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Reply #194: I agree - I thik the banks need some blame, but basically, people didn't do their homework. [View All]

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Rabrrrrrr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-28-09 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #185
194. I agree - I thik the banks need some blame, but basically, people didn't do their homework.
Anyone stupid enough to go into what is likely the largest purchase of their life, without having any knowledge about how mortgages work or any care for their own future, don't deserve a lot of "Oh, gee, you got duped, you poor, poor victim".

Nope - they brought it on themselves by refusing to educate themselves, by refusing to be temperate, and by refusing to take any kind of real look at their financial situation, as well as their own complicity in buying in lock, stock, and barrel with the consumerist American pathology of "Bigger bigger bigger!!!! Better better better!!!! Gotta do better than my friends!!!!!!!" leveraging themselves into bankruptcy to support a lifestyle that they can't fucking afford for the simple reason that they're afraid of looking "poor".

Well, now they look poor - and they look fucking stupid, too.

Banks should have done a better job and offered realistic mortgages; absolutely no doubt on that.

But unless those banks were holding guns to peoples' heads and making them sign on the dotted line, they're blame is reduced significantly.

And seriously - why would anyone trust a banker to know what the hell they're talking about? I've talked to so-called bankers when getting loans and doing financial transactions, and the ones I've come across are dumber than me, and they're supposedly "trained" by their banks to be able to do their jobs.

Well, they're not. And anyone who goes blindly into one of those meetings assuming that the banker is an expert and isn't just full of shit, is also a moron.
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  -I'm getting really sick of hearing about people who "bought more house than they could afford" --- sojourner  Nov-26-09 10:02 AM   #0 
  - K&R number four, all you need is two hundred more!  Deja Q   Nov-26-09 10:06 AM   #1 
  - We live in a $46 thousand dollar "hovel" . . .  DollyM   Nov-26-09 02:21 PM   #68 
     - Please forgive my sense of melodrama...  Deja Q   Nov-26-09 10:15 PM   #102 
     - Good luck  era veteran   Nov-27-09 06:08 AM   #133 
  - +1000  baldguy   Nov-26-09 10:06 AM   #2 
  - Or some of the corporations.  Deja Q   Nov-26-09 10:10 AM   #8 
  - Most of the bad mortgages were not from banks  FarCenter   Nov-26-09 01:13 PM   #62 
  - But who bought them up after they were  waiting for hope   Nov-26-09 05:14 PM   #71 
     - We got our mortgage from a LOCAL BANK,  TicketyBoo   Nov-27-09 05:19 AM   #124 
     - I think that CitiMortgage is part of CitiGroup, but it is not a bank  FarCenter   Nov-28-09 09:56 AM   #191 
        - CitiMortgage owns the paper on my house -  waiting for hope   Nov-28-09 01:45 PM   #203 
  - But they never would have gotten all that free money if they had admitted they were at fault  Go2Peace   Nov-27-09 12:50 AM   #113 
  - BUSH'S CHEAP MONEY MAKES HIGHER PRICES POSSIBLE  HowHasItComeToThis   Nov-27-09 01:41 AM   #120 
  - They didn't buy them with cash, after all.  Barack_America   Nov-26-09 10:07 AM   #3 
  - In every other profession there are standards of conduct.  wolfgangmo   Nov-27-09 09:42 AM   #164 
