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Spike89 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #115
151. I think it is American (but not exclusively)
I really believe the social upheavals of the last century are still reverberating. It a huge social change to go from a primarily agrarian/rural norm where large families were economic boons and most jobs were muscle/sweat based to a modern urban lifestyle where kids are expenses, not assets (financially) and most jobs, even so called menial ones, are not based on muscle power.

These are often overlooked factors in the gender/job discussions. I know it is accepted that men "ruled" women and kept them down through history until women got fed up and began fighting in the 60s and 70s, but accepted isn't always right. The truth is that effective and available birth control, along with mechanization set the stage. Society (yes, men and women) was slow to change as it always is. People tend to expect and pursue a family structure similar to what they experienced. It took generations after large families had mostly lost their advantage before people even tried to limit the number of children. It also took a long time after it was neccessary to get used to women working outside the home.

We've been struggling to make adjustments to these things. There isn't a blueprint for social change (and really, no coherent or widely agreed upon paths). I firmly believe that women need and deserve opportunities to enter every professional field. More than that, they have needed (and still need in too many fields) affirmative action to break into traditionally male areas.

However, we also tend to try to fix things that are fixed (or well on their way to being fixed). For instance, we noticed that men dominated higher education and got more college degrees. By the time we launched programs to encourage women academically, women were already beginning to dominate in schools and colleges.

We forget that telling a senior in high school "OK, now young women can get engineering degrees" is pretty pointless if she spent her entire 12 years until then believing that marriage or maybe the steno pool were her choices. Telling a 1st grader the same information can make a huge difference, but of course, you won't know that for 12 years.

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  -Women Are Overtaking Men in the U.S. apples and oranges  Nov-08-09 06:14 PM   #0 
  - A woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle...  Taverner   Nov-08-09 06:15 PM   #1 
  - The Good News Is That As Man Gets Older - He No Longer Needs Woman Either  ProleNoMore   Nov-08-09 06:17 PM   #3 
     - No one 'needs' anyone  Taverner   Nov-08-09 06:18 PM   #5 
     - Was Referring To The Sexual Imperative - Have Reached The Age Were Woman No Longer Cause A Stir  ProleNoMore   Nov-08-09 06:25 PM   #13 
     - Ahem, Viagra could change that.  Beacool   Nov-08-09 06:29 PM   #17 
     - Yes, but so can some hardcore porn and some nitrous oxide  Taverner   Nov-08-09 07:01 PM   #41 
     - Whatever works...............  Beacool   Nov-08-09 07:22 PM   #45 
     - Hardcore Porn Barely Registers A Flicker Of Excitement For This One Any More  ProleNoMore   Nov-08-09 07:22 PM   #47 
        - Please don't tell me that's my destiny  Taverner   Nov-08-09 07:31 PM   #55 
           - lol im crying too mate, i want to be having kids when im in my hundreds  vadawg   Nov-08-09 08:15 PM   #65 
     - Without Initiating Hormones The Urge Is Just Not There  ProleNoMore   Nov-08-09 07:21 PM   #44 
        - Well, as long as you're happy.  Beacool   Nov-08-09 07:28 PM   #52 
           - Really Without The Physical Pressure To Date And Mate - Life Is Much Less Stressful  ProleNoMore   Nov-08-09 07:30 PM   #53 
     - what age is that exactly?  Skittles   Nov-09-09 09:07 PM   #173 
