-30-09 11:57 AM   #54 
        - It's all about perspective, old friend.  WilliamPitt   Nov-30-09 11:58 AM   #57 
           - Exactly.  H2O Man   Nov-30-09 12:04 PM   #63 
              - LOL  WilliamPitt   Nov-30-09 12:08 PM   #66 
                 - Of course,  H2O Man   Nov-30-09 03:01 PM   #118 
  - The thread topic itself isn't the only thing people are voting on.  greyl   Nov-30-09 11:55 AM   #49 
  - You're brave.  bobbolink   Nov-30-09 11:56 AM   #50 
  - Keep it as is nt  michreject   Nov-30-09 12:04 PM   #62 
  - FWIW.... accounts with 0 posts shouldn't be allowed to rec or unrec  Bobbie Jo   Nov-30-09 12:11 PM   #68 
  - I know an elderly woman who has been a member here for a long time but she says she has never, ever  Kaleva   Nov-30-09 02:04 PM   #105 
     - I'm sure there are several who do that, but....  Bobbie Jo   Nov-30-09 02:44 PM   #115 
  - I see no point in the rec/unrec feature.  redwitch   Nov-30-09 12:15 PM   #71 
  - They should change the recommend/unrecommend deadline from 24 hours to 24 business hours. n/t  LoZoccolo   Nov-30-09 12:20 PM   #74 
  - Seems to me that you have to go out of your way to keep track of how many unrecs a thread gets.  MilesColtrane   Nov-30-09 12:20 PM   #75 
  - It ain't broke, and doesn't need to be fixed...  SidDithers   Nov-30-09 12:23 PM   #76 
  - Now I'm hated here  Politics_Guy25   Nov-30-09 12:33 PM   #83 
  - Agreed. nt  onehandle   Nov-30-09 01:54 PM   #103 
  - Well said.  Behind the Aegis   Nov-30-09 02:33 PM   #113 
  - Un-rec'd - does not belong on Greatest Page  TrogL   Nov-30-09 12:30 PM   #79 
  - How about getting rid of both and the Greatest Page?  mamaleah   Nov-30-09 12:32 PM   #80 
  - That isn't true at all. Flame-bait and controversial threads are consistenly at the top.  Quantess   Nov-30-09 11:03 PM   #161 
  - can you add a "who cares about the damn recs" option?  dionysus   Nov-30-09 12:32 PM   #81 
  - I think one could finds examples of threads being rec'ed for no obvious reason.  Kaleva   Nov-30-09 12:36 PM   #84 
  - Indeed.  Bobbie Jo   Nov-30-09 12:42 PM   #86 
  - Which further makes the case, I think,  WilliamPitt   Nov-30-09 12:50 PM   #87 
     - Then, perhaps both should be eliminated? nt  Bobbie Jo   Nov-30-09 12:54 PM   #89 
     - I would keep both or get rid of both.  Kaleva   Nov-30-09 01:38 PM   #96 
  - Why not *name* the reccers and unreccers?  Nye Bevan   Nov-30-09 12:36 PM   #85 
  - knr  hfojvt   Nov-30-09 01:16 PM   #91 
  - I can't believe this very well intended thread is being unrecced. WTF. K and R.  NYC_SKP   Nov-30-09 01:18 PM   #92 
  - I'm sure it's just personal. n/t  rucky   Nov-30-09 01:21 PM   #93 
  - i said "keep it as is", but on second thought...  tk2kewl   Nov-30-09 01:32 PM   #95 
  - As long as one requires an explanation post before being allowed to rec.  Kaleva   Nov-30-09 01:42 PM   #97 
  - That was my point but I was told that it's a waste of time to explain sometimes.  CTyankee   Nov-30-09 01:48 PM   #100 
  - I'm as sick of threads about unrec as I was  Morning Dew   Nov-30-09 01:46 PM   #98 
  - K&R  Electric Monk   Nov-30-09 10:33 PM   #155 
  - So what? So some thread you think is worthy isn't deemed worthy by others.  TexasObserver   Nov-30-09 01:46 PM   #99 
  - The Great One weighs in on Unrec  cherokeeprogressive   Nov-30-09 01:50 PM   #101 
  - oh not this unrec shit again....  azmouse   Nov-30-09 01:51 PM   #102 
  - Naive to think there won't be some unjustified unrec's. I think the  harun   Nov-30-09 02:00 PM   #104 