  - Countrywide lost a huge lawsuit  sandnsea   Nov-26-09 10:09 AM   #4 
  - When we bought our home three years ago -  donco6   Nov-26-09 10:09 AM   #5 
  - And, people forget that even a 'affordable' home is very expensive  debbierlus   Nov-26-09 10:35 AM   #23 
  - What was affordable may not be anymore with all the rates going up with everything.  glinda   Nov-26-09 11:10 AM   #31 
  - In 1997  TicketyBoo   Nov-26-09 10:59 AM   #30 
  - Same thing with us.  OnionPatch   Nov-26-09 11:42 AM   #41 
  - What about the  skepticscott   Nov-26-09 07:14 PM   #76 
  - Peer pressure?  gorfle   Nov-26-09 09:40 PM   #96 
  - It's not so simple, I have been sold an ajustable before and they lie through their teeth  Go2Peace   Nov-27-09 01:03 AM   #115 
  - It's also that people are illiterate when it comes to banking, and loan officers can prey on that.  Selatius   Nov-27-09 05:37 AM   #128 
  - Everyone was doing it?  skepticscott   Nov-27-09 07:09 AM   #140 
  - See post #128 n/t.  gorfle   Nov-27-09 09:28 AM   #157 
  - this american life- the giant pool of money. an excellent explanation of all  mopinko   Nov-27-09 09:18 AM   #154 
     - thank you thank you  gorfle   Nov-27-09 09:30 AM   #160 
  - yeah, & it was illegal to swap mortgages with other banks without  KakistocracyHater   Nov-27-09 12:26 AM   #112 
  - You forgot the "con" in the ponzi scheme.  fasttense   Nov-27-09 05:44 AM   #129 
  - Well, like I said, I didn't trust them myself.  OnionPatch   Nov-27-09 08:08 AM   #145 
  - What "good old days" are you dreaming of?  jmowreader   Nov-28-09 10:11 AM   #196 
  - Predators is way too nice  Scruffy1   Nov-27-09 09:17 AM   #153 
     - wrong url  Scruffy1   Nov-27-09 09:22 AM   #156 
  - The bank, if it suckered you, would've taken your loan and repackaged it into a security to sell.  Selatius   Nov-27-09 05:29 AM   #126 
  - Maybe we should reframe "foreclosed" to be "getting Bernied (Madoff)  wolfgangmo   Nov-27-09 09:48 AM   #165 
  - Absolutely right  Alcibiades   Nov-26-09 07:15 PM   #77 
  - Kick, Rec and AMEN!  Myrina   Nov-26-09 10:10 AM   #6 
  - People on both ends need to be held responsible  bluestateguy   Nov-26-09 10:10 AM   #7 
  - The seducers and the seduced  BeyondGeography   Nov-26-09 10:17 AM   #12 
  - I'm glad for your good judgment and happy ending. But when homebuyers act like humans  sojourner   Nov-26-09 10:26 AM   #19 
  - Lousy and hysterical analogy  skepticscott   Nov-26-09 07:10 PM   #74 
     - No.  TicketyBoo   Nov-27-09 05:27 AM   #125 
     - In a rape, your right to say no  skepticscott   Nov-27-09 07:01 AM   #139 
        - "Solely with the consumer"?  TicketyBoo   Nov-27-09 10:10 AM   #168 
           - No, they have none  skepticscott   Nov-28-09 08:51 AM   #186 
              - Again,  TicketyBoo   Nov-28-09 09:05 AM   #187 
                 - Are you deluded?  skepticscott   Nov-28-09 09:33 AM   #190 
                    - It's not a rant.  TicketyBoo   Nov-28-09 10:08 AM   #195 
     - good points...i was pissed when i wrote this and thus probably not as rational as could be.  sojourner   Nov-27-09 04:38 PM   #179 
     - I don't deny  skepticscott   Nov-28-09 09:07 AM   #188 
        - i understand (and to a degree agree with) that...... the problem is,  sojourner   Nov-28-09 01:14 PM   #201 
     - dupe delete  sojourner   Nov-27-09 04:40 PM   #180 
  - Agreed  Sherman A1   Nov-26-09 10:49 AM   #28 
  - If "personal responsibility" is a two way street here, the lenders have 5 lanes, borrowers 1  Gormy Cuss   Nov-26-09 11:20 AM   #34 
