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Reply #17: While I tend to agree on the problem [View All]

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quaker bill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-15-09 07:48 AM
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17. While I tend to agree on the problem
I think Green throws too much off on the Office of the President for all of this. One of the larger disservices Reagan delivered to this country is the notion that Presidents are elected and then serve as vehicles of wish fulfillment for the country at large.

In this regard Presidents have come to be seen as near mystical figures that cause all this "stuff", that Green recounts fairly well, to happen.

Presidents are in fact more an expression of the society than the leadership of it, even GW Bush, in fact he is the most poignant example. Yes he did lie us into a war, but polling at the time was clear that 85 percent of the American public wanted to believe it (the tale was so weak that you needed to want to believe it to do so). More than 50 percent still wanted to believe it even after no WMD were found, and re-elected him in 2004.

The people wanted to believe that they could have everything they wanted, good wars, good schools, good roads, good times for all, and not have to pay taxes for any of it. All they had to do was shrink government and get rid of "waste, fraud, and abuse". That it was utter fantasy is proved by the decline in public services and increase in deficits anywhere enough republicans gained elected office to put the policy in place. Balooning deficits start at Cities and runs through Counties, States, and all the way to the Federal level anywhere these guys touched.

What brought a halt to the wish fulfillment drive with GW Bush was the hour upon hour of devastation and utter incompetence beamed into our living rooms in the aftermath of Katrina. From that point forward, he could no longer be a vehicle for this drive. It was that moment that shifted this near psychotic drive onto the Democratic party. This in time resulted in the election of Barack Obama.

My critique of Green is that he furthers this notion, by making Obama out to be the next wish fulfillment vehicle, and then claims we should all be somehow disappointed that all the wishes have not materialized already. There is nothing about the project Mr. Green and I would generally agree on, the end of wars, attacking global warming, restoring fiscal accountability to future generations, true access to healthcare for all, and ever so much more, that is anything less than a monumental task. The notion that Obama could somehow snap his fingers and make decades of truly bad governance disappear in 10 months (and that we should be disappionted that he hasn't) has lovely emotional appeal, but lacks the ingtergity and intellectual seriousness called for by the task at hand.
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  -Twenty Years From Now, You Will Lie To Your Children kpete  Nov-14-09 10:00 AM   #0 
  - If you check their schools...  daleanime   Nov-14-09 10:15 AM   #1 
  - HA! I've outsmarted Green  TlalocW   Nov-14-09 11:39 AM   #2 
  - Yes, but at least we have the decency to be consistent by lying to ourselves, too.  Karmadillo   Nov-14-09 11:46 AM   #3 
  - It is my fervent hope  SmileyRose   Nov-14-09 11:47 AM   #4 
  - I don't want to be an economic unit  XemaSab   Nov-14-09 11:57 AM   #5 
  - You'd still be an economic unit,  Igel   Nov-14-09 12:54 PM   #6 
  - Unless you live in a post-scarcity society...  StarfarerBill   Nov-14-09 03:30 PM   #7 
     - .  Greyhound   Nov-14-09 05:27 PM   #12 
  - When this happens they send in troops  DireStrike   Nov-14-09 04:04 PM   #9 
  - It would only take 10% - 20% to break the system.  Greyhound   Nov-14-09 05:28 PM   #13 
  - And what would we eat?  Nederland   Nov-15-09 09:38 AM   #28 
  - A great way to  LatteLibertine   Nov-14-09 03:55 PM   #8 
  - The best way to be green is to starve to death.  anonymous171   Nov-14-09 04:20 PM   #10 
  - Can I start smoking again if I choose this plan?  imdjh   Nov-15-09 08:40 AM   #19 
  - Only if you're on fire.  Jackpine Radical   Nov-15-09 10:13 AM   #34 
  - Twenty years from now, they will call you an hero. n/t  LoZoccolo   Nov-15-09 09:23 AM   #25 
  - Why should my kids take care of you...  Nederland   Nov-15-09 09:09 AM   #22 
     - We pay taxes. We're paying for their education.  Missy Vixen   Nov-15-09 09:57 AM   #30 
        - Obviously you didn't read my whole post  Nederland   Nov-15-09 10:33 AM   #36 
           - Yawn  Missy Vixen   Nov-15-09 01:57 PM   #37 
              - "Those kids suck up resources everyone else pays for"  Nederland   Nov-15-09 11:17 PM   #39 
  - K&R. I wonder how many lie awake at night, trying to ignore their conscience? n/t  Greyhound   Nov-14-09 05:25 PM   #11 
  - Not new  ThoughtCriminal   Nov-14-09 06:59 PM   #14 
  - can't lie to kids you don't have.  niyad   Nov-15-09 01:27 AM   #15 
  - 20 years from NOW? The boomers already fucked us hard and long.  RadiationTherapy   Nov-15-09 06:05 AM   #16 
  - wow, did you mean to pick a fight?  tomp   Nov-15-09 09:20 AM   #24 
  - Individuals are intelligent, mobs are dumb. Unfortunately we are all lumped  RadiationTherapy   Nov-15-09 09:35 AM   #26 
     - Not I.  quaker bill   Nov-15-09 09:22 PM   #38 
     - You might want to rethink your categories.  EFerrari   Nov-15-09 11:44 PM   #40 
  - just by existing, we all participate  BlancheSplanchnik   Nov-15-09 10:05 AM   #32 
  - Resent your parents much?  Bette Noir   Nov-15-09 10:13 AM   #33 
  - While I tend to agree on the problem  quaker bill   Nov-15-09 07:48 AM   #17 
  - + 1  Caretha   Nov-15-09 08:38 AM   #18 
  - Twenty years from now, if you leave your dorm room, you might be a reality based adult. nt  imdjh   Nov-15-09 08:41 AM   #20 
  - Is this you demonstrating your 'adulthood'?  RadiationTherapy   Nov-15-09 09:19 AM   #23 
  - Twenty years from now AI computers will run everything  Nederland   Nov-15-09 09:05 AM   #21 
  - Maybe then our gate will close properly.  EFerrari   Nov-15-09 11:45 PM   #41 
  - I don't understand the RW's anger  FarLeftFist   Nov-15-09 09:37 AM   #27 
  - Does anyone think we will pay the national debt?  jimmil   Nov-15-09 09:54 AM   #29 
  - Too bad the Clinton surpluses weren't continued  gmoney   Nov-15-09 10:03 AM   #31 
  - The legacy of the Boomers will be "I'm sorry IF..."  imdjh   Nov-15-09 10:18 AM   #35 
  - Point well taken, though I'm 54 with no children to whom I may lie.  Vidar   Nov-16-09 05:53 AM   #42 
 

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