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Reply #11: "The House Public Plan: Yes, It's Worth It" [View All]

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emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-07-09 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #1
11. "The House Public Plan: Yes, It's Worth It"

The House Public Plan: Yes, It's Worth It

Jacob S. Hacker is the Stanley B. Resor Professor of Political Science at Yale University, author of The Great Risk Shift: The New Economic Insecurity and the Decline of the American Dream, and an occasional contributor to The Treatment.

Diane Archer is the director of the Health Care Project at the Institute for America's Future and the founder and past president of the Medicare Rights Center.

How short memories are in Washington. A few weeks ago, when it looked possible that Nancy Pelosi could marshal enough Democratic support to create a robust public insurance option with rates tied to Medicares, everyone was talking about the big savings and reduced premiums that a series of estimates by the CBO showed this option could create. Then, the concern was that the public insurance plan would put private insurers out of business by using the governments bargaining power to drive too hard a bargain with providers, creating an un-level playing field.

Now, however, the punditocracy is abuzz about the latest CBO estimates that show that the public plan eventually embraced by Pelosi--one that would negotiate rates with providers, rather than base them on Medicares--might actually charge higher premiums than the average private plan. No matter that the CBO estimates clearly state that the higher projected premiums reflect its expectation that the public plan will disproportionately enroll less healthy Americans--which might be seen as a virtue, since these are folks private insurance tends to serve most poorly. And no matter that a subsequent CBO letter to the House stated that even a public plan with negotiated rates would still place downward pressure on the premiums of private plans. Suddenly, in the commentariat, the public plan isnt a fearsome predator. Its a complacent kitten. Initially not worth having because it would be too strong, its now, according to critics, not worth having because it would be too weak.

In truth, both the initial fears and current dismissals are overblown. The CBOs declining estimates of savings certainly make a strong case for having the public plan use modified Medicare rates, as we have long argued. Its a shame the House will not be considering a bill that shows how substantially a public plan can contribute to freeing up federal dollars to help Americans afford coverage. But we should keep in mind that the prime argument for the public plan has never been about a particular payment formula. It has been that a public insurance plan is vital as an institutional check on private plans, its role evolving to reflect the emerging weaknesses (or strengths) of regulated private competition. Put simply, health reform is much more likely to succeed with a public health insurance option, even one with negotiated rates, than if private insurers are left to run the show.

Let us start with the obvious: No one knows for sure the exact role that the public option will play. CBO may be correct that the public plan will attract a less healthy pool of enrollees, and that risk-adjustment (paying plans with higher-cost patients more) will not fully compensate for this. And it is surely correct that the public plan will have lower administrative costs than private plans. (It should be emphasized that if the public plan has higher premiums primarily because its attracting less healthy enrollees, then it is still reducing average premiums and hence federal subsidies for premiums. Thats because average premiums would be even higher if the people enrolled in the public plan enrolled in private plans. Thats what the CBOs more recent letter discussing downward pressure on private premiums implies.) But while the CBO estimates are rightly the authoritative source for Congress, they are by no means infallible. CBO has made clear that an unusually high level of uncertainty attaches to its analysis of the public plan.


The public plan is also critical to reform as a cost and quality benchmark, one that is particularly crucial if private premiums accelerate upwards. The insurance industry has threatened that premiums will skyrocket if an individual mandate is not tough enough. It may be an idle threat, but if a final reform bill ends up looking more like the Senate Finance bill than the House bill, it might not be. In most local markets, competition is likely to be anemic, and regulation of insurers inadequate. There will be little to prevent insurers from raising rates as they have threatened.

Having a public plan in place should also help keep down the rate of growth of health insurance premiums over time. Over the past twenty years, the public Medicare plan has had a substantially slower rate of growth than private insurance. The CBO report on the House bill states that private insurers are better at controlling utilization than a public plan would be. But, to date private insurers have failed to prove their value at cost control and demonstrated they have strong incentives to delay and deny needed care rather than drive efficiencies in the system.