  - Yep.  TicketyBoo   Nov-26-09 11:34 AM   #39 
  - And was she  skepticscott   Nov-26-09 07:24 PM   #81 
     - Truth be told,  TicketyBoo   Nov-27-09 04:58 AM   #121 
  - exactly.  sojourner   Nov-26-09 11:44 AM   #43 
  - Who ultimately has control  skepticscott   Nov-26-09 07:21 PM   #79 
     - Who has an expectation of a well regulated mortgage market? The borrower.  Gormy Cuss   Nov-27-09 12:07 AM   #111 
     - And what exactly does  skepticscott   Nov-27-09 07:28 AM   #141 
        - Dishonest and fraudulent practices were rampant in the mortgage industry  Gormy Cuss   Nov-27-09 10:54 AM   #173 
           - And as I've stated numerous times  skepticscott   Nov-28-09 09:17 AM   #189 
     - What does the lender have control over? Loan approval.  TicketyBoo   Nov-27-09 05:04 AM   #122 
  - Nigerian Scam Emailers....  jberryhill   Nov-26-09 11:55 AM   #47 
  - I hope you aren't saying  TicketyBoo   Nov-26-09 12:10 PM   #52 
  - No, and I don't sympathize with con men of any type  jberryhill   Nov-26-09 07:29 PM   #82 
  - Con men know, you can't cheat an honest person.  pokercat999   Nov-27-09 06:13 AM   #134 
     - At the very least  skepticscott   Nov-27-09 08:08 AM   #146 
     - That is laughable  quakerboy   Nov-28-09 02:04 AM   #182 
     - Busted, maybe I should have said the EASIEST people to  pokercat999   Nov-28-09 05:39 AM   #184 
     - what the hell? where did that shit come from? are you a con man, and so privvy to the "rules"?  sojourner   Nov-28-09 01:16 PM   #202 
  - Agree 100%.  emilyg   Nov-26-09 06:59 PM   #73 
  - There used to be LAWS that protected people.  Stinky The Clown   Nov-26-09 10:12 AM   #9 
  - It was the most predatory marketing I have ever seen.  YOY   Nov-26-09 10:14 AM   #10 
  - The banks said investing in these houses was good financial sense.  Gold Metal Flake   Nov-26-09 10:16 AM   #11 
  - Adjustable rate mortgages should be illegal.  SPedigrees   Nov-26-09 10:20 AM   #13 
  - The bank didn't do that for you  skepticscott   Nov-26-09 07:41 PM   #85 
  - Maybe not warmer and fuzzier,  TicketyBoo   Nov-27-09 05:35 AM   #127 
     - Thank you. Exactly what I meant.  SPedigrees   Nov-27-09 04:05 PM   #178 
  - Not illegal, just restricted  FreeJoe   Nov-27-09 11:57 AM   #177 
  - Everyone in California has bought more house than they can afford  lunatica   Nov-26-09 10:22 AM   #14 
  - And that's the other issue-- affordability at a time of rapidly escalating sales prices.  Gormy Cuss   Nov-26-09 11:47 AM   #44 
  - Your argument assumes  skepticscott   Nov-26-09 07:44 PM   #86 
     - Nowhere did I state anything of the sort.  Gormy Cuss   Nov-26-09 11:58 PM   #110 
        - One of the problems in and around San Francisco  TicketyBoo   Nov-27-09 05:15 AM   #123 
        - Building up these days is much safer than it used to be.  Gormy Cuss   Nov-27-09 10:44 AM   #171 
        - So what specifically was the  skepticscott   Nov-27-09 08:35 AM   #149 
           - It was a direct response to someone commenting about the SF Bay area market  Gormy Cuss   Nov-27-09 10:46 AM   #172 
  - North Dakota has 4.2% unemployment  Alcibiades   Nov-26-09 07:19 PM   #78 
     - Who's buying these days?  lunatica   Nov-26-09 08:32 PM   #93 
     - That's a great idea...IF you can find a job....(insert sarcasm tag here )  prairierose   Nov-27-09 10:00 AM   #167 
  - I read your subject line and was mentally composing a flame  Warpy   Nov-26-09 10:22 AM   #15 
  - thanks, Warpy, for reading before flaming...  sojourner   Nov-26-09 10:31 AM   #21 
