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Reply #71: The public requirement was NOT meet-there was no risk of pubic violence [View All]

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Gothmog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-31-09 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #67
71. The public requirement was NOT meet-there was no risk of pubic violence
You are not reading the law correctly. The so-called illegal conduct has to be in public where it can lead to public violence. Here is yet another explanation http://www.pr-inside.com/why-gates-should-sue-not-socia...
Even if Gates' statements to Crowley were offensive and abusive, Massachusetts has held that such expression is constitutionally protected by the First Amendment unless the words constitute "fighting words which by their very utterance tend to incite an immediate breach of the peace."

Since the police report states that there "were several Cambridge and Harvard University police officers assembled on the sidewalk" at the time, and no indication that any of the "seven unidentified passers-by" were anything more than curious, it seems doubtful that anything Gates said would tend to "incite an immediate breach of the peace" under the circumstances, or that anyone would fear physical violence from a middle-aged man with a cane surrounded by police.

This conclusion is consistent with Massachusetts jury instructions which list the following elements of the crime of disorderly conduct which the police must be able to prove beyond a reasonable doubt: 1. The defendant engaged in fighting or threatening, or engaged in violent or tumultuous behavior, or created a hazardous or physically offensive condition by an act that served no legitimate purpose, AND 2. The defendant’s actions were reasonably likely to affect the public, AND 3. The defendant either intended to cause public inconvenience, annoyance or alarm, or recklessly created a risk of public inconvenience, annoyance or alarm.
Under the Mass. jury instruction, it is clear that the so-called public requirement was not met. The pubic was not effected and there reckless risk of public alarm. The public requirement can only be satisfied if Prof. Gates behavior would have an adverse effect on these bystanders and no reasonable fact finder would find this to be the case
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  -Crowley bringing lawyer to Beer Summit-Is this Sign of Weakness? Gothmog  Jul-30-09 10:21 AM   #0 
  - or they plan to 'bully'  ensho   Jul-30-09 10:23 AM   #1 
  - I believe it is fairly routine union procedure.  JohnnyLib2   Jul-30-09 10:23 AM   #2 
  - Nope, it's a sign that Crowley has lost his leverage  rocktivity   Jul-30-09 10:28 AM   #3 
  - exactly. accepted. truth comes out. uh oh. nt  seabeyond   Jul-30-09 10:38 AM   #8 
  - Maybe they'll arrest Obama in his home? n/t  FSogol   Jul-30-09 10:30 AM   #4 
  - Obama better not act 'uppity'  Fuzz   Jul-30-09 11:12 AM   #17 
  - Yeah, I'd hate to see Crowley call in the units and frog-march Obama out of HIS house.  Sal Minella   Jul-30-09 11:40 AM   #20 
  - Well, they know better than that.  sabrina 1   Jul-30-09 01:53 PM   #32 
  - Sounds like Crowley has some skeletons he would like to keep in the dark  madokie   Jul-30-09 10:31 AM   #5 
  - I thought Crowley was not a union member?  rurallib   Jul-30-09 10:35 AM   #6 
  - not sure  Bombero1956   Jul-30-09 12:04 PM   #27 
  - Crowley is afraid Obama and Gates are going to tag team disrespect him.  Fumesucker   Jul-30-09 10:36 AM   #7 
  - Unbelievable!  kentuck   Jul-30-09 10:44 AM   #9 
  - Does Gates get to bring his people too? Will Obama have legal representation?  enough   Jul-30-09 10:45 AM   #10 
  - Crowley is a liar, he needs all the help he can get.  Graybeard   Jul-30-09 10:55 AM   #11 
  - Truly pathetic, but very republican. Probably afraid the Negroes would steal his beer. n/t  theothersnippywshrub   Jul-30-09 11:00 AM   #12 
  - Ahh, the perfect icebreaker...  moondust   Jul-30-09 11:03 AM   #13 
  - Gates said he might sue. I'd want a mouthpiece there, too.  Dreamer Tatum   Jul-30-09 11:03 AM   #14 
  - Prof. Gates has a summary judgment case against Crowley  Gothmog   Jul-30-09 11:48 AM   #22 
     - No one knows what would happen, actually nt  Dreamer Tatum   Jul-30-09 12:00 PM   #25 
     - Why on earth are you wasting your psychic talents -here-?  KDFW   Jul-30-09 12:02 PM   #26 
     - Here is Lawerence O'Donnell's piece on this  Gothmog   Jul-30-09 01:05 PM   #29 
        - Great...hope The West Wing has a courtroom set they can use  Dreamer Tatum   Jul-30-09 01:41 PM   #31 
           - Who is Lawrence O'Donnell? You don't watch MSNBC programs much do you?  4lbs   Jul-30-09 02:06 PM   #35 
           - You mention The West Wing and don't know who O'Donnell is!?  ColbertWatcher   Jul-30-09 06:32 PM   #48 
              - Exactly...he's a writer and a producer, not a lawyer or a judgent  Dreamer Tatum   Jul-30-09 08:08 PM   #55 
                 - Um ...  ColbertWatcher   Jul-30-09 08:50 PM   #59 
     - no such thing  TorchTheWitch   Jul-30-09 03:52 PM   #36 
        - Summary Judgments are appropriate whenever there are no fact issues  Gothmog   Jul-30-09 05:49 PM   #43 
