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Reply #150: First of all, most of the Democrats in Washington ARE corporatists. [View All]

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Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 08:58 AM
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150. First of all, most of the Democrats in Washington ARE corporatists.
The only thing that causes a political party in this system to move to the left is economic collapse and people rioting in the streets.

I'm not suggesting anyone would actively wish for those conditions or being heartless about it. I'm just acknowledging that very little short of that has the power to penetrate the massive power of this corrupt and broken system.
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  -Will losing votes from the left force the Democratic party to move left? redqueen  Sep-02-09 01:53 PM   #0 
  - they're corporate whores  Skittles   Sep-02-09 01:55 PM   #1 
  - Many are... most even, perhaps... not all, though.  redqueen   Sep-02-09 01:56 PM   #2 
  - There are never repercussions from taking for granted your most myopic supporters.  timeforpeace   Sep-02-09 03:39 PM   #75 
     - Nice... insults.  redqueen   Sep-02-09 03:42 PM   #78 
        - I think that response sums up my opinion on the matter as well.  LooseWilly   Sep-03-09 11:32 PM   #143 
           - I think that's a simplistic way to look at it.  redqueen   Sep-04-09 09:39 AM   #164 
  - Ding ding ding. Correct answer, Skittles!  Enthusiast   Sep-02-09 01:57 PM   #4 
  - No, by voting for Dems we won the privilege of not having McCain.  redqueen   Sep-02-09 02:20 PM   #17 
     - The " he isn't/they aren't as bad as ~insert repuke name here~ arguement" no longer works.  Mystayya   Sep-02-09 02:31 PM   #21 
     - I don't see how ceding power to the GOP holds Dems accountable.  redqueen   Sep-02-09 02:34 PM   #24 
        - The question is, is there a difference?  LooseWilly   Sep-02-09 03:10 PM   #54 
        - Like you said, it's a judgment call.  redqueen   Sep-02-09 03:14 PM   #58 
        - That would be my first course of action  Mystayya   Sep-02-09 09:40 PM   #93 
           - It seems to me that that is changing...  redqueen   Sep-03-09 09:08 AM   #109 
              - But they need to know we CAN and will if they continue to work for the Corps.  Mystayya   Sep-03-09 09:38 AM   #110 
     - because the damn fools we elected are acting just like  HillbillyBob   Sep-02-09 02:37 PM   #27 
     - So you don't think it would be any worse under Republicans?  redqueen   Sep-02-09 02:41 PM   #30 
        - At one point do we get to vote for something besides the lesser of two evils?  Mystayya   Sep-03-09 09:40 AM   #112 
           - When we get a parliamentary system would be my guess...  redqueen   Sep-03-09 11:48 AM   #121 
     - The AFLCIO just pledged not to support any congresscritter who didn't work for the public option.,  bobbolink   Sep-02-09 03:29 PM   #70 
        - I bet it was the challenger... not the "I'm staying HOME!" whiners.  redqueen   Sep-02-09 03:38 PM   #74 
           - And the name-calling earns you a spot on my ignore list---again,  bobbolink   Sep-02-09 03:51 PM   #81 
              - Well even though you can't see it, I'll say sorry...  redqueen   Sep-02-09 03:56 PM   #82 
                 - If we are betrayed by  Enthusiast   Sep-03-09 06:33 AM   #98 
                    - *sigh*  redqueen   Sep-03-09 08:59 AM   #101 