  - i agree with everything you said and I want to add that hope is a powerful drug  dugaresa   Nov-27-09 10:56 AM   #175 
  - I would also blame  quakerboy   Nov-28-09 03:09 PM   #204 
  - I have no sympathy for flippers, though.  QC   Nov-26-09 10:22 AM   #16 
  - It depends on the type of flipper  Warpy   Nov-26-09 10:30 AM   #20 
  - I would moderate even that  quakerboy   Nov-28-09 03:16 PM   #205 
  - There were a lot of these people  Alcibiades   Nov-26-09 07:22 PM   #80 
     - Agreed. n/t  QC   Nov-26-09 10:11 PM   #100 
  - How true. Not one single bank has closed because of bad loans. Not one.  Buzz Clik   Nov-26-09 10:23 AM   #17 
  - I've changed my perspective on this...  jberryhill   Nov-26-09 10:24 AM   #18 
  - Yes, what happened to trust?  KatyMan   Nov-26-09 11:51 AM   #46 
  - The mortgage broker makes more money if he puts you in a larger, riskier mortgage  FarCenter   Nov-26-09 01:19 PM   #63 
     - Exactly  skepticscott   Nov-26-09 08:03 PM   #89 
        - I think people who engage a realtor  TicketyBoo   Nov-27-09 05:45 AM   #130 
           - Unless you engage a buyer's agent  skepticscott   Nov-27-09 07:37 AM   #143 
              - In our town, at least,  TicketyBoo   Nov-27-09 11:48 AM   #176 
  - would you mind sharing what led to change of perspective?  sojourner   Nov-26-09 11:59 AM   #49 
  - Application Of Humility and Compassion  jberryhill   Nov-26-09 10:23 PM   #104 
  - So if a person is not ultimately responsible  skepticscott   Nov-26-09 07:49 PM   #87 
     - Con jobs do take two parties... but...  jberryhill   Nov-26-09 10:27 PM   #105 
  - The industry's bad, but the buyers are NOT blameless.  deadmessengers   Nov-26-09 10:32 AM   #22 
  - I'll tell you as I've told others...glad for you that you have the knowledge that brought you that  sojourner   Nov-26-09 10:39 AM   #25 
  - Please do not put words in my mouth.  deadmessengers   Nov-26-09 10:51 AM   #29 
  - and when you fall victim to someone, something that you DIDN'T have a ready defense? You will take  sojourner   Nov-26-09 11:32 AM   #37 
  - +1  wtmusic   Nov-26-09 12:27 PM   #58 
  - Your argument invalidly assumes  skepticscott   Nov-26-09 07:58 PM   #88 
  - Most people don't go to sales training or have an army of lawyers to cover their ass  AllentownJake   Nov-26-09 11:15 AM   #32 
  - the lack of any conscience...or maybe, a sleepless night now and then? certainly nothing  sojourner   Nov-26-09 11:57 AM   #48 
     - We have encourage socipathic behavior in society  AllentownJake   Nov-26-09 11:59 AM   #50 
        - as a collective, what you say is true. that also pisses me off. society has glorified predators  sojourner   Nov-26-09 12:05 PM   #51 
        - Human nature  AllentownJake   Nov-26-09 12:11 PM   #53 
           - i am proudly not a member of the tribe of those who are stealing or buying politicians  sojourner   Nov-26-09 12:18 PM   #55 
              - There used to be a name for that tribe  AllentownJake   Nov-26-09 12:35 PM   #61 
        - Agreed!  MrsCorleone   Nov-26-09 04:01 PM   #70 
  - But as I said in Post #30 of this thread,  TicketyBoo   Nov-26-09 11:19 AM   #33 
  - Is that a fact?  Missy Vixen   Nov-26-09 11:36 AM   #40 
     - that's the point of this post, actually. I am so sorry for what you're going through.  sojourner   Nov-26-09 11:43 AM   #42 
     - A suggestion,  TicketyBoo   Nov-27-09 05:56 AM   #132 
  - Living on disability here.  Hatchling   Nov-26-09 10:35 AM   # 
  - K&R - well said n/t  Sinti   Nov-26-09 10:35 AM   #24 
