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Reply #14: You are confusing "orders" with "legal opinions"--it's not the same at all [View All]

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HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 09:52 AM
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14. You are confusing "orders" with "legal opinions"--it's not the same at all
Edited on Tue Aug-25-09 09:55 AM by HamdenRice
We've discussed this ad infinitum, but what the heh.

"I was just following orders" is not a defense to being charged with committing a crime.

But if you decline to follow an order, but instead ask for a legal opinion, not from the person giving you the order, but from the highest law enforcement agency in the country, as to whether the order is legal, and that highest law enforcement agency in the country says, "if you do this, you will not be committing a crime," and if you follow that legal opinion, then that law enforcement agency cannot turn around and prosecute you. It doesn't mean you have not committed a crime. It doesn't mean you are innocent. It means that that particular law enforcement agency cannot prosecute you because it advised you that the act was legal.

That's what Holder is saying.

It's actually closer to "estoppel" than it is to exoneration of the criminal act. The torturer is not innocent, but the law enforcement agency (the Justice Department) is "estopped" from prosecuting a person it gave a legal opinion to.
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  -"Befehl ist Befehl" Holder Overturns Justice Jackson and Nuremberg kpete  Aug-25-09 09:09 AM   #0 
  - "I was only following orders."  kentuck   Aug-25-09 09:12 AM   #1 
  - K&R  Solly Mack   Aug-25-09 09:13 AM   #2 
  - Unbelievable.  redqueen   Aug-25-09 09:14 AM   #3 
  - what a sad state of affairs.  Soylent Brice   Aug-25-09 09:15 AM   #4 
  - I read that as saying  madokie   Aug-25-09 09:17 AM   #5 
  - Yes, I made the comment about the OLC in one of the threads here  mmonk   Aug-25-09 09:18 AM   #6 
  - Include Adolf Eichmann in there, too.  Call Me Wesley   Aug-25-09 09:19 AM   #7 
  - Spencer Tracy is going to be pissed!  Captain Hilts   Aug-25-09 09:21 AM   #8 
  - i bet senator dodd`s dad is weeping ....  madrchsod   Aug-25-09 09:21 AM   #9 
  - Gott mit Uns.  Octafish   Aug-25-09 09:37 AM   #10 
  - It's a helluva lot more subtle than that.  Buzz Clik   Aug-25-09 09:41 AM   #11 
  - He defended Chicita Banana's support of Columbian death squads.  Metta   Aug-25-09 09:42 AM   #12 
  - NOTHING i DIDN'T EXPECT!.. how is FISA working for everyone ????????n/t  flyarm   Aug-25-09 09:43 AM   #13 
  - You are confusing "orders" with "legal opinions"--it's not the same at all  HamdenRice   Aug-25-09 09:52 AM   #14 
  - that's why U.S. war criminals should be packed off to The Hague...  mike_c   Aug-25-09 09:58 AM   #15 
  - That's actually a good point  HamdenRice   Aug-25-09 10:04 AM   #17 
  - But if the opinion itself is patently ungrounded in law or fact  gratuitous   Aug-25-09 11:14 AM   #20 
  - "act in good faith." = pure poison  Echo In Light   Aug-25-09 09:59 AM   #16 
  - Someone should file a lawsuit against Holder, because what he is proposeing is Unconstitutional!  flyarm   Aug-25-09 10:34 AM   #18 
  - "within the scope of legal guidance"  izzybeans   Aug-25-09 10:57 AM   #19 
  - Do you have any concept of the importance of the OLC?  Buzz Clik   Aug-25-09 11:15 AM   #21 
  - Obama/Holder...Torture is All OK......  bvar22   Aug-25-09 11:18 AM   #22 

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