                       - Democrats still must be  Enthusiast   Sep-03-09 09:05 AM   #107 
                          - I agree.  redqueen   Sep-03-09 09:06 AM   #108 
  - Thank you. n/t  QC   Sep-02-09 01:58 PM   #7 
  - If you want to escape the corporatist society  abumbyanyothername   Sep-02-09 02:46 PM   #37 
  - I don't know  Mystayya   Sep-02-09 01:57 PM   #3 
  - Not to keep up numbers, to keep the power from the GOP.  redqueen   Sep-02-09 01:58 PM   #6 
     - There is just a certain point I am unwilling to pass  Mystayya   Sep-02-09 02:29 PM   #20 
     - I hate the gopers witha passion , especially after the shit  HillbillyBob   Sep-02-09 02:36 PM   #26 
     - Glad to hear you weren't conned by Reagan's lies...  redqueen   Sep-02-09 02:42 PM   #34 
        - What about the likes of Feinstein?  LooseWilly   Sep-02-09 03:21 PM   #63 
           - She needs to be treated the way Lieberman was, IMO.  redqueen   Sep-02-09 03:28 PM   #69 
              - I guess I'm willing to go a little further than you are  LooseWilly   Sep-02-09 09:07 PM   #91 
                 - If you can live with helping the GOP get more power...  redqueen   Sep-03-09 09:00 AM   #102 
                    - If the alternative is a Democrat whose behavior and vote pattern  LooseWilly   Sep-03-09 11:21 PM   #141 
                       - I'm glad you mentioned Feinstein.  redqueen   Sep-04-09 09:40 AM   #165 
     - Sure it would be worse under McCain.  CrispyQ   Sep-02-09 02:44 PM   #35 
     - There will NEVER be Dems who do the right thing if people follow your advice  FiveGoodMen   Sep-02-09 03:07 PM   #51 
     - The "not as bad" meme is BS that fewer and fewer people are falling for.  Individualist   Sep-02-09 03:09 PM   #53 
        - It's not a meme, it's a fact.  redqueen   Sep-02-09 03:13 PM   #57 
           - More BS  Individualist   Sep-02-09 03:17 PM   #59 
  - The Blue Dogs are mostly in swing districts, while House Progressives are mostly in safe districts.  Eric J in MN   Sep-02-09 01:58 PM   #5 
  - I'd need to see polling data to back that up.  redqueen   Sep-02-09 01:59 PM   #8 
  - Yep, that's a load of crap they're trying to feed us.  Greyhound   Sep-02-09 02:03 PM   #12 
     - "The candidate that taps into that resource, wins."  CrispyQ   Sep-02-09 02:38 PM   #28 
     - I disagree that the majority of them don't vote because of that reason.  redqueen   Sep-02-09 02:44 PM   #36 
     - So, if they don't care and or feel it doesn't effect them, and we (politically aware folks) know  Greyhound   Sep-02-09 02:57 PM   #45 
        - If I had to guess...  redqueen   Sep-02-09 03:02 PM   #46 
        - Because they can.  DireStrike   Sep-02-09 03:04 PM   #49 
     - I totally, totally agree.  Zenlitened   Sep-02-09 03:23 PM   #67 
     - Most people don't vote  Codeine   Sep-04-09 09:32 AM   #160 
  - Probably , it will just turn off many of the younger people  SoCalDem   Sep-02-09 02:00 PM   #9 
  - Definitely agree re: public funding.  redqueen   Sep-02-09 02:06 PM   #14 
  - No. They'll consolidate their ties with corporatism and walk away  bridgit   Sep-02-09 02:00 PM   #10 
  - I more-or-less gave up on the dem party in 2000...  mike_c   Sep-02-09 02:01 PM   #11 
  - So... do you think it will work?  redqueen   Sep-02-09 02:07 PM   #15 
     - I don't know-- so far it certainly hasn't...  mike_c   Sep-02-09 04:41 PM   #87 
  - FDR got cracking on the New Deal  Lydia Leftcoast   Sep-02-09 02:03 PM   #13 