  - Friend of mine was an appraiser  Mopar151   Nov-26-09 10:44 AM   #26 
  - I haven't been "told" by any bank or credit union that I can afford  TwilightGardener   Nov-26-09 10:47 AM   #27 
  - Well, you haven't had our experience, then,  TicketyBoo   Nov-26-09 11:29 AM   #36 
     - I guess I haven't. I remember feeling both times like we were LUCKY  TwilightGardener   Nov-26-09 12:34 PM   #60 
        - Again, that was NOT our experience.  TicketyBoo   Nov-26-09 01:52 PM   #67 
  - i have plenty of compassion for those who actually got screwn.  uncle ray   Nov-26-09 11:21 AM   #35 
  - SOME -- not most -- and probably fewer than you think ARE guilty of simple greed.  sojourner   Nov-26-09 11:49 AM   #45 
  - K & R....good post..thank you..  winyanstaz   Nov-26-09 11:33 AM   #38 
  - Problem is, there are lots of people who bought more house than they could afford who are in trouble  earth mom   Nov-26-09 12:17 PM   #54 
  - truth  sojourner   Nov-26-09 12:19 PM   #56 
  - By all means, we can't blame anyone for their part in something.  RB TexLa   Nov-26-09 12:21 PM   #57 
  - you can. or you can look at walking a mile in their shoes. it's a choice of worldviews. one leads  sojourner   Nov-26-09 01:51 PM   #66 
  - After watching small town visitors to NYC get taken by Three Card Monty dealers  SOS   Nov-26-09 02:43 PM   #69 
  - Some did. But there was a general mentality that forms like in any bubble.  DuaneBidoux   Nov-26-09 12:28 PM   #59 
  - "Buying More House" conjures up McMansions.  juno jones   Nov-26-09 01:29 PM   #64 
  - that's what I'm saying. the meme of personal responsibility has  sojourner   Nov-26-09 01:49 PM   #65 
  - Thank you  Political_Junkie   Nov-26-09 06:10 PM   #72 
  - There were people who did this: mainly very well off people  Alcibiades   Nov-26-09 07:13 PM   #75 
  - AMEN, Alcibiades!!!  Mimosa   Nov-28-09 05:14 AM   #183 
  - Some of the anger comes from those of us who feel priced out by them  Recursion   Nov-26-09 07:31 PM   #83 
  - It is always refreshing to know that "tough love" is alive  Kid Dynamite   Nov-26-09 07:35 PM   #84 
  - A pox on the skunk that unrec'ed this!  Patchuli   Nov-26-09 08:03 PM   #90 
  - It's people who can't afford a house at all  treestar   Nov-26-09 08:22 PM   #91 
  - I'm thankful for your message,k*r  autorank   Nov-26-09 08:24 PM   #92 
  - The banks were given so much TARP money with no strings attached.  Riley18   Nov-26-09 08:32 PM   #94 
  - "All the banks are going to do is keep the money"???  boppers   Nov-27-09 01:33 AM   #118 
  - K&R!!!  SammyWinstonJack   Nov-26-09 08:36 PM   #95 
  - People were practically browbeaten into buying houses  Lydia Leftcoast   Nov-26-09 09:52 PM   #97 
  - Rec.  bertman   Nov-26-09 09:58 PM   #98 
  - Agreed, this is not the time for minor fine tuning.  pundaint   Nov-26-09 10:06 PM   #99 
  - And the other line "saving up for college". At $12000+ per year, for lowt wages, nobody would be ABL  Deja Q   Nov-26-09 10:14 PM   #101 
  - I agree and disagree  nini   Nov-26-09 10:17 PM   #103 
  - I did buy much more home than most could afford...  bobshin   Nov-26-09 10:53 PM   #106 
  - FIGHT BACK  annm4peace   Nov-26-09 10:56 PM   #107 
  - thank you n/t  rumpel   Nov-26-09 11:16 PM   #108 
  - Agreed. Was there not a time that the banks were not allowed to loan you money  gristy   Nov-26-09 11:22 PM   #109 
  - Banks were NEVER  skepticscott   Nov-27-09 08:01 AM   #144 
     - my how you parse....restrictive = not allowed and it matters not why. consumers were unaccustomed to  bettyellen   Nov-27-09 09:21 AM   #155 
