EFerrari
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Sun Aug-23-09 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #38 |
| 41. Impeachment aside, I believe that under Geneva, the president |
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as head of state, is obligated to order DoJ to investigate. And when we signed Geneva, it became US law, too. Obama's responsibility there is clear.
We also have domestic legislation about torture and I'm not familiar with that language. I don't know, for example, if it's written so as to make Congress jointly responsible.
Under Obama, we have the same problem we had under Bush. Is the president above the law? And the answer seems to be, yes, he is because even his opposition doesn't want to upset the flow of money and power in Washington.
But / and, the CIA torture story seems to be bubbling up again and it looks like next week, it will be in the news because Holder is supposed to announce a decision about a special prosecutor.
|
| -Is Obama on the verge of committing impeachable offenses by not prosecuting the tyranny of Bushco? |
Union Yes |
Aug-23-09 12:10 PM |
#0 |
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I voted No. First of all, I was never deluded into thinking |
JeanGrey |
Aug-23-09 12:14 PM |
#1 |
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Not investigating torture is a crime. The only question really |
EFerrari |
Aug-23-09 12:23 PM |
#6 |
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Good luck prosecuting Obama for this "crime". |
JeanGrey |
Aug-23-09 12:25 PM |
#8 |
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The torture convention has a mandate and a time sensitive one. |
EFerrari |
Aug-23-09 12:38 PM |
#23 |
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Look, Obama is still doing what Bush did. There are still |
JeanGrey |
Aug-23-09 09:29 PM |
#104 |
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Right. And that's different than dismissing out of hand |
EFerrari |
Aug-24-09 03:35 AM |
#112 |
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Purposely failing to prosecute high crimes is a violation of Presidential Oath of Office. |
Union Yes |
Aug-23-09 12:24 PM |
#7 |
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Well then are you prepared to launch a movement to |
JeanGrey |
Aug-23-09 12:26 PM |
#10 |
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"failing to prosecute high crimes" Here is the only mention of "high crimes" in the Constitution: |
cherokeeprogressive |
Aug-23-09 02:07 PM |
#50 |
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I agree with you. It was never going to happen, not with any of our Dems, even DK. |
Maru Kitteh |
Aug-23-09 04:05 PM |
#63 |
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Exactly. I was quite frankly, surprised at those that |
JeanGrey |
Aug-23-09 09:30 PM |
#105 |
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Why do we have laws, then? |
sabrina 1 |
Aug-24-09 02:02 PM |
#133 |
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You forgot one: No one actually in authority gives a crap. |
Ladyhawk |
Aug-23-09 12:14 PM |
#2 |
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No, but he better be mindful of war crimes charges for the Pakistan incursion and bombings. |
timeforpeace |
Aug-23-09 04:01 PM |
#62 |
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Who would do this? |
DrZeeLit |
Aug-23-09 12:20 PM |
#3 |
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Very, very well put. My sentiments, exactly. |
JeanGrey |
Aug-23-09 12:26 PM |
#11 |
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As much as we'd all love to see Bush in jail, it's never ever going to happen. |
Curtland1015 |
Aug-23-09 12:22 PM |
#4 |
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Do you want him impeached? Then why start this poll? |
NoSheep |
Aug-23-09 12:23 PM |
#5 |
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At some point if he doesn't prosecute, YES. |
Union Yes |
Aug-23-09 12:26 PM |
#9 |
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It isn't going to happen. |
JeanGrey |
Aug-23-09 12:28 PM |
#13 |
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Presidents don't prosecute. |
NoSheep |
Aug-23-09 12:30 PM |
#16 |
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Don't you know? Everything bad that happens in this country is Obama's fault. |
Curtland1015 |
Aug-23-09 12:32 PM |
#17 |
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Best of luck to us, huh? |
NoSheep |
Aug-23-09 12:32 PM |
#19 |
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He is obligated to investigate torture, yes. |
EFerrari |
Aug-23-09 12:49 PM |
#26 |
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Then prepare to be banned from this site. |
geek tragedy |
Aug-23-09 04:27 PM |
#70 |
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And here is the key difference between Republicans and Democrats folks... |
SidneyCarton |
Aug-24-09 01:40 PM |
#131 |
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Other |
Ohio Joe |
Aug-23-09 12:26 PM |
#12 |
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Oath of Office. |
Union Yes |
Aug-23-09 12:29 PM |
#14 |
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None of that says perform prosecutions |
Ohio Joe |
Aug-23-09 12:38 PM |
#21 |
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Yes, under the Geneva torture convention. n/t |
EFerrari |
Aug-23-09 12:40 PM |
#24 |
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Where? |
Ohio Joe |
Aug-23-09 12:45 PM |
#25 |
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Not impeachment but the convention is written so as to criminalize |
EFerrari |
Aug-23-09 12:56 PM |
#29 |
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And I agree completely with that... |
Ohio Joe |
Aug-23-09 01:23 PM |
#38 |
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Impeachment aside, I believe that under Geneva, the president |
EFerrari |
Aug-23-09 01:34 PM |
#41 |
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Perhaps... |
Ohio Joe |
Aug-23-09 02:07 PM |
#51 |
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Oh, I agree that the right wing would have a field day. |
EFerrari |
Aug-23-09 04:57 PM |
#78 |
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The War Crimes Act of 1996 |
G_j |
Aug-23-09 10:35 PM |
#110 |
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Nadler is a good Congressman, but he's just legally wrong |
HamdenRice |
Aug-23-09 02:06 PM |
#49 |
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The mandate is to investigate and no, I"m not misunderstanding anything. n/t |
EFerrari |
Aug-23-09 03:29 PM |
#58 |
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and what if the next Prez doesnt prosecute Obama for not prosecuting Bush? |
NightWatcher |
Aug-23-09 12:29 PM |
#15 |
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Then she wil be in violation of her Oath of Office as well. |
Union Yes |
Aug-23-09 12:36 PM |
#20 |
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God do we have to sit through MORE ignorance about impeachment? |
Richardo |
Aug-23-09 12:32 PM |
#18 |
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Explain your accusation of ignorance, I'm quite well informed. |
Union Yes |
Aug-23-09 12:38 PM |
#22 |
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You can start with what the impeachable crime is... and the evidence for that crime |
Richardo |
Aug-23-09 01:06 PM |
#35 |
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The rule of law, a little leftist fantasy. |
EFerrari |
Aug-23-09 01:14 PM |
#36 |
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"The Rule of Law" The last vestige of those with no real criminal evidence |
Richardo |
Aug-23-09 01:28 PM |
#39 |
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More than one person has already pointed out that Obama is in violation. |
EFerrari |
Aug-23-09 01:37 PM |
#43 |
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You don't seem to know what the law is. That's the problem. |
HamdenRice |
Aug-23-09 02:15 PM |
#53 |
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I think I side with Turley, Nadler and Nowak and not you. n/t |
EFerrari |
Aug-23-09 03:35 PM |
#59 |
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Cute. |
SidneyCarton |
Aug-24-09 01:43 PM |
#132 |
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The impeachnuts are out for blood and they don't care shose |
geek tragedy |
Aug-23-09 04:21 PM |
#66 |
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Move on (eom). |
Brooklyns_Finest |
Aug-23-09 12:54 PM |
#27 |
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Are you serious? |
Political Heretic |
Aug-23-09 08:11 PM |
#98 |
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When do you? |
thisisenuff |
Aug-23-09 12:54 PM |
#28 |
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I have |
Libertas1776 |
Aug-23-09 12:57 PM |
#30 |
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Disappointing? Yes. Impeachable? Why take down a Dem President. |
Jennicut |
Aug-23-09 12:59 PM |
#31 |
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It's the law. Forgetting impeachment, it's not only disappointing |
EFerrari |
Aug-23-09 01:02 PM |
#32 |
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It is NOT the law, contrary to what impeachnuts say. |
geek tragedy |
Aug-23-09 04:24 PM |
#69 |
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Read the thread. It's one thing to oppose impeachment. |
EFerrari |
Aug-23-09 04:47 PM |
#75 |
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## PLEASE DONATE TO DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND! ## |
DU GrovelBot |
Aug-23-09 01:02 PM |
#33 |
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With the time and the resources, we can either clean up the Bush mess or prosecute. |
Kerrytravelers |
Aug-23-09 01:02 PM |
#34 |
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It is an impeachable offense, but one I doubt the GOPers would use |
MasonJar |
Aug-23-09 01:16 PM |
#37 |
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Other. I agree with Rep. Nadler on this issue |
IndianaGreen |
Aug-23-09 01:30 PM |
#40 |
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Aw Jeez, not this ignorant rubbish again |
HamdenRice |
Aug-23-09 01:36 PM |
#42 |
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The president is obligated to order the Attorney General to investigate. |
EFerrari |
Aug-23-09 01:40 PM |
#44 |
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No he isn't. You are just plain wrong on the law. Period. |
HamdenRice |
Aug-23-09 01:43 PM |
#46 |
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Investigate, not prosecute, and the UN Special Rapporteur disagrees with you. |
EFerrari |
Aug-23-09 01:50 PM |
#48 |
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Wrong. Please name the provision of the UN Convention against Torture that requires investigation |
HamdenRice |
Aug-23-09 02:12 PM |
#52 |
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Third Geneva Convention deals with torture, and presumably, these articles: |
EFerrari |
Aug-23-09 03:20 PM |
#55 |
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Cut the Gordian Knot. The AG does not deal with impeachments. nt. |
Hosnon |
Aug-23-09 05:01 PM |
#81 |
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I wasn't addressing impeachment but the mandate to investigate. |
EFerrari |
Aug-23-09 05:04 PM |
#83 |
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I thought the point was taking Obama to task? The OP asked about impeachment, not |
Hosnon |
Aug-23-09 05:08 PM |
#84 |
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The underlying question is, is Obama mandated to investigate. |
EFerrari |
Aug-23-09 05:20 PM |
#87 |
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Oh I see. I thought you meant the AG was required to investigate. |
Hosnon |
Aug-23-09 05:22 PM |
#88 |
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Or for not being able to bowl a 100. |
EFerrari |
Aug-23-09 05:26 PM |
#90 |
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Zactly. nt. |
Hosnon |
Aug-23-09 05:27 PM |
#91 |
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Bullshit. See multiple posts proving you wrong. nt |
HamdenRice |
Aug-24-09 07:38 AM |
#127 |
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I notice HR hasn't be back after you dumped actual facts on him. |
Political Heretic |
Aug-23-09 08:14 PM |
#99 |
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Maybe he's walking his pony. |
EFerrari |
Aug-24-09 03:31 AM |
#111 |
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Actually, you misread it so badly, it's hard to know where to begin |
HamdenRice |
Aug-24-09 05:40 AM |
#113 |
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LOL |
EFerrari |
Aug-24-09 05:53 AM |
#117 |
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Can't answer? |
HamdenRice |
Aug-24-09 06:19 AM |
#120 |
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A voice of reason. |
SeattleGirl |
Aug-23-09 01:40 PM |
#45 |
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Obama must pursue known torturers |
EFerrari |
Aug-23-09 03:46 PM |
#61 |
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What utter bullshit. Please provide an example of a prosecution for failure to prosecute |
HamdenRice |
Aug-24-09 05:47 AM |
#114 |
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The letter was written by a prosecutor of war crimes in Rwanda. |
EFerrari |
Aug-24-09 05:52 AM |
#116 |
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Did you even read the letter you are citing? Can you understand it? Let's look at the text: |
HamdenRice |
Aug-24-09 06:25 AM |
#121 |
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LOL |
EFerrari |
Aug-24-09 07:32 AM |
#125 |
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LOL is your "answer" when you are proved absolutely wrong. DemocracyNow reports issue is moot |
HamdenRice |
Aug-24-09 07:37 AM |
#126 |
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Impeached or prosecuted? |
Hosnon |
Aug-23-09 05:00 PM |
#80 |
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3 arms of the government??? |
CitizenPatriot |
Aug-23-09 01:46 PM |
#47 |
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I'm waiting for someone to post the specific passage from whatever law, convention, or treaty under |
cherokeeprogressive |
Aug-23-09 02:26 PM |
#54 |
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See #55. The thing is, there is more than one way to get to the same place. |
EFerrari |
Aug-23-09 03:22 PM |
#56 |
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A "high crime" or "misdemeanor" is whatever the House says it is. |
Hosnon |
Aug-23-09 04:07 PM |
#64 |
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That's because it doesn't exist. nt |
HamdenRice |
Aug-24-09 06:33 AM |
#123 |
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That's the "Catch 22"! |
DailyGrind51 |
Aug-23-09 03:25 PM |
#57 |
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KATRINA should be on that list n/t |
lies and propaganda |
Aug-23-09 03:38 PM |
#60 |
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Not an impeachable offense, not a crime. |
geek tragedy |
Aug-23-09 04:19 PM |
#65 |
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Not an impeachable offense? Calling others ignorant of the law in that context |
Hosnon |
Aug-23-09 04:22 PM |
#67 |
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100% true. Lots of nutjobs who preach about the |
geek tragedy |
Aug-23-09 04:29 PM |
#71 |
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I was referring to your comment as unwise. What is a "high crime" or "misdemeanor" |
Hosnon |
Aug-23-09 04:33 PM |
#72 |
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By your definition, Bush committed no impeachable offenses. nt |
geek tragedy |
Aug-23-09 04:42 PM |
#74 |
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No. Just as any criminal still committed the crime beyond the statute of limitations. |
Hosnon |
Aug-23-09 04:57 PM |
#77 |
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Right. Nutjobs like John Dean. |
EFerrari |
Aug-23-09 05:02 PM |
#82 |
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Dean's main qualification when discussing criminal law is the fact |
geek tragedy |
Aug-23-09 08:04 PM |
#96 |
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You must be kidding. He's the reason Nixon was forced to resign. |
EFerrari |
Aug-23-09 09:42 PM |
#106 |
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Here you go: |
EFerrari |
Aug-23-09 04:23 PM |
#68 |
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0. |
geek tragedy |
Aug-23-09 04:40 PM |
#73 |
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I think I'll still go with international experts like this prosecutor, |
EFerrari |
Aug-23-09 04:51 PM |
#76 |
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You need to go no further than Article 2, Section 4 of the U.S. Constitution. nt. |
Hosnon |
Aug-23-09 04:58 PM |
#79 |
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This is Scot Horton on why Holder may appoint a special prosecutor: |
EFerrari |
Aug-23-09 05:17 PM |
#85 |
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I think the United Nations Convention against Torture would run up against the Constitution and |
Hosnon |
Aug-23-09 05:18 PM |
#86 |
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There is also the War Crimes Act to consider. |
EFerrari |
Aug-23-09 05:25 PM |
#89 |
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He's probably obligated to investigate under international law but, psh, what is that? |
Hosnon |
Aug-23-09 05:29 PM |
#92 |
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You are misreading the UN Convention completely |
HamdenRice |
Aug-24-09 06:00 AM |
#118 |
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Some things to think about... WHO are the torturers in all of these legal scenarios? |
Curtland1015 |
Aug-23-09 05:40 PM |
#93 |
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There's all kinds of evidence from video tape to memos to witnesses |
EFerrari |
Aug-23-09 05:44 PM |
#94 |
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The President doesn't issue indictments. The Justice Department does that |
Freddie Stubbs |
Aug-23-09 06:03 PM |
#95 |
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It doesn't matter, the moment you use the word "impeachment" - dialog here shuts down. |
Political Heretic |
Aug-23-09 08:10 PM |
#97 |
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No. |
H2O Man |
Aug-23-09 08:15 PM |
#100 |
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No. And who would do this impeaching of Obama for |
subcomhd |
Aug-23-09 08:29 PM |
#101 |
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We're going to impeach Obama over Bush/Cheney's crimes? |
Stephanie |
Aug-23-09 08:32 PM |
#102 |
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I really don't think the OP meant to attack Obama |
EFerrari |
Aug-23-09 09:53 PM |
#108 |
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In a perfect world, the obvious answer is yes. But this isn't a perfect world. |
armyowalgreens |
Aug-23-09 08:33 PM |
#103 |
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Forget the Constitution, everybody else has. |
mmonk |
Aug-23-09 09:45 PM |
#107 |
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wow, the poll results certainly aren't consistent with the rec-unrec status on the OP |
flakban |
Aug-23-09 09:54 PM |
#109 |
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The OPer split the No vote 3 ways. More people voted No than Yes |
HamdenRice |
Aug-24-09 06:31 AM |
#122 |
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Here's how I see it... |
flakban |
Aug-24-09 01:35 PM |
#128 |
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Errr... Huffington Post is reporting that the Justice department *WILL* probably pursue |
Liberal_Stalwart71 |
Aug-24-09 05:49 AM |
#115 |
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... only a few "bad apples," like with the Abu Graib farce. |
Senator |
Aug-24-09 06:08 AM |
#119 |
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Nice splitting of the no votes |
WeDidIt |
Aug-24-09 06:42 AM |
#124 |
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Other. |
SidneyCarton |
Aug-24-09 01:36 PM |
#129 |
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So we are going to impeach Obama for not investigating |
walldude |
Aug-24-09 01:40 PM |
#130 |
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ROFLMAO!! OK So what's the Official Obama-haters, PUMA, Trotskyite Mob, Day 1 Impeachers excuse now? |
HamdenRice |
Aug-24-09 02:12 PM |
#134 |
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