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Reply #105: Not in context. Nobody is calling for socialized medicine. [View All]

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TheKentuckian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-28-09 12:54 AM
Response to Reply #16
105. Not in context. Nobody is calling for socialized medicine.
In context single payer is the left most position in the debate. It is regrettable that it was not given consideration but there isn't the groundswell of support that many think they see for it. So, it has few dependable votes in the legislature and less than a plurality of solid support in the electorate. Maybe, if more non-voters got of their asses this would have some momentum but the real deal is more people would leave it as is than do something as revolutionary as single payer once the fear machine went full bore. Much more so than now.

You're talking relative extinction for the insurance companies, they'd dump BILLIONS into the media. BILLIONS with a B to stave that off. Going that far with an option plan would probably be an overplay of their hand, an admission they can't provide reasonable service at fair prices.

In the case of the national discussion I believe you are inventing a position that no one is taking to frame yours as middle of the road. I think it is ineffective as it comes of as dishonest despite being technically truthful.

Socializing medicine may be a step that has to be taken too but I can't imagine anyone that checks in on reality from time to time thinks it is something that has much Democratic much less general American support. Not even enough to bring up beyond brainstorming.
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  -The Single Payer Action group has a new project. Discredit Dean. madfloridian  Jul-27-09 06:41 PM   #0 
  - So feel free to get those unrecommends ready.... because..  madfloridian   Jul-27-09 06:43 PM   #1 
  - Recommended. Attacking Dean is disgusting.  bobbolink   Jul-27-09 08:07 PM   #57 
  - They are all-or-nothing zealots who understand little, if anything, about how the world works  Freddie Stubbs   Jul-27-09 06:48 PM   #2 
  - I have an even darker notion...  Jackpine Radical   Jul-27-09 06:55 PM   #3 
  - BS, it's a totally different scenario.  ContinentalOp   Jul-27-09 07:09 PM   #17 
  - Then make sure we get nothing at all.  madfloridian   Jul-27-09 07:12 PM   #23 
  - Single payer couldn't be taken off of the table because it was never on the table to begin with  Freddie Stubbs   Jul-27-09 07:20 PM   #33 
     - Exactly.  ContinentalOp   Jul-27-09 07:23 PM   #36 
  - More proof of who is "naderizing" the debate. Dean seems to think S.P. and P.O. are the same thing.  ContinentalOp   Jul-27-09 08:17 PM   #63 
  - And the world works different in American, whereas, much of the rest of the civilized world...  Oregone   Jul-27-09 06:56 PM   #5 
     - You think I am making excuses for failed leaders?  madfloridian   Jul-27-09 07:00 PM   #7 
     - Yes. Its getting tired  Oregone   Jul-27-09 07:02 PM   #8 
        - Well, that is very clear how you view me. Thanks for the honesty.  madfloridian   Jul-27-09 07:04 PM   #10 
        - You are welcome  Oregone   Jul-27-09 07:05 PM   #12 
        - Then wear a medal...  madfloridian   Jul-27-09 07:07 PM   #14 
           - Single-payer is a centrist compromise  Oregone   Jul-27-09 07:08 PM   #16 
           - Well, then continue your quest for perfection.  madfloridian   Jul-27-09 07:11 PM   #20 
           - You don't find perfection.  Oregone   Jul-27-09 07:15 PM   #26 
              - I have fought hard here for rights for everyone.  madfloridian   Jul-27-09 07:19 PM   #31 
                 - Yes, it makes me feel much better  Oregone   Jul-27-09 07:22 PM   #34 
                 - "We should be working together to get the best we can get."  edc   Jul-29-09 11:26 AM   #130 
           - In a single payer system for profit insurance might exist but it wouldn't be  nosmokes   Jul-27-09 07:32 PM   #44 
           - Im not confused  Oregone   Jul-27-09 07:34 PM   #45 
