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Reply #50: UH..NOT SO MUCH... [View All]

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Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
ddeclue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-18-07 11:56 PM
Response to Reply #31
50. UH..NOT SO MUCH...
"Myth #2 - "We have an unalienable right to bear arms"

"The notion that gun owner "rights" are enshrined in the 2nd amendment and that there ought to be no limits on your right to "bear arms" is ridiculous on its face."


Who is claiming no limits? Can you cite it please.


Generally, its accepted that ARMS as used in talk of gun rights are small arms. Generally, its accepted by pro-gun proponents that the nfa and the brady background are fine. That is HARDLY no limits.

ANSWER: Every time ANYONE proposes making gun rights more limited, the NRA and their friends jump up and preach the Second Amendment to us as though it is an unlimited right when the Supreme Court has repeatedly held otherwise.


"Myth#4 - "If everyone else had a gun too, this wouldn't have happened...This is my favorite myth to bust."


Problem is, your not doing that. Your saying you are, but you really aren't. You don't even have the so called "myth" right. The stance is "allow those that wish it to be liscensed and trained for concealed carry". Conceal carry HAS saved lives. If you want to argue against THAT then fine, do so. But at least get it right.

WRONG: I demonstrated the Diallo example, the Reagan/Hinckley example and there's one right here in Orlando that I've included below where so called "trained" cops shot another cop and killed him by mistake.

"Myth#4 - "If everyone else had a gun too, this wouldn't have happened...This is my favorite myth to bust."

....You don't even have the so called "myth" right. T

NO- YOU ARE PUTTING WORDS INTO MY MOUTH. I HAVE THE MYTH RIGHT. I SAID WHAT I MEANT TO SAY AND WHAT THE RIGHT WINGERS ARE CLAIMING.

he stance is "allow those that wish it to be liscensed and trained for concealed carry".

NO THAT'S YOUR STANCE - NOT THE RIGHTWING.

Conceal carry HAS saved lives.


REPLY: OH BROTHER WHAT NONSENSE. YOU CAN'T PROVE THAT IT HASN'T TAKEN MORE THAN IT HAS SAVED OR THAT IT EVEN WORKS. IT IS NOT A DETERRENT SINCE THE BAD GUY CAN'T SEE YOUR CONCEALED WEAPON AND IT STILL DOES NOT PROVIDE YOU WITH THE ELEMENT OF SURPRISE WHEN THE BAD GUY DRAWS FIRST BEFORE YOU REALIZE WHAT IS GOING ON.



"It is laughable, then, to think that some average Joe with his own gun would be able to "take out the shooter".. especially with a concealed handgun as opposed to a prepositioned sniper rifle. He would be much more likely shoot some innocent bystander or himself by accident than to hit the shooter."

Heres people that ended 2 school shootings with privately owned firearms:

Google Joel Myrick, Mikael Gross or Tracy Bridges.

REPLY: YAWN - ANTECDOTAL EVIDENCE DOES NOT OVER COME 30,000 Gun deaths a year.

HERE'S ORLANDO'S FINEST KILLING THEIR OWN BY MISTAKE... I can match you antecdote for antecdote if you feel it necessary:

http://www.fanblogs.com/central_florida/005770.php

"However, tragedy struck outside before the game as a UCF police officer was killed by an an Orlando PD officer. According to TV reports this morning, Mario Jenkins was undercover assisting Division of Alcoholic Beverages and Tobacco agents in cracking down on underage drinking at tailgates before the game.

Various reports all confirm that he was surrounded by students who may have been throwing beer cans at him and that when he drew his weapon he was shot by the uniformed officer from another law enforcement agency. One television report mentioned something about rubber bullets being used to break up the crowd initially but other print reports make no mention of this. Other reports indicate that three shots were fired into the air by Jenkins as he sought assistance and that resulted in him being shot. Florida Department of Law Enforcement is investigating the incident. Later articles included eyewitness accounts."

REPLY: SO MUCH FOR CONCEALED CARRY TRAINING MEANING MUCH..IF THE COPS CAN'T GET IT RIGHT, WHY SHOULD I BELIEVE THAT YOU WILL?

And you'll be hardpressed to find real and true problems stemming from it.

REPLY: NO PROBLEMS? EXCEPT FOR THE 30,000 GUN DEATHS LAST YEAR???? GET REAL.

You surely must be able to come up with say 2 examples right? Just 2. Examples of where "the responding armed citizens kill everyone else including themselves". I bet you can't even find one.

You also assert "You will get shot anyways and then he (almost all such shooters are young men) will take your gun and then use it to shoot someone else."

I'll come up with 10 examples where this hasnt happened, for every ONE you come up with that does. You up for it?

REPLY:NOT GOING TO WASTE MY TIME ON YOUR ANTECDOTALS... I CAN MATCH YOURS WITH PLENTY OF EXAMPLES OF SO-CALLED "TRAINED" POLICE SCREWING UP AND KILLING PEOPLE BY MISTAKE - IT HAPPENS MORE OFTEN THAN YOUR EXCEPTIONS TO THE RULE.

Cops hate the "everybody should be carrying" mentality even worse than I do."

Thats funny. First, the mentality is NOT that everyone should carry. Second We have police here on DU that support concealed carry.

REPLY:YOU CAN ALWAYS FIND A FEW EXCEPTIONS TO THE RULE BUT THAT DOESN'T DISPROVE THE RULE.



I understand you want these type of incidents to end, and so do I believe it or not.....

REPLY: I HAVE MY FACTS STRAIGHT...YOU ARE JUST TRYING TO DISPUTE AND CONFUSE THE OBVIOUS WITH NRA SMOKE AND MIRRORS. YOU DIDN'T REFUTE ANYTHING.
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