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Reply #42: Exactly. The term is "relative deprivation" - sociologists say that revolutions occur not because [View All]

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leveymg (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Sun Sep-06-09 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #18
42. Exactly. The term is "relative deprivation" - sociologists say that revolutions occur not because
Edited on Sun Sep-06-09 11:18 AM by leveymg
people are deprived, but when they realize they can do better under an alternative regime. The tipping-point for revolution comes after mass mobilization, not before. The creation of a seemingly viable "dual sovereign", a party or para-state structure that appear capable of ruling, is also a prerequisite for a revolution. Revolts may occur without this sort of political organization, but they don't lead to state transformation.

The revolutionary process was closely examined during the Cold War as part of counter-insurgency doctrine. The most valuable theorists, in my view, are political scientists such as Chalmers Johnson, Jack Goldstone, Theda Skocpol, and the Tillys.

The place to start reading is James C. Davies, who came up with a theory about the "revolution of rising expectations" and the likelihood of armed civil conflict. His idea came out of development theory and ideas about the dynamic and effects of modernization on traditional societies. In the 1960s this became known as the Davies J-curve: http://www.fragilecologies.com/jun27_03.html

Here is how it works: for a given individual, life is getting better in real terms: increasing salary and benefits, improved nutritional status, the ability to purchase better modes of transportation, among other items well beyond his or her basic need. However, the individual wants more than s/he can afford. S/he thins that his or her standards of living should be getting better at a faster rate than it is. In other words, the pace of reality is not keeping up with his or her expectations about how much better it should be. Nevertheless, while it may be frustrating to the individual not to have his or her reality keep up with his or her rising expectations, the individual's situation is not so bad that it leads either to conflict or to frustration. That's the situation in an era of rising expectations, as it was, say, in the 1960s."

