dugaresa
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Tue Sep-22-09 11:33 AM
Response to Original message |
| 84. You seem to be only focused on racism in the US, however this is a problem that goes back probably |
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Edited on Tue Sep-22-09 11:33 AM by dugaresa
before recorded history.
Something in human nature seems to trigger racial, class or religious superiority.
The Egyptians, Sumerians, Romans, Greeks, Europeans, all have a history of slavery, viewing other groups as being inferior or viewing other folks's beliefs as bizarre or worth contempt.
It isn't something that just happened.
Jews in Europe were reviled for their religion. They were made to live in ghettos in some cities and were in some cases expelled or fled for their lives from countries like Spain. An entire group of productive citizens left a country for fear of their lives and because another religious group viewed them as a threat.
In most cases if you research deeply the threat is either related to money, power or irrational fear.
Let us examine the case of the Jews.
Well they were a group that didn't mingle, they didn't like intermarriage (neither did christians) and they kept to themselves outside business matters. But does that really make them worthy of disrespect? Not in my book.
They looked like other folks in the regions they settled in. So clearly it wasn't their skin color.
Ooooh but go back far enough and you find that the Jews did loan money. Why? Because early Christian doctrine dictated that Usury was forbidden. Loaning money wasn't a money making operation for Christians so Jews were smart to exploit it. However being in ownership of people's debts, can make you the bad guy even if you aren't. Then when some smart Christians realized that the usury laws were dumb, they got rid of them or worked their way around it and then they viewed the Jews as competitors. Is it likely that they used religious differences to help them demonize and dehumanize the Jews. Before you know it you have horrible renditions of Jews in literature and you can manipulate your fellow Christians by giving them a group of people to hate, all because it suits your business purposes. Heck you can even blame them for the Plague while your at it.
Chomsky pointed out some of these very issues in his People's History book. Indentured servants and slaves started to mix, because they saw that they were in a similar situation. Before you know it the slave owners realize that they can't have their slaves thinking they have options and they don't want them mingling with the folks who will eventually be free. So they set up class divides and provide options the the white slaves (indentured servants)can only have and create barriers to make sure that there is truly a division (however made up) to help them keep their unhealthy hold over those folks and keep the slaves in check.
Something about human nature does this, however unhealthy it is and we can't seem to shake it. We really should but history has shown it has been with us for a long long time.
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| -The Causes of Racism |
Time for change |
Sep-19-09 10:50 PM |
#0 |
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The only way these people are racist is that they allowed to racist |
Rosa Luxemburg |
Sep-19-09 10:54 PM |
#1 |
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Laws are for when it's close to impossible to remove a certain behavior otherwise.... |
BlooInBloo |
Sep-19-09 10:59 PM |
#3 |
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Not looking for trouble here,but the race relations here are |
virgogal |
Sep-19-09 11:21 PM |
#8 |
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The original post mentions Nazism and Stalinism, so I would assume that |
blue neen |
Sep-19-09 11:31 PM |
#10 |
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Fuck all that. Just wait for them to die, and stop making new ones. |
BlooInBloo |
Sep-19-09 10:56 PM |
#2 |
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Yeah, that's a good one. |
Rude Dog |
Sep-19-09 11:18 PM |
#6 |
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The "new ones" I refered to are a *sociological* entity, namely bigots... |
BlooInBloo |
Sep-19-09 11:21 PM |
#7 |
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This post seems to imply that whites are the racists and blacks are |
virgogal |
Sep-19-09 11:01 PM |
#4 |
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Our group is #1 |
izquierdista |
Sep-19-09 11:16 PM |
#5 |
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Where do you get that idea? |
Time for change |
Sep-19-09 11:43 PM |
#13 |
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black social hierarchy? |
Holy Moly |
Sep-20-09 12:47 PM |
#36 |
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I've also read and heard |
NOLALady |
Sep-20-09 09:56 PM |
#64 |
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google "paper bag test" |
DatManFromNawlins |
Sep-21-09 01:50 AM |
#72 |
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I don't have to google. |
NOLALady |
Sep-21-09 02:05 AM |