              - Then how on earth do you come to the conclusion single payer is a  nosmokes   Jul-27-09 07:46 PM   #51 
                 - Ah...thats where you missed it.  Oregone   Jul-27-09 07:54 PM   #53 
           - Not in context. Nobody is calling for socialized medicine.  TheKentuckian   Jul-28-09 12:54 AM   #105 
           - I am. I don't care how they get there but help everyone. Cover everyone.  glinda   Jul-28-09 05:30 PM   #124 
           - Look, many Americans believe the propaganda about how awful  JDPriestly   Jul-28-09 11:02 AM   #114 
           - It is also quite possible to understand that on some issues,  SleeplessInAlabama   Jul-27-09 07:32 PM   #43 
              - "You act as though the people on this board will be on the floor voting on the bill OR that their"  Oregone   Jul-27-09 07:35 PM   #46 
                 - You obviously want me to die in a gutter somewhere!  ContinentalOp   Jul-27-09 08:09 PM   #59 
        - why not see if registered Dems get covered by the same Federal Plan as our  KakistocracyHater   Jul-27-09 10:02 PM   #93 
        - "Hold them to a real standard."  MilesColtrane   Jul-27-09 09:13 PM   #78 
           - Or leave  Oregone   Jul-27-09 09:49 PM   #88 
              - Don't you have something Canadian to do?  MilesColtrane   Jul-27-09 09:52 PM   #90 
                 - Im doing it  Oregone   Jul-27-09 10:51 PM   #97 
                    - Really?  MilesColtrane   Jul-27-09 11:07 PM   #98 
                       - If thats what they are strategizing for...  Oregone   Jul-27-09 11:10 PM   #99 
                          - You guess wrong.  MilesColtrane   Jul-28-09 12:07 AM   #102 
     - self deleted  MilesColtrane   Jul-27-09 09:11 PM   #76 
  - I wrote the leadership of the Progressive Caucus and asked them to vote "no."  Laelth   Jul-27-09 06:56 PM   #4 
  - Then let us have nothing.  madfloridian   Jul-27-09 06:59 PM   #6 
  - I have tremendous respect for you, madfloridian.  Laelth   Jul-27-09 07:22 PM   #35 
  - We don't know the final form. Only what committees have let leak.  madfloridian   Jul-27-09 07:31 PM   #41 
  - Madfloridian, I almost always agree with you, but this bill looks like a  Lydia Leftcoast   Jul-27-09 08:36 PM   #70 
     - Dean DID speak against the Senate version on Rachel's show tonight.  madfloridian   Jul-27-09 09:13 PM   #77 
     - I don't have cable anymore, so I don't see any talking heads shows  Lydia Leftcoast   Jul-27-09 09:20 PM   #80 
     - Well, the man they are attacking protesting and calling a liar  madfloridian   Jul-27-09 09:22 PM   #81 
        - It's not about Dean, and it's not about you  Lydia Leftcoast   Jul-28-09 09:54 AM   #110 
           - I have been doing just that. So where's the difference?  madfloridian   Jul-28-09 10:53 AM   #113 
     - Madfloridian, you are to be commended for standing up for  suzie   Jul-28-09 10:08 AM   #111 
     - Beautifully said, Lydia Leftcoast. n/t  Laelth   Jul-29-09 10:16 AM   #129 
  - Gee, thanks  prolesunited   Jul-27-09 07:04 PM   #11 
     - You will anyway  Oregone   Jul-27-09 07:07 PM   #15 
     - For you, the bills currently under consideration are better than nothing, I admit.  Laelth   Jul-27-09 07:26 PM   #38 
  - Damn all-or-nothing fucks.  BlooInBloo   Jul-27-09 07:03 PM   #9 
  - Fuck all-or-nothing damners  Oregone   Jul-27-09 07:06 PM   #13 
     - Without compromise, nothing would get done.  armyowalgreens   Jul-27-09 07:09 PM   #18 
     - This "compromise" crap argument operates on the premise that...  Oregone   Jul-27-09 07:13 PM   #24 
        - I never said single-payer is the end of the road.  armyowalgreens   Jul-27-09 07:17 PM   #28 
        - "In turn, you are willing to let others suffer" -- Quite the opposite  Oregone   Jul-27-09 07:20 PM   #32 
           - A step towards what?  armyowalgreens   Jul-27-09 07:26 PM   #37 
              - Single-Payer=socialized *insurance*. Have you not heard of socialized health CARE?  Oregone   Jul-27-09 07:32 PM   #42 
                 - hmmm yeah I apparently forgot about socialized for some reason.  armyowalgreens   Jul-27-09 07:45 PM   #49 