In short, its no time to be despondent about the fate of the public insurance option. For sure, pegging rates to Medicare and obligating Medicare providers to accept these rates would be far preferable, and a public plan with negotiated rates may do less to keep the insurers honest and drive down costs. But its still immensely valuable to give Americans an out--another choice--to let the insurers feel the heat of not being the only game in town. The fierce and continuing opposition of the insurance industry suggests that they think that a public option will prove a serious counterweight in an increasingly consolidated private market. The overwrought pessimism of the pundit class should not aid them in their cause of protecting themselves from a public-spirited competitor.

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  -For the millionth time, THERE IS NO PUBLIC OPTION debbierlus  Nov-07-09 02:49 PM   #0 
  - Unrecommending won't stop the truth from being true.  debbierlus   Nov-07-09 02:51 PM   #1 
  - "The House Public Plan: Yes, It's Worth It"  emulatorloo   Nov-07-09 03:03 PM   #11 
  - It possibly is a step but it is not a reform. It's like saying we are going to build warehouses for  Go2Peace   Nov-07-09 07:03 PM   #80 
  - "we are just getting another "respite" while the same whoring goes on in the back rooms..."  dysfunctional press   Nov-08-09 12:21 AM   #140 
  - When in doubt get philosophical  PATRICK   Nov-07-09 08:45 PM   #107 
     - The ONLY option coming from this bill is that it opens the door for gov, involvlment  bjobotts   Nov-08-09 02:36 AM   #154 
        - That's it. Maybe sometime in the future it can be expanded but avails nothing now.  bjobotts   Nov-08-09 02:37 AM   #155 
           - It was the blue dogs who sank a 'robust' PO.They were well paid for their efforts.  bjobotts   Nov-08-09 02:38 AM   #156 
              - Without the PO there is no real reform only an exchange of benefits which all favor private ins  bjobotts   Nov-08-09 02:41 AM   #157 
                 - Once again the corporatocracy thru its army of lobbyists told us what we are "allowed" to have.  bjobotts   Nov-08-09 02:42 AM   #158 
                    - while the puppets dangling from their strings convince us how great this is.  bjobotts   Nov-08-09 02:45 AM   #159 
                       - You couldn't make that one post?  Le Taz Hot   Nov-08-09 10:09 AM   #185 
  - Deleted sub-thread  Name removed   Nov-07-09 03:30 PM   #27 
  - K&R  Cleita   Nov-07-09 02:52 PM   #2 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Nov-07-09 02:57 PM   #5 
  - That's untrue.  Cleita   Nov-07-09 02:58 PM   #6 
  - "What Social Security Teaches Us About Health Care"  emulatorloo   Nov-07-09 03:00 PM   #8 
  - We aren't talking about Social Security but Medicare, a successful health  Cleita   Nov-07-09 03:04 PM   #12 
  - The point is Social Security wasn't a "perfect" bill either, but it was expanded out  emulatorloo   Nov-07-09 03:06 PM   #16 
     - If you believe that, I have a nice bridge to sell to you in San Francisco.  Cleita   Nov-07-09 03:23 PM   #20 
        - The same kind of resistance met Social Security and Medicare. Reagan and his ilk  emulatorloo   Nov-07-09 03:27 PM   #24 
           - They have to or they would never be elected into office again.  Cleita   Nov-07-09 03:34 PM   #28 
           - Those Medicare "Advantage" Plans  TicketyBoo   Nov-08-09 12:53 AM   #146 
              - And doesn't the government PAY private insurers to run MA?  zoff   Nov-08-09 04:33 AM   #164 