#73 |
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Very thoughtful post. |
blue neen |
Sep-19-09 11:22 PM |
#9 |
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Thank you... |
Time for change |
Sep-20-09 04:53 PM |
#52 |
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Don't underestimate competition |
TxRider |
Sep-19-09 11:32 PM |
#11 |
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I have observed a different phenomenon on that subject. |
blue neen |
Sep-19-09 11:42 PM |
#12 |
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Certainly, those types will use anything to deflect their inabilities |
TxRider |
Sep-20-09 10:38 AM |
#34 |
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I personally have been discriminated against in school and on the job. |
blue neen |
Sep-20-09 03:23 PM |
#50 |
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Yes it is a shame |
TxRider |
Sep-20-09 03:34 PM |
#51 |
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You're saying racism is fueled by affirmative action. |
NOLALady |
Sep-20-09 10:09 PM |
#65 |
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White people got the most benefit out of affirmative action. |
Solomon |
Sep-21-09 07:37 AM |
#78 |
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They don't blame black people for affirmative action |
TxRider |
Sep-21-09 08:15 AM |
#80 |
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I wouldn't know, I was not an adult in the 1960's. |
TxRider |
Sep-21-09 08:10 AM |
#79 |
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I wasn't an adult in the 60s, but I was aware of racism. |
NOLALady |
Sep-22-09 10:52 AM |
#83 |
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You make good points, but there is an error in |
Solomon |
Sep-20-09 01:14 AM |
#14 |
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I note the need to feel superior as just one of several causes |
Time for change |
Sep-20-09 07:25 AM |
#22 |
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Hm-m. Wondered if black slaveholders felt a "need to feel superior" to other blacks . . . |
Petrushka |
Sep-21-09 01:49 AM |
#71 |
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I'm certain all of the slaveholders, black and white, felt superior |
NOLALady |
Sep-21-09 02:30 AM |
#74 |
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Darnit! I just typed a lon-n-ng reply to your post and lost it! Anyway . . . |
Petrushka |
Sep-21-09 05:24 AM |
#75 |
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Hope that stuff makes you feel better. |
Solomon |
Sep-21-09 07:35 AM |
#77 |
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Hm-m. "Better" than . . .? |
Petrushka |
Sep-21-09 03:43 PM |
#82 |
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Oh dear... Did you GO THERE??? |
Karenina |
Sep-20-09 09:56 AM |
#33 |
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LOL You know it. |
Solomon |
Sep-20-09 01:10 PM |
#37 |
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this is one of the best descriptions |
Blue_Roses |
Sep-22-09 11:53 AM |
#86 |
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Another key aspect |
bleever |
Sep-20-09 01:46 AM |
#15 |
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Yes |
Time for change |
Sep-20-09 11:39 AM |
#35 |
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The African ancestors of most African Americans |
NOLALady |
Sep-20-09 09:47 PM |
#63 |
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+1. |
bleever |
Sep-21-09 01:04 AM |
#69 |
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Actually, racism is an ideology... |
MellowDem |
Sep-20-09 01:46 AM |
#16 |
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In other words, you don't consider racism a type of bigotry? |
Time for change |
Sep-20-09 07:28 AM |
#23 |
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Racism itself is specifically an ideology... |
MellowDem |
Sep-20-09 09:21 AM |
#31 |
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I strongly disagree with your assertion that the ONLY cause of racism is ignorance |
Time for change |
Sep-20-09 09:35 AM |
#32 |
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I agree with you... |
MellowDem |
Sep-20-09 07:18 PM |
#54 |
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It's sometimes very difficult to differentiate what a person really believes vs. what they want to |
Time for change |
Sep-20-09 07:31 PM |
#55 |
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Was it not a common belief by the military hierarchy early in WWII that |
indepat |
Sep-20-09 07:50 PM |
#56 |
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I'm certain that was a common belief |
Time for change |
Sep-20-09 08:06 PM |
#57 |
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Insanely long to state the obvious. |
ddeclue |
Sep-20-09 01:53 AM |
#17 |
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Even that explanation is too long: |
Czar One |
Sep-20-09 08:34 AM |
#30 |
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Fear of what? |
NOLALady |
Sep-20-09 09:24 PM |
#62 |
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I don't see why |