           - I wasn't aware "fighting words" were required for a d/c arrest??  Hassin Bin Sober   Jul-30-09 06:22 PM   #44 
              - SCOTUS has ruled that First Amendment protects speech to the police  Gothmog   Jul-30-09 06:33 PM   #49 
                 - Speech to police is protected, yes. That's why Crowley included seven bystanders in his report.  Hassin Bin Sober   Jul-30-09 08:04 PM   #54 
                    - Criminal complaint has been dismissed  Gothmog   Jul-30-09 08:13 PM   #57 
                       - I'm aware the criminal case was dismissed.  Hassin Bin Sober   Jul-30-09 08:24 PM   #58 
                          - This still does not satisfy public disturbance element  Gothmog   Jul-31-09 12:02 PM   #63 
                             - According to Crowley's report, the public element WAS met.  Hassin Bin Sober   Jul-31-09 12:52 PM   #65 
                                - Public requirement NOT met-you can not count police  Gothmog   Jul-31-09 03:57 PM   #66 
                                   - I don't know why you are saying it was only police present. From the arrest report:  Hassin Bin Sober   Jul-31-09 04:55 PM   #67 
                                      - What part of that do you think is true? And where are all those  EFerrari   Jul-31-09 04:59 PM   #68 
                                      - I don't believe cops as far as I can throw them.  Hassin Bin Sober   Jul-31-09 05:05 PM   #69 
                                         - Walen was there, and it is possible that a few people stopped to look  EFerrari   Jul-31-09 05:07 PM   #70 
                                      - The public requirement was NOT meet-there was no risk of pubic violence  Gothmog   Jul-31-09 05:09 PM   #71 
                                         - We're going around in circles here.  Hassin Bin Sober   Jul-31-09 06:49 PM   #72 
                                            - You are ignoring the law-The SCOTUS limits this law to "Fighting Words"  Gothmog   Aug-01-09 12:02 AM   #73 
                                            - The author above is ignoring the law? You posted it. Now you don't agree with it?  Hassin Bin Sober   Aug-01-09 11:14 AM   #74 
                                            - You are free to ignore the law but the SCOTUS trumps your analysis  Gothmog   Aug-01-09 11:52 AM   #75 
                                               - The case you presented doesn't say what you think/say it does.  Hassin Bin Sober   Aug-01-09 04:24 PM   #76 
                                                  - The Case is applicable and it is you who does not understand the law here  Gothmog   Aug-01-09 08:45 PM   #77 
  - he's an intellectual midget drinking beers with intellectual giants  datasuspect   Jul-30-09 11:09 AM   #15 
  - No need to insult Professor Gates.... He is probably tired  whistler162   Jul-30-09 07:33 PM   #53 
     - are you saying the cop is an intellectual?  datasuspect   Jul-31-09 07:04 AM   #61 
  - Where does it say  dogtag   Jul-30-09 11:11 AM   #16 
  - A reflection of the kind of cop/person he is. A bully and a coward.  Raschel   Jul-30-09 11:34 AM   #18 
  - Yep.  BlooInBloo   Jul-30-09 01:54 PM   #33 
  - but.... the bully truly is the coward. nt  seabeyond   Jul-30-09 01:59 PM   #34 
  - FOR GODS SAKE...This beer thing was supposed to be a friendly beer to patch things  opihimoimoi   Jul-30-09 11:40 AM   #19 
  - LOL  HiFructosePronSyrup   Jul-30-09 11:41 AM   #21 
  - If I were to invite a couple of guys over for a beer,  pnorman   Jul-30-09 11:54 AM   #23 
  - Uggh what a jerk & coward  ecstatic   Jul-30-09 11:56 AM   #24 
  - What a coward. This guy just proves more and more what a dork he is.  TexasObserver   Jul-30-09 12:07 PM   #28 
  - They don't have to let  cloudbase   Jul-30-09 01:32 PM   #30 
  - will the lawyer get a percentage of the beer?  lame54   Jul-30-09 04:03 PM   #37 
  - !  Strong Atheist   Jul-30-09 06:27 PM   #46 
  - i didn't realize obama invited crowley to bring his whole fucking posse. n/t  orleans   Jul-30-09 04:13 PM   #38 
  - HA! It figures. Too many powerful black folks in one place.  Fire1   Jul-30-09 04:36 PM   #39 
  - Or, the union wants a shot at hooking up with the president..  EFerrari   Jul-30-09 04:39 PM   #40 
     - I'll never believe that. If the President was white, yes.  Fire1   Jul-30-09 04:45 PM   #41 
        - I understand and largely agree with you. But these same people  EFerrari   Jul-30-09 04:47 PM   #42 
        - didn't another call Gates a "jungle monkey"?  zbdent   Jul-30-09 06:30 PM   #47 
  - Crowley is himself a walking, talking sign of weakness.  BlooInBloo   Jul-30-09 06:26 PM   #45 
  - B-b-but ...  ColbertWatcher   Jul-30-09 06:34 PM   #50 
     - "I'm glad Joe is here, in case you two try to jump me."  BlooInBloo   Jul-30-09 06:37 PM   #51 
        - ...  ColbertWatcher   Jul-30-09 07:29 PM   #52 
  - Could be a sign....  gleaner   Jul-30-09 08:09 PM   #56 
  - Lawyer and Union Pres. were at Crowley's press conference  Gothmog   Jul-31-09 07:04 AM   #60 
  - He is not highly educated. He needs some people around him at this thing.  Tim01   Jul-31-09 07:16 AM   #62 
  - and professor gates brought his attorney  onenote   Jul-31-09 12:15 PM   #64 
 

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