              - The Medicare Part B  TicketyBoo   Nov-08-09 09:32 AM   #179 
              - Yes, my husband got caught up in one and it almost cost him his life  Cleita   Nov-08-09 03:01 PM   #208 
           - AND, how the fuck exactly, can they NOT defend it? Don't be an............  pattmarty   Nov-07-09 07:24 PM   #85 
  - Social Security has always been a government program, administered by the government.  Hello_Kitty   Nov-07-09 04:40 PM   #64 
  - She is against REAL HCR, and is for FANTASY HCR.  tridim   Nov-07-09 03:00 PM   #9 
     - Fantasy HCR like Medicare for everyone?  Cleita   Nov-07-09 03:05 PM   #14 
     - Wow.  abelenkpe   Nov-08-09 10:23 AM   # 
        - Well said. Far too many on this board lack the intellectual  WestSeattle2   Nov-08-09 02:54 PM   #205 
  - Don't you dare say such a thing to me.  debbierlus   Nov-07-09 03:01 PM   #10 
  - I can say whatever I want about you.  tridim   Nov-07-09 03:04 PM   #13 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Nov-07-09 03:19 PM   #19 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Nov-07-09 03:24 PM   #21 
  - The insurance industry WROTE it - as did big pharm - a very relevant post from July  debbierlus   Nov-07-09 03:50 PM   #42 
  - The insurance industry is a very seasoned bunch when it comes to  ooglymoogly   Nov-08-09 12:37 AM   #144 
  - "I noticed you didn't counter ONE of the arguments I made about the public option"  bobbolink   Nov-07-09 03:45 PM   #35 
  - debbie  placton   Nov-07-09 08:40 PM   #106 
  - Oh please. Take five. Are we obligated to love this bill?  tblue   Nov-07-09 03:24 PM   #22 
  - Of course not. Never said that.  tridim   Nov-07-09 03:25 PM   #23 
  - Yes, we are obligated to LOVE whatever tridim dictates that we love.  bobbolink   Nov-07-09 03:46 PM   #36 
     - Please point out where I said that.  tridim   Nov-07-09 03:49 PM   #39 
        - You've repeated it several times.  bobbolink   Nov-07-09 03:51 PM   #43 
           - Now you're just lying.  tridim   Nov-07-09 03:52 PM   #44 
              - I've had it with your name-calling and your attacks.  bobbolink   Nov-07-09 03:56 PM   #46 
                 - Alert me. I certainly don't like her position, that should be obvious.  tridim   Nov-07-09 04:00 PM   #52 
                    - One look at all your posts on this thread SHOW your intentions very clearly.  bobbolink   Nov-07-09 04:04 PM   #57 
                    - It isn't a vendetta just because you claim it is.  tridim   Nov-07-09 04:05 PM   #58 
                       - You think DU should be a very small tent where your minority views can be imposed on others.  Better Believe It   Nov-07-09 04:10 PM   #61 
                          - This thread is about HCR and I want it to pass, yes.  tridim   Nov-07-09 04:11 PM   #62 
                             - Do you think a majority favor a bailout of the insurance industry or do they favor  Better Believe It   Nov-07-09 06:29 PM   #76 
                             - Hmmm  maryf   Nov-07-09 08:17 PM   # 
                                - wrong place  bobbolink   Nov-08-09 08:20 PM   #211 
                    - The point she is making is that you are following ideology rather then thinking  digidigido   Nov-08-09 12:11 AM   #138 
                    - She has a right to vent her frustrations with the Democratic "majority"  eilen   Nov-08-09 07:25 AM   #173 
                    - Funny, you say pessimism and defeatism. I say it looks like the TRUTH.  peacetalksforall   Nov-08-09 11:22 AM   #195 