     - Perhaps, but I'll take a dog or cat any day before I'd take in a person.  Xicano   Nov-09-09 12:44 PM   #131 
     - wow! someone else who feels exactly as I do!  dana_b   Nov-09-09 02:34 PM   #164 
        - Here, here  Xicano   Nov-09-09 03:48 PM   #167 
     - Yeah but who wants a woman around unless you want to/get to fuck her?  redqueen   Nov-09-09 12:44 PM   #132 
        - IMO, I've seen that go both ways.  Xicano   Nov-09-09 12:54 PM   #136 
        - Any posts in here saying that?  redqueen   Nov-09-09 12:55 PM   #138 
           - I am not sure why you're getting all bent out of shape?  Xicano   Nov-09-09 01:06 PM   #146 
              - The post he responded to is a smart-alecky saying from the 70s...  redqueen   Nov-09-09 01:10 PM   #147 
                 - "Sex is all men desire from women"  Xicano   Nov-09-09 01:30 PM   #150 
                    - That's all I'm saying.  redqueen   Nov-09-09 01:49 PM   #152 
                       - Last question.  Xicano   Nov-09-09 02:19 PM   #158 
                          - Oh FFS.  redqueen   Nov-09-09 02:22 PM   #159 
                             - Thanks for the clarity.  Xicano   Nov-09-09 02:26 PM   #160 
        - Who needs to fuck anybody when you can do a better job on your own?  Taverner   Nov-09-09 12:59 PM   #141 
           - Yeah... I always had this naive belief  redqueen   Nov-09-09 01:01 PM   #142 
              - Friendship is why I got married, not the sex  Taverner   Nov-09-09 01:02 PM   #143 
     - christ i hope not, i want to live to die at 120 and my new wife the 15th one  vadawg   Nov-08-09 06:42 PM   #25 
     - Maybe Ones Hormones Will Hold Better Than this Ones Have Done Over Time  ProleNoMore   Nov-08-09 07:23 PM   #48 
     - I've lost count of how many older men I know who can't take care of  Lorien   Nov-09-09 11:03 AM   #103 
     - Men & women no longer wanting the other - Pretty pathetic  bikingaz   Nov-09-09 08:47 PM   #172 
  - it all sounds good until there is an invasion of bathroom dwelling spiders  vadawg   Nov-08-09 06:16 PM   #2 
  - Nah... I just grab a tissue and smash the ever-loving-buggy nastiness out of them  JerseygirlCT   Nov-08-09 06:19 PM   #9 
  - LOL, my sentiments exactly.  Xicano   Nov-09-09 12:31 PM   #129 
  - Not in this house.  Robb   Nov-08-09 06:21 PM   #11 
  - Nope. Spiders are friends.  tnlefty   Nov-08-09 06:28 PM   #15 
  - I didn't even have to look. I knew you didn't live below the freeze line.  imdjh   Nov-08-09 06:35 PM   #20 
  - I have no idea what you mean...  tnlefty   Nov-08-09 06:41 PM   #24 
  - Right, it freezes there, hence no problem with venemous tropical critters.  imdjh   Nov-08-09 06:56 PM   #34 
     - Well we do have black widows and the less lethal, yet still  tnlefty   Nov-08-09 07:36 PM   #58 
     - Brown recluses are worse. They are much more aggressive than  Shell Beau   Nov-08-09 07:40 PM   #59 
        - We're getting a mess of these hard shell spiders that look like crabs.  imdjh   Nov-08-09 07:59 PM   #63 
        - That sounds like something from The Time Machine! n/t  janx   Nov-08-09 10:25 PM   #79 
           - here's a picture  imdjh   Nov-08-09 11:13 PM   #93 
              - That's pretty cool looking.  Shell Beau   Nov-09-09 09:54 AM   #100 
              - Oooh, a spiny orbweaver  Xithras   Nov-09-09 11:17 AM   #111 
              - Wow... neat!  redqueen   Nov-09-09 11:57 AM   #119 
              - Oooh. That's a beautiful spider.  myrna minx   Nov-09-09 12:28 PM   #128 
              - That is marvelous!  janx   Nov-09-09 05:56 PM   #169 
              - Cool spider.  Jamastiene   Nov-10-09 01:57 AM   #180 
        - Around here black widows like to hang out in obove ground  tnlefty   Nov-08-09 09:35 PM   #70 
     - Live in Montana, with black widows, even some small scorpions  havocmom   Nov-08-09 08:20 PM   #68 
        - Oh skeeters and the no see ums are the worst.  Shell Beau   Nov-08-09 09:15 PM   #69 