  - Yeah... no one had thought of the DLC at that time.  redqueen   Sep-02-09 02:08 PM   #16 
  - Did you make that up yourself, or did someone else do it for you?  bornskeptic   Sep-02-09 02:42 PM   #33 
     - It may be the wrong reference...  redqueen   Sep-02-09 02:48 PM   #39 
     - So which was the one in which LaFollette took 16%?  Lydia Leftcoast   Sep-02-09 04:17 PM   #84 
        - 1924 - 13%  RUMMYisFROSTED   Sep-03-09 09:45 AM   #114 
  - I haven't seen that work yet. Usually the reply is, "Hey! Where do you think  GreenPartyVoter   Sep-02-09 02:24 PM   #18 
  - The Green Party, obviously.  redqueen   Sep-02-09 02:26 PM   #19 
  - Frankly, I don't know what will work. As you say it was long ago. I think  GreenPartyVoter   Sep-02-09 02:33 PM   #23 
  - Amen. (nt)  redqueen   Sep-02-09 02:35 PM   #25 
  - We need to find a chink in the armor like public financing  DireStrike   Sep-02-09 02:42 PM   #32 
  - redqueen - if you do not agree with withholding support for those Dems who sell  T Wolf   Sep-02-09 02:41 PM   #31 
     - Of course I think that would be a good thing.  redqueen   Sep-02-09 02:46 PM   #38 
  - That is the sentiment I see even here in this thread.  Mystayya   Sep-02-09 02:33 PM   #22 
  - As long as the Dems count on our nose-holding ability they will continue to move right.  Tierra_y_Libertad   Sep-02-09 02:39 PM   #29 
  - But even when the left has abandoned them,  redqueen   Sep-02-09 02:50 PM   #40 
     - Then, it is up to the individual citizen to bow out of the game.  Tierra_y_Libertad   Sep-02-09 03:04 PM   #48 
        - Quotes are nice... but I don't want Congress in the hands of the GOP.  redqueen   Sep-02-09 03:09 PM   #52 
           - So that is your quote. Weighed against Thomas Jefferson  Bluenorthwest   Sep-03-09 09:39 AM   #111 
              - Does being nasty help you somehow?  redqueen   Sep-03-09 09:41 AM   #113 
                 - Not intending to be nasty by saying Tom Jefferson holds more weight  Bluenorthwest   Sep-03-09 11:08 AM   #117 
                    - LOL... the non-apology apology...  redqueen   Sep-03-09 11:21 AM   #118 
                       - Forgive me if I do not see much civility in your manner  Bluenorthwest   Sep-03-09 11:54 AM   #123 
                          - LOL... get off the cross.  redqueen   Sep-03-09 11:59 AM   #125 
  - Fuck.  DireStrike   Sep-02-09 02:50 PM   #41 
  - Well aren't you a little ray of sunshine.  redqueen   Sep-02-09 03:04 PM   #47 
     - Pessimists are rarely disappointed.  DireStrike   Sep-02-09 03:18 PM   #60 
        - I mostly agree...  redqueen   Sep-02-09 03:22 PM   #65 
           - I see what you did there.  DireStrike   Sep-02-09 03:23 PM   #66 
              - Come again?  redqueen   Sep-02-09 03:41 PM   #77 
  - Nope, it'll do what it always did and push them further right  WeDidIt   Sep-02-09 02:51 PM   #42 
  - Yep... it can't work everywhere...  redqueen   Sep-02-09 03:07 PM   #50 
  - Certain elements of the left thrive on failure and whining. So Palin 2012 is a big win for them.  HamdenRice   Sep-02-09 02:51 PM   #43 
  - For some, that does seem to be the case...  redqueen   Sep-02-09 03:11 PM   #55 
  - Yep - exemplified best by the lingering Nader apologetics  dmallind   Sep-02-09 03:19 PM   #62 
     - I couldn't possibly agree more about the difference. (nt)  redqueen   Sep-02-09 03:33 PM   #71 
  - I've never agreed with HamdenRice.  Codeine   Sep-04-09 09:34 AM   #163 
     - Hah.  redqueen   Sep-04-09 09:41 AM   #166 