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  "I'm gonna get a gun and take what the fuck I need" ThomWV  Sep-06-09 09:13 AM   #0 
   it's a desperate country and it's broken in many many ways  spanone   Sep-06-09 09:15 AM   #1 
   We are going to explore new grounds. Never before in history..  Junkdrawer   Sep-06-09 09:15 AM   #2 
   A nation this poor?  imdjh   Sep-06-09 09:19 AM   #4 
      It's the fall that scares me...  Junkdrawer   Sep-06-09 09:25 AM   #5 
      Who commits the violent crime in the US?  imdjh   Sep-06-09 09:32 AM   #10 
         Thankfully, it hasn't happened yet. But I'm afraid we're seeing the first...  Junkdrawer   Sep-06-09 09:38 AM   #12 
         .  fascisthunter   Sep-06-09 10:48 AM   #36 
         You may be right when we are in good times but anger in bad times  jwirr   Sep-06-09 11:01 AM   #43 
         a revolution would purge both?  mudplanet   Sep-06-09 01:21 PM   #61 
         Yes but stealing is often an angry act.  JNelson6563   Sep-07-09 07:41 AM   #63 
      Poverty is relative  northernlights   Sep-06-09 09:45 AM   #18 
         Fortunately, our society is still healthy enough that most people are raised right.  imdjh   Sep-06-09 10:24 AM   #23 
         Deleted message  Name removed   Sep-06-09 10:31 AM   #26 
            Deleted message  Name removed   Sep-06-09 10:43 AM   #32 
            Nice personal attack.  cwydro   Sep-06-09 10:54 AM   #38 
               Good advice? This is just the way of the world?  Gman2   Sep-06-09 11:04 AM   #45 
                  Hold on.  imdjh   Sep-06-09 01:10 PM   #59 
                     well it does imply "being a crybaby" to much of the world  northernlights   Sep-07-09 07:32 AM   #62 
         Exactly. The term is "relative deprivation" - sociologists say that revolutions occur not because  leveymg   Sep-06-09 10:59 AM   #42 
         Seems to me that revolutions have traditionally occurred when...  imdjh   Sep-06-09 11:14 AM   #47 
            Are you saying that Obama is a second-tier leader, or do you mean Limbaugh?  leveymg   Sep-06-09 11:29 AM   #50 
         What you describe is the loss of the 'social contract' and you are correct  havocmom   Sep-06-09 11:03 AM   #44 
   Welcome to the American Weimar Republic.  no_hypocrisy   Sep-06-09 09:16 AM   #3 
   Did Mencken describe this demagogue as being a fat slob with boils on his ass  tularetom   Sep-06-09 09:44 AM   #17 
      Always open season on fat people.  imdjh   Sep-06-09 10:25 AM   #24 
         I'm sorry - did I say anything about "fat people"?  tularetom   Sep-06-09 11:39 AM   #51 
            Everyone has his pet PC thing, that's mine.  imdjh   Sep-06-09 01:04 PM   #58 
   Then he won't mind being executed when he's caught.....  Uben   Sep-06-09 09:27 AM   #6 
   Very scary.  kentuck   Sep-06-09 09:27 AM   #7 
   It sure shook me awake in a hurry  ThomWV   Sep-06-09 09:30 AM   #8 
      At first, I was surprised they didn't catch him with the delay button..  kentuck   Sep-06-09 09:44 AM   #16 
      He did us a service. He is the canary.  Gman2   Sep-06-09 10:33 AM   #27 
         The floor of our national mine shaft is littered shin-deep in canaries.  TahitiNut   Sep-06-09 10:42 AM   #30 
   That's called 'armed robbery' and will get you prison or killed by someone defending themselves.  Edweird   Sep-06-09 09:30 AM   #9 
   Read the Adventures of Ivan Illich, by Dostoevsky. What choice is he given?  Gman2   Sep-06-09 10:35 AM   #29 
      Tell that to the person making minimum wage at 7-11  Telly Savalas   Sep-06-09 10:46 AM   #33 
      I'll pass. I'm facing a very similar situation myself.  Edweird   Sep-06-09 10:55 AM   #40 
         Imagine being in your situation  JNelson6563   Sep-07-09 07:49 AM   #64 
            Things have been worse for me.  Edweird   Sep-07-09 09:33 AM   #66 
   Like so many other social issues in this country, this is nothing new.  piratefish08   Sep-06-09 09:35 AM   #11 
   That's known in '70s psychobabble as a "cry for help"  slackmaster   Sep-06-09 09:39 AM   #13 
   heh, heh, you said "psychobabble"  imdjh   Sep-06-09 09:41 AM   #15 
      I have a degree in psych - I am allowed to call expressions psychobabble  slackmaster   Sep-06-09 10:43 AM   #31 
         I've often wished I had gotten a DD for much the same reason. nt  imdjh   Sep-06-09 10:46 AM   #34 
   Thank God he still has cable  Stevenmarc   Sep-06-09 09:40 AM   #14 
   Bwa-haaa!  Chef Eric   Sep-06-09 09:53 AM   #20 
   Good one!  murray hill farm   Sep-06-09 10:53 AM   #37 
   Yes, and a phone  slackmaster   Sep-06-09 10:54 AM   #39 
   Yep, and he said he still had about 2 weeks until they evicted him too.  ThomWV   Sep-06-09 11:06 AM   #46 
      And  Stevenmarc   Sep-06-09 11:15 AM   #48 
         When they post the rebroadcasts later today go listen to it - that's why I included the time  ThomWV   Sep-06-09 12:13 PM   #54 
   I once listen to this very elderly man (he had lived thru the 1st Republicon Great Depression)  fasttense   Sep-06-09 09:51 AM   #19 
   My grandmother said the same thing. Easier to steal and threaten violence  Jennicut   Sep-06-09 10:27 AM   #25 
   There was plenty of crime and violence in the 30s, worse than anything now.  bemildred   Sep-06-09 10:57 AM   #41 
   I hope he takes "what the fuck he needs" from Rush Limbaugh  Vinnie From Indy   Sep-06-09 10:11 AM   #21 
   And then theres the mother who killed herself  undeterred   Sep-06-09 10:13 AM   #22 
   Wasn't that a special moment? Telling, I think, of the times to come  jotsy   Sep-06-09 10:34 AM   #28 
   I missed it this morning.  asdjrocky   Sep-06-09 10:47 AM   #35 
   A lot of people (including DUers who are doind just fine)  TwixVoy   Sep-06-09 11:26 AM   #49 
   funny ... since when we talk about helping the poor and the homeless,  zbdent   Sep-06-09 11:56 AM   #52 
   Dems and pubs BOTH villify the unfortunate.  Gman2   Sep-06-09 12:15 PM   #55 
   Well then...I guess he told us.  tjwash   Sep-06-09 12:06 PM   #53 
   You dont know SHIT, and where is he NEXT week?  Gman2   Sep-06-09 12:17 PM   #56 
   good for him  d_b   Sep-06-09 12:28 PM   #57 
   jeez people, one crazy anonymous mofo says one crazy thing  subcomhd   Sep-06-09 01:19 PM   #60 
      That's because the anonymous dude was emblematic  SpiralHawk   Sep-07-09 08:04 AM   #65 
         or alternatively, he's a drunk who makes crank calls and has no financial problems at all  subcomhd   Sep-07-09 02:10 PM   #67 
 

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