  - Well I do, and I try not to kill spiders. They are our friends.  Shell Beau   Nov-08-09 07:36 PM   #57 
     - The lizards do most of my bug killing.  imdjh   Nov-08-09 07:58 PM   #62 
  - Heh, that's what I tell visitors who notice the cobwebs in the corners  Lorien   Nov-09-09 11:08 AM   #105 
  - Actually, for my wife it's slugs.  FlyingSquirrel   Nov-08-09 06:34 PM   #19 
  - Funny you say that  d_b   Nov-08-09 06:35 PM   #21 
  - I hope that was intended as a bad joke.  ThomCat   Nov-08-09 06:38 PM   #22 
  - i hope to god that this post from you was meant as a joke  vadawg   Nov-08-09 06:44 PM   #27 
  - Yeah, I always find jokes with sexist stereotypes funny.  ThomCat   Nov-08-09 06:59 PM   #39 
     - lol dude you must be the most unhappy guy on the planet, the whole thing about humour is that its  vadawg   Nov-08-09 07:02 PM   #42 
     - Yeah!  Cherchez la Femme   Nov-08-09 07:14 PM   #43 
        - Yup, because accepting and enjoying sexist jokes is the authoritative  ThomCat   Nov-08-09 09:53 PM   #77 
           - and its amazing what the humourless dont understand....  vadawg   Nov-08-09 10:28 PM   #81 
           - What is it that you think I don't understand?  ThomCat   Nov-08-09 10:36 PM   #84 
              - lol just pointing out the fact that you are humourless and unable to understand as you put it  vadawg   Nov-08-09 10:39 PM   #86 
                 - I fully understand it. I also have a great sense of humor.  ThomCat   Nov-08-09 10:41 PM   #87 
                    - yes i guess your right, thats why there are no comedians who throw around stereotypes  vadawg   Nov-08-09 10:43 PM   #88 
                       - good intentions  imdjh   Nov-09-09 11:09 AM   #106 
           - Wow. You worked in HR didn't you? How does it feel to be a cranky old nun, trapped...  imdjh   Nov-09-09 10:56 AM   #101 
           - I knew a guy once  Cherchez la Femme   Nov-09-09 06:24 PM   #170 
           - Thank you for standing up for us!  Hell Hath No Fury   Nov-09-09 11:23 AM   #114 
           - Dude, relax  Brooklyns_Finest   Nov-09-09 02:28 PM   #161 
  - ...  Robb   Nov-08-09 06:45 PM   #28 
  - I love the quote in your signature, BTW.  ThomCat   Nov-08-09 10:38 PM   #85 
  - Personally I found it pretty pathetic  Lorien   Nov-09-09 11:12 AM   #107 
  - Q: How many feminists does it take to change a lightbulb?  GOTV   Nov-09-09 11:38 AM   #117 
  - No. I've always been the one to deal with the spiders...  janx   Nov-08-09 06:45 PM   #29 
  - I'm not afraid of spiders.  LeftyMom   Nov-08-09 07:34 PM   #56 
  - For me, it's the crawlspace--that's 100% a man's job. I will never, ever, ever go in there.  TwilightGardener   Nov-08-09 09:41 PM   #73 
  - Pfft! Several men I know call ME to remove spiders and snakes from their  Lorien   Nov-09-09 11:06 AM   #104 
  - Only on DU - the spider subthread is the most interesting part of the whole.  Ron Green   Nov-09-09 11:22 AM   #113 
  - Nope - I let the spiders be. I figure if the spiders are here,  myrna minx   Nov-09-09 12:26 PM   #127 
  - Well, Guy, can't say I share your concern  JerseygirlCT   Nov-08-09 06:17 PM   #4 
  - wtf. this article has a really unsavory tone, not to mention some outright lies.  cali   Nov-08-09 06:18 PM   #6 
  - If you take out everything said by Guy Garcia  Robb   Nov-08-09 06:20 PM   #10 
  - It really does seem confrontational. It is pushing a tone of men vs women.  ThomCat   Nov-08-09 06:41 PM   #23 
  - More than half the workforce, but making 77% the money.  Robb   Nov-08-09 06:18 PM   #7 
  - Cry me a river, Guy.  noamnety   Nov-08-09 06:19 PM   #8 
  - The women can have it.  Lagomorph   Nov-08-09 06:24 PM   #12 
  - Yeah, because women NEVER do hard work or work long hours  Arugula Latte   Nov-08-09 06:29 PM   #16 
  - and you'll have many more opportunites to do so.  Lagomorph   Nov-08-09 06:42 PM   #26 