  - Reagan was elected by rich conserva-dems, not leftists  hfojvt   Sep-02-09 02:54 PM   #44 
  - That is far from the truth. Working class Dems voted for Reagan.  redqueen   Sep-02-09 03:12 PM   #56 
     - I don't think so. Check the stats on wiki  hfojvt   Sep-02-09 05:33 PM   #88 
        - So you're taking back your assertion re: "rich" conservadems?  redqueen   Sep-02-09 05:49 PM   #89 
           - sure, technically I should have said richER  hfojvt   Sep-02-09 09:41 PM   #94 
  - The typical DU assumption here (not necessarily the OP's) is not tenable  dmallind   Sep-02-09 03:18 PM   #61 
  - You make some very good points.  redqueen   Sep-02-09 03:25 PM   #68 
  - You also have to consider that most people are not monolithic  dmallind   Sep-02-09 04:14 PM   #83 
     - And then there are some who might  redqueen   Sep-02-09 04:18 PM   #85 
        - True. That's a tough one for me to follow but in some cases I would  dmallind   Sep-04-09 08:31 AM   #147 
  - Your post is worthy of a thread all it's own.  Kaleva   Sep-03-09 11:55 AM   #124 
  - Losing votes on the left means GOP takes power  scheming daemons   Sep-02-09 03:21 PM   #64 
  - I doubt it's what they want...  redqueen   Sep-02-09 03:35 PM   #72 
  - That's what primaries are for. n/t  rucky   Sep-03-09 05:56 PM   #136 
  - Depends on how the lose really? If they lose while kicking up a fight, then maybe  La Lioness Priyanka   Sep-02-09 03:38 PM   #73 
  - I partially agree...  redqueen   Sep-02-09 03:40 PM   #76 
     - they need to be focussed with their message and not appear conciliatory  La Lioness Priyanka   Sep-02-09 03:42 PM   #79 
        - Definitely agree. (nt)  redqueen   Sep-02-09 03:48 PM   #80 
  - Unless actual liberals take local control over the party and start  leftofthedial   Sep-02-09 04:20 PM   #86 
  - Completely agree. (nt)  redqueen   Sep-03-09 09:04 AM   #105 
  - The Democratic party is not losing any votes from the left, IMO.  robcon   Sep-02-09 06:47 PM   #90 
  - So it's all just empty threats, you think?  redqueen   Sep-03-09 09:02 AM   #103 
     - Yes, I think those are empty threats.  robcon   Sep-03-09 10:33 AM   #115 
        - I wasn't talking about the Dems in DC.  redqueen   Sep-03-09 11:45 AM   #119 
           - Then there's even less chance that the threat is real.  robcon   Sep-03-09 05:37 PM   #133 
  - I know what is guaranfuckingteed not to work  kenny blankenship   Sep-02-09 09:13 PM   #92 
  - I wish I could recommend your post  Individualist   Sep-02-09 10:27 PM   #96 
  - thank you. this is how i too feel the democrats (both elected and party worshippers) treat  La Lioness Priyanka   Sep-03-09 08:44 AM   #99 
  - Er... okay.  redqueen   Sep-03-09 08:58 AM   #100 
  - cede more power  Doctor_J   Sep-02-09 09:45 PM   #95 
  - Well it's up to their constituents to change things.  redqueen   Sep-03-09 09:03 AM   #104 
  - If they understand it was us they lost.  mmonk   Sep-02-09 10:29 PM   #97 
  - Wouldn't polling data back that up?  redqueen   Sep-03-09 09:05 AM   #106 
  - The example of the right in the 90's  billyclem   Sep-03-09 11:00 AM   #116 
  - I definitely think that supporting primary challengers from the left  redqueen   Sep-03-09 11:47 AM   #120 
  - We went to NADER & GOT BUSH in 2000  barbiegeek   Sep-03-09 11:50 AM   #122 
  - More Dems voted for Bush then for Nader  Kaleva   Sep-03-09 12:00 PM   #126 
  - So... again ... how is not voting all supposed to push them left?  redqueen   Sep-03-09 05:54 PM   #134 