  - No, you actually CAN'T. The rules apply to you, the same as to everyone else.  bobbolink   Nov-07-09 03:44 PM   #33 
  - AND, you will be labeled for what you are, naive.  pattmarty   Nov-07-09 07:27 PM   #88 
  - Damn straight...  regnaD kciN   Nov-07-09 09:13 PM   #115 
  - Nothing will be added to it for decades.  Ken Burch   Nov-08-09 02:14 AM   #153 
  - Do you work for the insurance lobby?  spiritual_gunfighter   Nov-08-09 10:14 AM   #187 
  - I support a Democratic HCR reform bill too.  The Gunslinger   Nov-08-09 08:24 PM   #212 
  - I prefer to quote Abraham Lincoln.  SandWalker1984   Nov-07-09 11:58 PM   #136 
  - Excellent quote. I'll have to remember that one. n/t  Kermitt Gribble   Nov-08-09 10:49 AM   #190 
  - Bravo.  emilyg   Nov-08-09 01:16 AM   #152 
  - what a ridiculous lie.  inna   Nov-07-09 03:36 PM   #29 
     - I suggest alerting.  bobbolink   Nov-07-09 03:48 PM   #37 
        - So you're saying she's NOT against the Democratic HCR bill?  tridim   Nov-07-09 03:54 PM   #45 
        - YOU are attacking with personal slams, and you know that is against the rules.  bobbolink   Nov-07-09 03:57 PM   #49 
        - Unrecing a defeatist post is not against the rules.  tridim   Nov-07-09 04:02 PM   #54 
           - I'm sure you're aware that your personal attacks ARE against the rules.  bobbolink   Nov-07-09 04:05 PM   #59 
        - she's not against it because it's Democratic  GreenArrow   Nov-07-09 09:55 PM   #126 
           - Amen!  SandWalker1984   Nov-08-09 12:03 AM   #137 
        - It's not purely personal.  enlightenment   Nov-07-09 03:56 PM   #47 
           - Thank you. Have you alerted?  bobbolink   Nov-07-09 03:58 PM   #50 
           - Got any proof?  tridim   Nov-07-09 04:03 PM   #56 
  - I rec'd too. And we are winning here.  freddie mertz   Nov-08-09 06:09 AM   #166 
  - At this point we need a foundaton on which to build.  Skidmore   Nov-07-09 02:52 PM   #3 
  - Krugman, Dean and Grayson say it should be passed.  tabatha   Nov-07-09 03:05 PM   #15 
  - When I mentioned that yesteday I was called "stupid" and a "kool-aide drinker"  emulatorloo   Nov-07-09 03:07 PM   #18 
  - Well we've got to throw someone under the bus.  Cant trust em   Nov-07-09 04:46 PM   #66 
  - Only because they see no other alternative. Not because it is good legislation, but because by  Go2Peace   Nov-07-09 07:08 PM   #81 
  - I was listening to a discussion on the local progressive talk station this evening  dflprincess   Nov-07-09 09:18 PM   #118 
  - Grayson is a partisan tool.  DutchLiberal   Nov-07-09 08:15 PM   #99 
  - Dean is now a shrill of the biodrug compainies. Grayson talks  joeycola   Nov-07-09 09:06 PM   #111 
  - Great...our new villains: Dean and Grayson...  regnaD kciN   Nov-07-09 09:16 PM   #117 
  - They must have been trying to use sarcasm?  Go2Peace   Nov-07-09 11:24 PM   #131 
  - What???? Are you a freeper in disguise?????  Go2Peace   Nov-07-09 11:20 PM   #130 
  - not to mention Weiner- who fought passionately for the public option  BREMPRO   Nov-08-09 12:31 AM   #141 
  - Building on greeding insurance compainies is NOT a sound foundation!!  joeycola   Nov-07-09 09:05 PM   #110 
  - Thank you  DJ13   Nov-07-09 02:52 PM   #4 
  - And the other options are?  AndyA   Nov-07-09 03:00 PM   #7 
  - +1  tabatha   Nov-07-09 03:06 PM   #17 
  - Agree. Build upon the HCR, as we see the things that need  Sukie   Nov-07-09 03:27 PM   #25 
  - The alternative is to stop accepting utter crap and actually fight for real reform.  debbierlus   Nov-07-09 03:27 PM   #26 