  - I was initially totally opposed to it, but now I see its value.  BlueIris   Nov-30-09 02:07 PM   #106 
  - Unrec is the new black  NoPasaran   Nov-30-09 02:11 PM   #107 
  - Oh there's a pattern a consistency *being* formed and it isn't just one misfiring synapse...  bridgit   Nov-30-09 02:22 PM   #108 
  - It's those damned freepers!  Hubert Flottz   Nov-30-09 02:25 PM   #111 
  - I rec this thread.  arcadian   Nov-30-09 02:26 PM   #112 
  - I ignore it and don't go to "Greatest" page.  uppityperson   Nov-30-09 02:37 PM   #114 
  - I think some (not all) of these unrecs are accidents  RetroLounge   Nov-30-09 03:00 PM   #117 
  - Some threads have too many recs in proportion to other threads  Quantess   Nov-30-09 03:21 PM   #122 
  - Yes, dump the stupid thing already.  HuckleB   Nov-30-09 03:27 PM   #123 
  - Here's why removing posts from the front page or greatest page is censorship  Better Believe It   Nov-30-09 03:30 PM   #124 
  - I say keep em both or get rid of them both.  aikoaiko   Nov-30-09 03:33 PM   #125 
  - More bitching about the un-rec feature.  Blue-Jay   Nov-30-09 03:36 PM   #126 
  - A sneaky way to by pass DU rules  question everything   Nov-30-09 05:35 PM   #132 
  - There's a reason it's called the law of *large* numbers, of course.  BlooInBloo   Nov-30-09 05:42 PM   #134 
  - It's pretty pathetic that some people can't stand to have their thread unrecced.  LostInAnomie   Nov-30-09 05:58 PM   #135 
  - I don't unrecommend and try to censor anyones posts because that's undemocratic  Better Believe It   Nov-30-09 10:05 PM   #153 
     - Unrec doesn't censor anyone.  LostInAnomie   Nov-30-09 10:32 PM   #154 
        - Yes it does. Here's how the censorship works via unrecommend  Better Believe It   Nov-30-09 10:40 PM   #156 
           - That's ridiculous. You can try to spin it any way you like, but...  LostInAnomie   Nov-30-09 10:53 PM   #159 
  - Is it really that important  madokie   Nov-30-09 06:01 PM   #137 
  - I think that the rec/unrec function means different things to duers  mdmc   Nov-30-09 06:08 PM   #138 
  - There's Enough Negativity On This Site, Dump The 'UnRec' Already !!!  WillyT   Nov-30-09 06:57 PM   #140 
  - It was far less becoming when there were 2-300 (anonymous) recs  Ms. Toad   Nov-30-09 09:21 PM   #150 
     - Easy Solution...  WillyT   Nov-30-09 10:03 PM   #152 
        - I agree, as a general philosophy  Ms. Toad   Dec-01-09 07:38 AM   #163 
  - It is the single dumbest feature available on any website. We make freerepublic ...  11 Bravo   Nov-30-09 07:03 PM   #141 
  - Prior to un-rec...  trotsky   Nov-30-09 08:32 PM   #142 
  - recced  Liberal_in_LA   Nov-30-09 08:34 PM   #143 
  - get rid of BOTH 'rec' and 'un-rec'...  dysfunctional press   Nov-30-09 08:35 PM   #144 
  - Keep as is.  Iggo   Nov-30-09 08:47 PM   #146 
  - Are there sleeper freeper cells?  RedCloud   Nov-30-09 08:57 PM   #147 
  - Oh gosh I hope so.  Iggo   Nov-30-09 09:08 PM   #149 
  - I say bag well as the recommend feature. It creates friction unnecessarily.  cry baby   Nov-30-09 09:27 PM   #151 
  - My main objection to it is that it is childish and demeans the level of discussion here  ruggerson   Nov-30-09 10:44 PM   #157 
  - It almost seems to be a flaw in the programming. It seems that  donheld   Nov-30-09 10:50 PM   #158 
  - Yeah, but those early unrecs don't really matter in the long run...  Iggo   Dec-01-09 02:50 AM   #162 
  - I think some see any discussion about such thing as a bash to President Obama.  LaydeeBug   Dec-01-09 07:42 AM   #164 

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