  - Wrong-o, daddy-o. Stolen "election," 110%. Even Gore disavows the Nader 'theory'  Echo In Light   Sep-03-09 12:00 PM   #127 
  - As long as we let the MSM and corporate power define left and right, no.  Orsino   Sep-03-09 12:08 PM   #128 
  - That's exactly how it seems to me. (nt)  redqueen   Sep-03-09 05:56 PM   #135 
  - that seems to be the calculation the Dem. Party is making  paulk   Sep-03-09 12:13 PM   #129 
  - Something tells me we're going to see A LOT of anti-3rd party propaganda in coming yrs!  Echo In Light   Sep-03-09 12:15 PM   #130 
  - It's hard to say which demographic put Obama over the top  Kaleva   Sep-03-09 01:03 PM   #131 
  - Kerry won that demographic by less than 10 points  paulk   Sep-03-09 01:40 PM   #132 
  - I'm simply asking about the logic behind the tactic.  redqueen   Sep-03-09 05:57 PM   #137 
     - I guess what I'm trying to say is that losing votes  paulk   Sep-03-09 06:54 PM   #140 
  - Hello President Geb Bushler & Vice-President Sarah Palin.  Swamp Rat   Sep-03-09 06:06 PM   #138 
  - No - it will be get more conservative as it absorbs the moderate GOP'ers  Blasphemer   Sep-03-09 06:17 PM   #139 
  - If the progressive left splits off we will look like England  Jennicut   Sep-03-09 11:25 PM   #142 
  - Life long Democrat here  laughingliberal   Sep-04-09 12:01 AM   #144 
  - The question was, do you think it will make the party more liberal? (nt)  redqueen   Sep-04-09 09:29 AM   #157 
  - Interesting post.  kentuck   Sep-04-09 12:33 AM   #145 
  - I think there is a more important impact of a divorce in the Democratic party  robcon   Sep-04-09 06:54 AM   #146 
  - So the question that remains:  kentuck   Sep-04-09 08:46 AM   #148 
     - No. The question is tactical (how do we do it) not strategic (where are we going)  robcon   Sep-04-09 09:10 AM   #152 
        - The left and independents were organized and re-energized ...  kentuck   Sep-04-09 09:12 AM   #153 
           - Not enough people were "organized and re-energized"  robcon   Sep-04-09 09:21 AM   #155 
              - In my opinion...  kentuck   Sep-04-09 09:24 AM   #156 
                 - Of course they will.  redqueen   Sep-04-09 09:44 AM   #168 
  - Well giving money surely doesn't push them left.  redqueen   Sep-04-09 09:31 AM   #159 
  - Losing voters on the left always moves the country RIGHT, now look where we are...  NotThisTime   Sep-04-09 08:51 AM   #149 
  - First of all, most of the Democrats in Washington ARE corporatists.  Political Heretic   Sep-04-09 08:58 AM   #150 
  - Unfortunately.  kentuck   Sep-04-09 09:13 AM   #154 
  - That's Nader's theory as well...  redqueen   Sep-04-09 09:32 AM   #161 
     - Smear by association is a logically cheap tactic.  Political Heretic   Sep-04-09 08:52 PM   #172 
  - This is NOT 1980 - so HOPEFULLY it will have the OPPOSITE effect of 1980  TankLV   Sep-04-09 09:06 AM   #151 
  - You give the electorate more credit than I do.  redqueen   Sep-04-09 09:33 AM   #162 
  - No  TransitJohn   Sep-04-09 09:30 AM   #158 
  - It's very likely to move left IMO, and that is not the way to keep a majority in Congress  slackmaster   Sep-04-09 09:42 AM   #167 
  - Didn't this get tried AGAIN in 1994 and 2000?  Proud Liberal Dem   Sep-04-09 09:51 AM   #169 
     - Yes... that's exactly how I see it.  redqueen   Sep-04-09 12:33 PM   #170 
        - Absolutely  Proud Liberal Dem   Sep-04-09 01:05 PM   #171 

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