  - rofl you should always stand back after lighting the touchpaper  vadawg   Nov-08-09 06:45 PM   #30 
  - You'll be taking care of the kids and doing the housework if I read that right  treestar   Nov-08-09 08:15 PM   #66 
     - yup but with a beer in one hand and ESPN on a TV in every room  vadawg   Nov-08-09 09:37 PM   #71 
        - That beer is not good for your figure  treestar   Nov-09-09 12:49 PM   #133 
  - Men are useless! Useless I tell you!  chrisa   Nov-08-09 06:27 PM   #14 
  - Men are much more likely to be working outside the reach of this study. Thanks to corporate culture.  imdjh   Nov-08-09 06:32 PM   #18 
  - +1. nt  anonymous171   Nov-08-09 11:19 PM   # 
  - Or working under the table to avoid child support payments.  Kalyke   Nov-09-09 12:52 PM   #134 
     - From the sidelines it's hard to imagine why any of these folks married each other.  imdjh   Nov-09-09 01:15 PM   #148 
        - "The surprising thing isn't that married people kill each other, it's that so few kill each other."  lukasahero   Nov-09-09 02:05 PM   #155 
        - I wasn't joking. It's an observation.  imdjh   Nov-09-09 02:16 PM   #157 
        - Fair enough  lukasahero   Nov-09-09 02:53 PM   #166 
        - BTW, thanks for the website, it's interesting. So what is your theory?  imdjh   Nov-09-09 02:34 PM   #163 
           - I was kind of thinking it had something to do with folks like the writer of the op article  lukasahero   Nov-09-09 02:50 PM   #165 
        - Um... in my case, it's actually provable.  Kalyke   Nov-09-09 02:30 PM   #162 
  - What is it exactly I need a man for again?  HipChick   Nov-08-09 06:47 PM   #31 
  - Nothing....absolutely nothing...  Lagomorph   Nov-08-09 06:56 PM   #33 
  - not sure i can access the pics on my puter at work, but im sure you can do a google search  vadawg   Nov-08-09 06:57 PM   #35 
  - Same reason a man needs a woman, sex. Outside of that all you get is trouble  The Straight Story   Nov-08-09 06:58 PM   #38 
  - Nope, note really.  Beacool   Nov-08-09 07:25 PM   #50 
     - You reminded me of this one line from a movie...  redqueen   Nov-09-09 12:02 PM   #120 
        - Well yeah, no guy can compete with Duracell  Beacool   Nov-09-09 12:26 PM   #126 
           - Heh... not so much duracell as...  redqueen   Nov-09-09 12:53 PM   #135 
  - Penis ?  UndertheOcean   Nov-08-09 07:00 PM   #40 
  - Naaaah, they are overrated.  Beacool   Nov-08-09 07:26 PM   #51 
  - You got me  Lorien   Nov-09-09 11:12 AM   #108 
  - And when they finally get the brute strength thing down, then we can talk.  kayakjohnny   Nov-08-09 06:52 PM   #32 
  - Can a statement be sexist and true at the same time?  Fire_Medic_Dave   Nov-08-09 09:50 PM   #76 
  - rofl i guess so.......  vadawg   Nov-08-09 10:28 PM   #82 
  - And brute strength is necessary for...what, exactly?  iris27   Nov-09-09 07:56 PM   #171 
  - Why break our backs when there are machines and other tools to do  Jamastiene   Nov-10-09 01:49 AM   #176 
  - He thinks we already are the dominant gender?  treestar   Nov-08-09 06:57 PM   #36 
  - Good , that means each man will have 2 or 3 women competing for him  UndertheOcean   Nov-08-09 06:57 PM   #37 
  - I would love to have 2 or 3 women competing for me!  Odin2005   Nov-08-09 07:30 PM   #54 
  - But they'll have to keep themselves in shape and enhance their looks  treestar   Nov-08-09 08:16 PM   #67 
  - nope, if there is 2 or 3 women for every guy, theres gonna be enough crazy or desperate chicks  vadawg   Nov-08-09 09:38 PM   #72 
  - Like I said. Keep dreaming  Lorien   Nov-09-09 11:18 AM   #112 
  - And learn to cook, clean, and care for the kids  Lorien   Nov-09-09 11:16 AM   #110 
  - How so?  treestar   Nov-08-09 09:54 PM   #78 
  - I could get used to living this "New Age of Women" . nt  anonymous171   Nov-08-09 11:17 PM   #94 
  - Keep dreaming  Lorien   Nov-09-09 11:15 AM   #109 
  - LOL  redqueen   Nov-09-09 12:03 PM   #121 