Time for change |
Sep-20-09 08:58 PM |
#61 |
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The elite teach racism because discrimination is profitable for them . . . |
defendandprotect |
Sep-20-09 02:00 AM |
#18 |
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Humanity is the cause of racism. |
proteus_lives |
Sep-20-09 02:21 AM |
#19 |
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how can you |
Aragorn |
Sep-20-09 06:39 AM |
#20 |
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For one thing |
Time for change |
Sep-20-09 07:47 AM |
#26 |
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Good post but I don't see how we discuss the causes of racism |
malaise |
Sep-20-09 07:12 AM |
#21 |
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I did include an economic component |
Time for change |
Sep-20-09 07:33 AM |
#24 |
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True but you explicitly mentioned |
malaise |
Sep-20-09 07:46 AM |
#25 |
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I think that discrimination at the social and political level follow all of the causes of racism |
Time for change |
Sep-20-09 07:55 AM |
#28 |
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It is the lynchpin of institutional racism |
malaise |
Sep-20-09 08:30 AM |
#29 |
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"The English thought the Irish were inferior for religious regions hence they could be exploited" |
Hannah Bell |
Sep-20-09 08:22 PM |
#58 |
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Another truly invaluable, brilliantly insightful post by Time for change. |
Joe Chi Minh |
Sep-20-09 07:48 AM |
#27 |
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Thank you Joe |
Time for change |
Sep-20-09 06:00 PM |
#53 |
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Nowhere in the OP is it pointed out that racism has no basis in science |
BOG PERSON |
Sep-20-09 01:24 PM |
#38 |
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Isn't it obvious from the causes that I discussed in the OP that it has not basis in science? |
Time for change |
Sep-20-09 01:35 PM |
#39 |
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Not really |
BOG PERSON |
Sep-20-09 01:39 PM |
#40 |
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I didn't make it clear that racism is the result of unhealthy attitudes? |
Time for change |
Sep-20-09 01:53 PM |
#41 |
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The problem is that's what you reduce racism to! |
BOG PERSON |
Sep-20-09 02:04 PM |
#42 |
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You say in your first post on this thread: |
Time for change |
Sep-20-09 02:35 PM |
#45 |
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I think there's been a misunderstanding, or I haven't been clear enough |
BOG PERSON |
Sep-20-09 02:39 PM |
#46 |
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Yeah, that's perfectly clear now |
Time for change |
Sep-20-09 02:52 PM |
#47 |
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What's not clear? |
BOG PERSON |
Sep-20-09 03:13 PM |
#49 |
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That's not clear to me either |
Time for change |
Sep-20-09 08:26 PM |
#59 |
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No, they actually don't |
BOG PERSON |
Sep-20-09 10:17 PM |
#66 |
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It IS. |
Karenina |
Sep-20-09 02:25 PM |
#43 |
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If racism is a mental illness |
BOG PERSON |
Sep-20-09 02:30 PM |
#44 |
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Perhaps it does have a basis in science, in Darwin's Natural Selection |
dugaresa |
Sep-22-09 11:43 AM |
#85 |
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root cause I can't address |
subcomhd |
Sep-20-09 02:56 PM |
#48 |
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The cause of racism is the ways our brains work |
AngryAmish |
Sep-20-09 08:29 PM |
#60 |
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Sure, ok |
Confusious |
Sep-20-09 10:22 PM |
#68 |
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The lack of empathy of many whites? |
Confusious |
Sep-20-09 10:17 PM |
#67 |
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You want me to expand on your two sentence simpleton summary of my post? |
Time for change |
Sep-21-09 06:58 AM |
#76 |
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so how do you explain |
felon |
Sep-21-09 01:35 AM |
#70 |
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Mental imbalance? |
Karenina |
Sep-21-09 10:26 AM |
#81 |
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You seem to be only focused on racism in the US, however this is a problem that goes back probably |
dugaresa |
Sep-22-09 11:33 AM |
#84 |
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very interesting... |
Blue_Roses |
Sep-22-09 12:31 PM |
#87 |
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what an interesting thread... |
Blue_Roses |
Sep-22-09 12:32 PM |
#88 |
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Yep yep. |
Solomon |
Sep-22-09 12:40 PM |
#89 |