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Reply #20: Taking it as Vermont vs. NYC misses the point [View All]

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caraher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-24-09 08:16 AM
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20. Taking it as Vermont vs. NYC misses the point
Really, this is an indictment of the suburbs. Of course NYC can't feed itself, and of course people in rural areas - where food is grown - will have a larger per-capita carbon footprint due to travel. We need both great cities and the countryside to function as a society.

The killer is the car culture that militates against compact communities and causes intrinsically wasteful sprawl. There's no sound reason for too many suburbs. Their growth comes from a system of perverse incentives - the pyramid scheme of the real estate market, the "white flight" that gutted many cities. We need to think more intentionally about how we ought to live. Noting the very real positives of New York City - available public transit, compact neighborhoods where one can meet one's needs largely on foot - can help us develop in saner ways moving forward.
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  -Why New York City is Greener Than Vermont cali  Sep-24-09 06:00 AM   #0 
  - Well, that was depressing  tavalon   Sep-24-09 06:05 AM   #1 
  - it's also utterly ridiculous  cali   Sep-24-09 06:11 AM   #2 
  - This has been well known in the environmental field for a long time  HamdenRice   Sep-24-09 06:25 AM   #3 
  - perhaps so, but he forgot some important facts.  cali   Sep-24-09 06:33 AM   #5 
     - A few stats about Vermont  MichellesBFF   Sep-24-09 06:42 AM   #6 
     - One of the states with the fewest number of people has a low total amount of energy consumption?  taterguy   Sep-24-09 06:49 AM   #8 
     - Vermont has very little "unspoiled" landscape  HamdenRice   Sep-24-09 06:57 AM   #9 
        - that clearly depends on your definition of unspoiled. Your definition  cali   Sep-24-09 07:00 AM   #11 
           - Facts are facts. The claims made in the article are uncontroversial  HamdenRice   Sep-24-09 07:07 AM   #14 
              - uh, wrong. you seem to have a very odd idea of Vermont  cali   Sep-24-09 07:30 AM   #17 
                 - Urbanization is one of the biggest trends on the planet  HamdenRice   Sep-24-09 08:17 AM   #21 
  - Does mildew contribute to the green hue? nt  Obamanaut   Sep-24-09 06:33 AM   #4 
  - how about all the farms in NYC? are they growing all that food in the subways tubes...  islandmkl   Sep-24-09 06:47 AM   #7 
  - Probably much lower than the footprint of food shipped to the burbs  HamdenRice   Sep-24-09 07:04 AM   #13 
  - you might be right...but "bringing all that food to one place..." is not exactly valid...  islandmkl   Sep-24-09 07:12 AM   #15 
     - The food in rural areas has to travel the same distances  HamdenRice   Sep-24-09 07:18 AM   #16 
  - Well said  customerserviceguy   Sep-24-09 07:34 AM   #19 
     - Behold! The Fro-Yo trash  Libertas1776   Sep-24-09 08:38 AM   #26 
        - More than made up for by ...  HamdenRice   Sep-24-09 08:51 AM   #27 
           - Did those foodstuffs  customerserviceguy   Sep-24-09 03:57 PM   #28 
              - Looks like the environmental experts disagree with you  HamdenRice   Sep-24-09 04:33 PM   #29 
                 - It all depends on what the "experts" are looking at  customerserviceguy   Sep-24-09 05:11 PM   #30 
                    - I'm assuming that over two decades, the environmental experts have got the ...  HamdenRice   Sep-24-09 05:28 PM   #31 
                       - And this is a Time magazine article  customerserviceguy   Sep-24-09 06:09 PM   #32 
  - So,  Libertas1776   Sep-24-09 06:59 AM   #10 
  - Manhattan is a small part of New York  HamdenRice   Sep-24-09 08:24 AM   #23 
     - "You don't need a lot of money to live in the outer boroughs."  Libertas1776   Sep-24-09 08:32 AM   #25 
  - Some good points, but really off in others (like the dismissiveness about "buy local food")...  JHB   Sep-24-09 07:04 AM   #12 
  - There are energy economies of scale in NY that Vermont does not have. Cities are good. nt  Captain Hilts   Sep-24-09 07:33 AM   #18 
  - Taking it as Vermont vs. NYC misses the point  caraher   Sep-24-09 08:16 AM   #20 
  - +1  HamdenRice   Sep-24-09 08:27 AM   #24 
  - I have just bought a book called "Green Metropolis" making this same point.  Odin2005   Sep-24-09 08:23 AM   #22 

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