        - You can call it parsing  skepticscott   Nov-27-09 09:42 AM   #163 
           - it doesn't make me feel anything. fact is the rules changed +despite Bloomberg et al, consumers  bettyellen   Nov-27-09 10:20 AM   #169 
  - The philosophy today is: anything any shark can get away with is ok.  Waiting For Everyman   Nov-27-09 12:54 AM   #114 
  - The "house-bubble" would-be-buyers are the ones in a real pickle  SoCalDem   Nov-27-09 01:14 AM   #116 
  - Looking at it that way  arikara   Nov-27-09 01:39 AM   #119 
  - Besides, the bad mortgages only caused a small part of the problem.  JDPriestly   Nov-27-09 01:27 AM   #117 
  - I remember house shopping with my hubby long ago.  JNelson6563   Nov-27-09 05:49 AM   #131 
  - Fundy's have been encouraging people to buy more than they can afford  era veteran   Nov-27-09 06:21 AM   #135 
  - Read Nance Gregg's article today......she calls it "lack of conscience".......n/t  secondwind   Nov-27-09 06:35 AM   #136 
  - The "laissez faire" crowd would decriminalize flim-flam scams.  DailyGrind51   Nov-27-09 06:59 AM   #137 
  - None  skepticscott   Nov-27-09 09:55 AM   #166 
  - That's right, and if any one of us loses his/her job at any time,  Trailrider1951   Nov-27-09 06:59 AM   #138 
  - Why is it then that only some people were "victimized" by dishonest banks and  Bentcorner   Nov-27-09 07:28 AM   #142 
  - I don't know where to begin with you.  TheCowsCameHome   Nov-27-09 08:12 AM   #147 
     - Why thank you. Thank you very much.  Bentcorner   Nov-27-09 09:00 AM   #150 
  - The do bear some responsibility though.  alarimer   Nov-27-09 08:32 AM   #148 
  - +1  Kaleva   Nov-27-09 09:29 AM   #158 
  - If the broker told them they could afford it, they are not to blame!  ecstatic   Nov-27-09 10:29 AM   #170 
  - I agree 100%  Don Draper   Nov-27-09 09:01 AM   #151 
  - Besides it is a repuke talking point.  kenfrequed   Nov-27-09 09:10 AM   #152 
  - It's the nature of bubbles  Turbineguy   Nov-27-09 09:29 AM   #159 
  - "...where is any sense of compassion in this world?"  KansDem   Nov-27-09 09:31 AM   #161 
  - not really..........and that's the sad answer to the question, isn't it?  sojourner   Nov-27-09 04:46 PM   #181 
  - Even my credit union  quaker bill   Nov-27-09 09:39 AM   #162 
  - Sorry, but personal responsibility does play an important role here  MadHound   Nov-27-09 10:54 AM   #174 
  - I'm sick of idiots who bought more house than they could afford  Taitertots   Nov-28-09 07:53 AM   #185 
  - These are right wing talking points  treestar   Nov-28-09 09:58 AM   #192 
  - Banks making loans available is a good thing  Taitertots   Nov-28-09 10:31 AM   #200 
  - I agree - I thik the banks need some blame, but basically, people didn't do their homework.  Rabrrrrrr   Nov-28-09 10:05 AM   #194 
  - I didn't buy a house during the bubble because I knew that I could not afford one.  QC   Nov-28-09 10:03 AM   #193 
  - Neither did I and now we are being asked to pay for their over spending n/t  Taitertots   Nov-28-09 10:23 AM   #199 
     - who is asking you for anything? fine to give money to bankers, no strings. fine to bail out AIG. but  sojourner   Nov-28-09 03:53 PM   #206 
  - The scheme was interest only or low mortgage payments and escalating home prices.  Fla Dem   Nov-28-09 10:17 AM   #197 
  - Not all those people were duped. I bought a house years ago. I knew what Icould afford.  Honeycombe8   Nov-28-09 10:23 AM   #198 

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