  - Then how exactly do you suggest we refer to this current  Fire1   Nov-07-09 07:35 PM   #91 
  - One option you forgot ......  Stinky The Clown   Nov-07-09 03:37 PM   #31 
  - .  bobbolink   Nov-07-09 03:50 PM   #41 
  - +1  Individualist   Nov-07-09 04:08 PM   #60 
  - +1....  mike_c   Nov-07-09 04:56 PM   #71 
  - Yep. Take our scraps and bones and be thankful, thankful! (n/t)  bread_and_roses   Nov-08-09 06:30 AM   #168 
  - +1 nt  phasma ex machina   Nov-08-09 11:17 AM   #193 
  - abort this crap and start over with Universal Heath Care.  inna   Nov-07-09 03:39 PM   #32 
  - yep  dana_b   Nov-07-09 04:56 PM   #70 
  - +10  kath   Nov-08-09 12:34 AM   #142 
  - True, it is a "lesser evil" bill". There is a risk though, that it will actually be bad for us in  Go2Peace   Nov-07-09 07:17 PM   #82 
  - +10. n/t  Fire1   Nov-07-09 07:31 PM   #89 
  - We might have been better off if they had done nothing  dflprincess   Nov-07-09 09:14 PM   #116 
  - Here is a clue...  Andronex   Nov-08-09 03:02 AM   #161 
  - or 5. Do it right.  The Gunslinger   Nov-08-09 08:38 PM   #214 
  - This "no public option" will save me $25,000/yr  HughMoran   Nov-07-09 03:36 PM   #30 
  - Yeah, the crappy "No Public Option" is my only choice, and can't happen soon enough.  Ikonoklast   Nov-07-09 03:49 PM   #40 
  - It's bad enough the Republicans and insurance criminals are against this  HughMoran   Nov-07-09 03:59 PM   #51 
  - Not true, Republicans are against anything. But insurance is no longer fighting this  Go2Peace   Nov-07-09 07:20 PM   #83 
  - "Claim a moral victory" and then get back to doing what we REALLY enjoy...  regnaD kciN   Nov-07-09 09:20 PM   #119 
  - Yes, dogs that we are we should beg for scraps. Imagine if Europeans took this approach?  Go2Peace   Nov-07-09 11:34 PM   #133 
  - "I'll trust Dr. Dean and Paul Krugman...  GreenArrow   Nov-07-09 10:00 PM   #128 
     - But they have a public track record, and history of opinions.  Ikonoklast   Nov-08-09 10:09 AM   #186 
  - Debbie apparently doesn't care about real people like us.  tridim   Nov-07-09 03:57 PM   #48 
  - Yes, Debbie doesn't care about people like us  HughMoran   Nov-07-09 04:02 PM   #55 
     - She has become my new symbol for the DU that I just can't be a part of  Cant trust em   Nov-07-09 04:45 PM   #65 
  - Do tell....How will that work?  debbierlus   Nov-07-09 04:48 PM   #68 
  - Currently $40k/year at small company  HughMoran   Nov-07-09 05:03 PM   #74 
     - Does your current policy pay 70% of expenses, that is the reference policy...  slipslidingaway   Nov-07-09 08:33 PM   #104 
  - but nothing really happens until 2013 nt  maryf   Nov-07-09 08:20 PM   #102 
  - Not true  HughMoran   Nov-07-09 08:36 PM   #105 
  - If you are among the tiny % who will benefit, I'm glad for you, but that does not make it a good  bread_and_roses   Nov-08-09 06:55 AM   #169 
  - Can you explain that?  HereSince1628   Nov-08-09 07:17 AM   #172 
  - +1  Coyote_Bandit   Nov-07-09 03:45 PM   #34 
  - They are bought and sold.  juno jones   Nov-07-09 09:08 PM   #112 
     - You're right  Coyote_Bandit   Nov-08-09 08:54 AM   #177 
  - Try to stay positive. It's far from universal healthcare but if people like  Shagbark Hickory   Nov-07-09 03:49 PM   #38 
  - Better than nothing.  enlightenment   Nov-07-09 04:01 PM   #53 
  - It's Romneycare.  roamer65   Nov-07-09 04:15 PM   #63 
  - I thought it was Pelosicare  emulatorloo   Nov-07-09 04:51 PM   #69 
  - most people who aren't as informed as  dana_b   Nov-07-09 04:47 PM   #67 
  - Only an idiot who hasn't been paying attention would think they qualify for the PO  HughMoran   Nov-07-09 07:38 PM   #92 
  - Change we can pretend has happened.  Karmadillo   Nov-07-09 04:58 PM   #72 
  - Ding ding ding ding! It is TOTALLY "change we can pretend has happened".  kath   Nov-08-09 12:38 AM   #145 
  - agreed, 100 percent....  mike_c   Nov-07-09 04:59 PM   #73 
  - Sorry, but YOU'RE WRONG.  johnaries   Nov-07-09 05:12 PM   #75 
  - +100, but don't waste your time  berni_mccoy   Nov-07-09 06:53 PM   #78 
  - +1 more  lumberjack_jeff   Nov-07-09 07:25 PM   #86 
  - She repeatedly calls her lie "the truth"  HughMoran   Nov-07-09 07:32 PM   #90 
  - Sounds like a public option to me! n/t  Fire1   Nov-07-09 07:39 PM   #93 
  - Can employers choose not to provide a plan?  patrice   Nov-07-09 07:57 PM   #96 
  - Open to anyone who qualifies is not open to everyone  Raineyb   Nov-08-09 11:34 AM   #196 
  - LBJ twisted arms to do the right thing. Rahmbama twists arms just so they  change_notfinetuning   Nov-07-09 06:52 PM   #77 
  - congress sucks n/t  2Design   Nov-07-09 07:03 PM   #79 
  - Cheer up emo kid, you're makeup is running. n/t  lumberjack_jeff   Nov-07-09 07:23 PM   #84 
  - bwahahaha +1  kid a   Nov-07-09 07:41 PM   #94 
  - Really Shading The Truth  colsohlibgal   Nov-07-09 07:27 PM   #87 
  - But, remember, all the payoffs "our" side got will help them get re-elected.  Tierra_y_Libertad   Nov-07-09 07:48 PM   #95 
  - I might consider your opinion if your history wasn't so pocked with negative posts.  Avalux   Nov-07-09 08:00 PM   #97 
  - Exactly  HughMoran   Nov-07-09 08:18 PM   #101 
  - It reminds me a bit of the gang...  regnaD kciN   Nov-07-09 09:12 PM   #114 
  - Reality as negativity.  debbierlus   Nov-07-09 09:52 PM   #125 
     - In your world. n/t  Avalux   Nov-07-09 09:59 PM   #127 
  - It's good to see that some people haven't stopped thinking...  DutchLiberal   Nov-07-09 08:13 PM   #98 
  - Lie  HughMoran   Nov-07-09 08:17 PM   #100 
  - Ad hominem attack, nt  maryf   Nov-07-09 10:10 PM   #129 
  - This is simply not accurate  ProSense   Nov-07-09 08:26 PM   #103 
  - Option advocates offer no information on who will create and run the options  slipslidingaway   Nov-07-09 08:57 PM   #108 
     - Not true  ProSense   Nov-07-09 09:11 PM   #113 
        - Where are the details as to how these options will be set up...  slipslidingaway   Nov-07-09 09:21 PM   #120 
        - 2013?  abelenkpe   Nov-08-09 10:35 AM   #189 
  - I Agree and I Support You - I Happen to Be a Liberal First, a Democrat... Last  theFrankFactor   Nov-07-09 09:03 PM   #109 
  - It's like Bill Maher said on Letterman the other night  dflprincess   Nov-07-09 09:23 PM   #122 
  - Preach it Frank - you know, like the Democrats should be doing  slay   Nov-08-09 01:11 AM   #151 
  - K&R!  juno jones   Nov-07-09 09:22 PM   #121 
  - Great post!  kath   Nov-08-09 03:03 PM   #209 
     - Thanks :) n/t  juno jones   Nov-08-09 08:32 PM   #213 
  - A public option or a "real" public option?  many a good man   Nov-07-09 09:39 PM   #123 
  - For the millionth-and-one time, you're full of crap...  regnaD kciN   Nov-07-09 09:47 PM   #124 
  - K&R for every person who doesn't buy the propaganda  mullard12ax7   Nov-07-09 11:33 PM   #132 
  - debbierlus, Thanks for fighting for Democratic principles. This so called reform is  John Q. Citizen   Nov-07-09 11:35 PM   #134 
  - The Cake Is A Lie! n/t  Ian David   Nov-07-09 11:36 PM   #135 
  - Everyone that thinks this bill is great should read Paul Craig Roberts' latest  SandWalker1984   Nov-08-09 12:13 AM   #139 
  - Great reply SandWalker1984 - I wish I could recommend your reply  slay   Nov-08-09 01:04 AM   #149 
  - Great Post, Thanks  theFrankFactor   Nov-08-09 10:00 AM   #182 
  - Really excellent post. This definitely should be a separate thread so I  snagglepuss   Nov-08-09 10:23 AM   #188 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Nov-08-09 12:35 AM   #143 
  - Thank you!  slay   Nov-08-09 01:00 AM   #147 
  - +1 Amen!  RufusTFirefly   Nov-08-09 02:53 AM   #160 
  - Thank you for not giving up and speaking truth to all the lies and disinfo here on DU!  earth mom   Nov-08-09 01:03 AM   #148 
  - 143+ recs in short order and still climbing to the top.  chill_wind   Nov-08-09 01:07 AM   #150 
  - On the first step of the journey, get in the saddle or shove the saddle up your nose.  lonestarnot   Nov-08-09 03:29 AM   #162 
  - They've passed a stimulus bill for private insurance. Recommended.  Vidar   Nov-08-09 03:34 AM   #163 
  - Yup, it would seem so.  Major Hogwash   Nov-08-09 05:33 AM   #165 
  - Exactly. Like everything about the US, it's illusory, yet reinforced by millions who NEED to believe  Echo In Light   Nov-08-09 07:06 AM   #171 
  - I feel this bill will turn out more positive for people than they realize and open more folks up to  ProgressOnTheMove   Nov-08-09 06:30 AM   #167 
  - This bill will mandate insurance purchase instead of providing a service ie. the  midnight   Nov-08-09 07:04 AM   #170 
  - Same crap we ha have in MA. - and my insurance went up 12% this year.  geckosfeet   Nov-08-09 07:33 AM   #174 
  - Bullshit! It's not single-payer. FYI News headline: "Health care bill passes with public option"  ClarkUSA   Nov-08-09 07:52 AM   #175 
  - If it stops the industry shenanigans re: pre-ex conditions, then it's still worthwhile.  Jester Messiah   Nov-08-09 08:08 AM   #176 
  - Wrong, wrong, and wrong.  pnwmom   Nov-08-09 09:22 AM   #178 
  - It's a solution worse than nothing.  Chan790   Nov-08-09 09:38 AM   #180 
  - We fell for the old Good Cop-Bad Cop routine  kpominville   Nov-08-09 09:47 AM   #181 
  - Who's "we"? Some of us didn't. Never did. Thank you, debbie! n/t  RufusTFirefly   Nov-08-09 12:50 PM   #199 
  - US  abelenkpe   Nov-08-09 10:05 AM   #183 
  - It IS a public option. Maybe a sham of a P.O., but since it's paid for by the govt, it's a P.O.  Honeycombe8   Nov-08-09 10:05 AM   #184 
  - I Can't believe people are happy with that piece of shit  fascisthunter   Nov-08-09 10:54 AM   #191 
  - This IS exactly why propoganda exists and public schools are defunded and people are paid minimum  glitch   Nov-08-09 11:08 AM   #192 
  - Exactly like I've said all along:  gorfle   Nov-08-09 11:21 AM   #194 
  - Exactly! The Orwellian nightmare continues  Stumbler   Nov-08-09 12:05 PM   #197 
  - Right on!...The path we are on is a recipe for BACKLASH. . . . :  Faryn Balyncd   Nov-08-09 12:46 PM   #198 
  - It should be called a private option  rollingrock   Nov-08-09 01:29 PM   #200 
  - K&R  pleah   Nov-08-09 01:35 PM   #201 
  - K&R  IndianaGreen   Nov-08-09 01:44 PM   #202 
  - pround to be rec #241...k&r  NotGivingUp   Nov-08-09 02:33 PM   #203 
  - K&R  caseymoz   Nov-08-09 02:43 PM   #204 
  - Yeah but there is a mandatory abortion rider  Generator   Nov-08-09 02:56 PM   #206 
  - Your Health Care Plan Just Got Taxed  atomicweeder   Nov-08-09 02:58 PM   #207 
  - Thanks for the great thread, it is very difficult to watch this happen.  Jefferson23   Nov-08-09 04:00 PM   #210 

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