        - Just curious, if single payer is the "centrist" position  Still Sensible   Jul-27-09 07:18 PM   #30 
           - It is centrist, yes.  Oregone   Jul-27-09 07:27 PM   #39 
     - The people who say this is all or nothing are the ones who have successfully "naderized" the issue  ContinentalOp   Jul-27-09 07:12 PM   #22 
     - I completely agree  Oregone   Jul-27-09 07:17 PM   #29 
     - Blame it on the people who were not invited to the discussions  slipslidingaway   Jul-27-09 09:32 PM   #83 
        - For the record I agree with you.  ContinentalOp   Jul-27-09 09:41 PM   #86 
           - I should have added the sarcasm tag....  slipslidingaway   Jul-27-09 09:46 PM   #87 
              - ok, I thought so, but wasn't sure at first.  ContinentalOp   Jul-27-09 09:54 PM   #91 
                 - My post is the one that was confusing....  slipslidingaway   Jul-27-09 09:56 PM   #92 
     - Incrementalism is the only way anything gets done in this country.  anonymous171   Jul-27-09 09:40 PM   #85 
  - Keep those unrecommends coming fast and furious. Don't compare the video  madfloridian   Jul-27-09 07:10 PM   #19 
  - I rec'd your thread  ipaint   Jul-27-09 07:46 PM   #50 
  - Let's ask for the least we think we can get  Mythsaje   Jul-27-09 07:12 PM   #21 
  - Well, unrecs have taken down from 4.  madfloridian   Jul-27-09 07:13 PM   #25 
  - Why don't they discredit the Republicans or obstructionist Dems?  undeterred   Jul-27-09 07:17 PM   #27 
  - Because they believe Dean co-opted their efforts.  madfloridian   Jul-27-09 07:28 PM   #40 
  - They are all politicians.  ipaint   Jul-27-09 07:42 PM   #48 
     - What a convenient fall back argument when someone is speaking truth.  madfloridian   Jul-27-09 08:00 PM   #54 
        - And he's shilling for bio firms for a living.  ipaint   Jul-27-09 08:08 PM   #58 
           - Shilling.  madfloridian   Jul-27-09 08:11 PM   #60 
              - Thanks for the correction- Shill. n/t.  ipaint   Jul-27-09 08:20 PM   #64 
                 - Dean was just on Rachel's show "shilling" away.  madfloridian   Jul-27-09 08:31 PM   #68 
  - They have....people forget...."Make it the Baucus 13"  slipslidingaway   Jul-27-09 08:43 PM   #73 
  - Why are people trying to discredit single-payer advocates? ...  slipslidingaway   Jul-27-09 07:41 PM   #47 
  - Senate HELP amendment on "data exclusivity"  slipslidingaway   Jul-27-09 08:03 PM   #55 
  - Thank you. I've been annoyed with Dean ever since he sent out an email calling for signatures...  ContinentalOp   Jul-27-09 08:15 PM   #62 
  - I really do not understand why Dean is trying to confuse the issues...  slipslidingaway   Jul-27-09 08:24 PM   #65 
  - If this were an OP  abumbyanyothername   Jul-27-09 08:30 PM   #67 
  - Thank you :))) n/t  slipslidingaway   Jul-27-09 08:36 PM   #71 
  - This would make an excellent OP  leftstreet   Jul-28-09 12:38 AM   #104 
     - Thanks, maybe later on this evening, although I would prefer to  slipslidingaway   Jul-28-09 12:42 PM   #118 
  - I would love to see HR 676 pass, but it can't even get out of  johnaries   Jul-27-09 07:53 PM   #52 
  - That shows the influence of the For Profit companies, we need people  slipslidingaway   Jul-27-09 08:06 PM   #56 
  - Single-payer people need to accept some of the responsibility.  bobbolink   Jul-27-09 08:12 PM   #61 
  - "We should be working together to get the best we can get. "  Uzybone   Jul-27-09 08:26 PM   #66 
  - I don't think there's much difference between single payer and a strong public option  Time for change   Jul-27-09 08:31 PM   #69 
  - Nice comment that gets right to the point.  madfloridian   Jul-27-09 08:40 PM   #72 
  - This is what Dean told AHIP when he spoke at their convention...  slipslidingaway   Jul-27-09 08:54 PM   #74 
     - I'm not sure what your point is  Time for change   Jul-28-09 11:20 AM   #115 
        - That all seems far too pragmatic for the "single-payer" folks.  suzie   Jul-28-09 11:57 AM   #116 
        - That is why I copied your sentence in my reply and posted the  slipslidingaway   Jul-28-09 01:11 PM   #119 
           - