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Reply #16: There Are Separate Things Going On, Sir, That Should Not Be Conflated [View All]

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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Sat Aug-01-09 02:24 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. There Are Separate Things Going On, Sir, That Should Not Be Conflated
Edited on Sat Aug-01-09 02:25 AM by The Magistrate
First, there is large group of political reactionaries attempting to move people to act against their own best economic and social interests by persuading them their problems are owing to the moral imperfections, mostly sexual behavior, of other people, and not to the systematic extraction of money from their pockets into those of the wealthy. In doing this, they brandish the standard of Christian faith. They proclaim it a religious duty to engage in hate speech and restrict the civil rights of many citizens by law, and protest that opposition to this, disagreement with it, any social or legal restriction on it, is interfering with their free exercise of religion, and flows only from bigotry against their religion.

Second, there is the question of genuine critique of a set of religious beliefs. People are entitled to form and hold their own beliefs on religious questions, and are under no obligation to agree with any particular body of beliefs, or to refrain from commenting on what seem to them the flaws in any body of religious beliefs. Persons who do give credit and adherence to a particular body of religious beliefs can have no reasonable expectation, and certainly have no right, to never meet with any expression of disagreement with that body of beliefs, even if that disagreement is so total as to constitute complete disrespect for their beliefs. Nor do such persons have the right to be taken seriously when they cry such expressions of disagreement with or distaste for their beliefs is simply an expression of bigotry. In the overwhelming proportion of instances, such expressions are far from bigotry: in my experience the most vigorous disdain for religious beliefs is found among people who are more familiar with the doctrines and practices they assail than the average person in the Sunday pews.
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  Isn't the phrase "anti-Christian bigotry" ruggerson  Jul-31-09 09:58 PM   #0 
   and, btw  ruggerson   Jul-31-09 10:09 PM   #1 
   Its Real Meaning, Sir, Is "Being As Critical Of Fundamentalist Christians As They Are Of Others"  The Magistrate   Jul-31-09 10:12 PM   #2 
      exactly  ruggerson   Jul-31-09 10:13 PM   #4 
      Except that it isn't just used against "fundamentalist Christians", Sir...  regnaD kciN   Jul-31-09 10:26 PM   #5 
      Not Of Any Particular Interest To Me, Sir  The Magistrate   Jul-31-09 10:46 PM   #7 
      perfectly articulated  ruggerson   Aug-01-09 01:10 AM   #9 
      And there you have it.  TexasObserver   Aug-01-09 06:55 AM   #34 
      What Magistrate said +1  spiritual_gunfighter   Aug-01-09 06:34 AM   #31 
      The problem is..  sendero   Aug-01-09 10:23 PM   #39 
      Dropping the word "fundamentalist" enhances the meaning of the phrase.  Occulus   Aug-01-09 02:04 AM   #13 
      --moved downthread...intended as response to OP...sorry--  saltpoint   Aug-01-09 03:52 AM   #22 
      Quoted for Truth.  TexasObserver   Aug-01-09 06:49 AM   #33 
   The majority of Americans are Christians.  baldguy   Jul-31-09 10:12 PM   #3 
   If the label fits,...! Bigotry is wrong no matter the group it is directed against!  DailyGrind51   Jul-31-09 10:29 PM   #6 
   Yep, like reverse racism and heterophobia.  marmar   Jul-31-09 10:48 PM   #8 
   No, it's practiced here. It is bloodsport to mock Christians and their  DainBramaged   Aug-01-09 01:52 AM   #10 
   Beliefs are changeable and some SHOULD be ridiculed.  Ladyhawk   Aug-01-09 02:02 AM   #11 
      (sigh) bullshit, I don't ridicule people for NOT believing in Christianity  DainBramaged   Aug-01-09 02:05 AM   #14 
         In the dozens of times I have faced down Fred Phelps and his ilk  Bluenorthwest   Aug-01-09 10:47 AM   #37 
            Because I don't turn the other fucking cheek  DainBramaged   Aug-01-09 10:18 PM   #38 
               Deleted message  Name removed   Aug-01-09 10:32 PM   #40 
               "Because I don't turn the other fucking cheek". Wasn't it Jesus the Son of God leader  bertman   Aug-02-09 01:30 AM   #45 
   Help! Help! I'm being repressed!  Ladyhawk   Aug-01-09 02:03 AM   #12 
   lol  ruggerson   Aug-01-09 10:19 AM   #36 
      Yes. :) A picture is worth a thousand words. nt  Ladyhawk   Aug-01-09 11:36 PM   #42 
   The problem is that (on DU at least) the criticism never stops at Right wingers.  anonymous171   Aug-01-09 02:07 AM   #15 
   There Are Separate Things Going On, Sir, That Should Not Be Conflated  The Magistrate   Aug-01-09 02:24 AM   #16 
   Oh I understand the current situation.  anonymous171   Aug-01-09 02:27 AM   #17 
   A wheel barrow full of words defending the right of many here to be anti-Christian bigots  DainBramaged   Aug-01-09 02:31 AM   #18 
   Each Side Uses The Tactics It Feels Best Suited To Its Situation, Sir  The Magistrate   Aug-01-09 02:41 AM   #19 
      Find me a thread and then lecture yourself  DainBramaged   Aug-01-09 02:46 AM   #20 
   100% agreement here.  daedalus_dude   Aug-01-09 06:16 AM   #29 
   "disdain for religious beliefs is found among people ... familiar with the doctrines  TexasObserver   Aug-01-09 07:01 AM   #35 
   Why should only right-wingers be criticized?  uberllama42   Aug-01-09 06:36 AM   #32 
   I just want separation of church and state (and science)  gmoney   Aug-01-09 02:58 AM   #21 
   The pastor of a Texas Baptist church publicly condemned Jimmy Carter  saltpoint   Aug-01-09 03:59 AM   #23 
   I've always found it interesting that most people who call themselves  johnaries   Aug-01-09 04:01 AM   #24 
   Paul did a James Baker on the Jerusalem group. Paul likely had  saltpoint   Aug-01-09 04:17 AM   #25 
   I agree. I didn't really appreciate Jesus until I became an Atheist.  Odin2005   Aug-02-09 12:17 AM   #44 
   I sort of have a problem with religion being given the same status ...  daedalus_dude   Aug-01-09 06:07 AM   #26 
   Religions are chosen behavior to a degree but they are not value-neutral  slackmaster   Aug-01-09 06:12 AM   #28 
   I'm Agnostic and I have to Unrec this attempted exercise in group narcissism and self-congratulation  slackmaster   Aug-01-09 06:10 AM   #27 
   Another buzzword is "anti-military bigotry"  daedalus_dude   Aug-01-09 06:23 AM   #30 
   Agree -- it also blocks the reality of how Christianity and Fundi religons/  defendandprotect   Aug-01-09 11:18 PM   #41 
   Answer to the OP: Yes, it is.  Odin2005   Aug-01-09 11:40 PM   #43 
 

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