  - Um... if we don't need you, then why would we fall all overselves competing for you?  Kalyke   Nov-09-09 12:55 PM   #137 
  - Well, if you are going to dream...  Jamastiene   Nov-10-09 01:50 AM   #177 
  - Hence the backlash. nt  Sparkly   Nov-08-09 07:22 PM   #46 
  - Oh noes! It's a national emergency! Women need to be put in their place! *SARCASM*  Odin2005   Nov-08-09 07:24 PM   #49 
  - LOL. 60% of family's primary breadwinner is a man, 70% of phd's are men  La Lioness Priyanka   Nov-08-09 07:41 PM   #60 
  - I guess I am in that 30% because I am the breadwinner in my family.  Shell Beau   Nov-08-09 07:44 PM   #61 
  - Smart, fair legislation like Lilly Ledbetter Act..  Union Yes   Nov-08-09 08:13 PM   #64 
  - women account for 80 percent of the U.S. fiction market.  Fire_Medic_Dave   Nov-08-09 09:47 PM   #74 
  - Behold the double standard  YoungAndOutraged   Nov-08-09 09:48 PM   #75 
  - has always been my intent and goal. nt  seabeyond   Nov-08-09 10:26 PM   #80 
  - Then get to work  YoungAndOutraged   Nov-08-09 10:36 PM   #83 
     - wtf... lol. wtf? i agree with you, no need to lessen another to achieve goal  seabeyond   Nov-08-09 11:19 PM   #96 
  - I'm all for knocking men down a few notches...  Xenotime   Nov-09-09 11:36 AM   #116 
  - Survival of the mentally fittest?  alittlelark   Nov-08-09 10:46 PM   #89 
  - I dunno  Mixopterus   Nov-08-09 10:58 PM   #91 
  - Same arguments were used against women back when they were at the bottom.  anonymous171   Nov-08-09 11:18 PM   #95 
  - In the end  Brooklyns_Finest   Nov-08-09 10:57 PM   #90 
  - Indeed  Mixopterus   Nov-08-09 11:00 PM   #92 
     - No  Brooklyns_Finest   Nov-08-09 11:41 PM   #97 
     - Ah  Mixopterus   Nov-08-09 11:45 PM   #98 
     - Who are you talking about?  redqueen   Nov-09-09 12:07 PM   #122 
        - I usually hate quoting myself, but...  Mixopterus   Nov-10-09 01:42 AM   #175 
  - I welcome this news and hope for more of the same.  Mithreal   Nov-09-09 04:21 AM   #99 
  - They're welcome to it. I, and many like me, I suspect, are choosing to "check out"  Romulox   Nov-09-09 11:02 AM   #102 
  - I have a friend with three adult male children, none of whom have a job  Lorien   Nov-09-09 11:29 AM   #115 
  - one of the hallmarks of poor communities is a high rate of unemployment  Hannah Bell   Nov-09-09 12:15 PM   #123 
  - I've lacked that drive and ambition for as long as I can remember  The2ndWheel   Nov-09-09 12:41 PM   #130 
  - Exactly. What is the purpose of work beyond merely earning another dollar?  Xenotime   Nov-09-09 01:06 PM   #145 
  - I think it is American (but not exclusively)  Spike89   Nov-09-09 01:41 PM   #151 
  - I, for one, welcome our new distaff overlords.  MilesColtrane   Nov-09-09 11:53 AM   #118 
  - you beat me to it... n/t  LanternWaste   Nov-09-09 12:21 PM   #125 
  - I for one, welcome...  LanternWaste   Nov-09-09 12:20 PM   #124 
  - The plot, hatched 36 years ago, to transfer the burden of work from men to women,  trackfan   Nov-09-09 12:57 PM   #139 
  - So... women didn't do any work until 36 years ago?  redqueen   Nov-09-09 12:58 PM   #140 
     - That's just when the plot was hatched.  trackfan   Nov-09-09 01:03 PM   #144 
     - He meant brain work.  imdjh   Nov-09-09 01:28 PM   #149 
        - Go stir shit elsewhere.  redqueen   Nov-09-09 01:49 PM   #153 
           - Your wish is my command, my queen.  imdjh   Nov-09-09 02:00 PM   #154 
  - soon we will have all men wearing speedos, thigh high boots and collars!  dugaresa   Nov-09-09 02:14 PM   #156 
  - Why the sarcasm?  Jamastiene   Nov-10-09 01:51 AM   #178 
  - easier to drink my beer with woman on top  Algorem   Nov-09-09 03:53 PM   #168 
  - scheduling Algorem to have his ass kicked  Skittles   Nov-09-09 09:09 PM   #174 
  - Pfft!  Jamastiene   Nov-10-09 01:53 AM   #179 

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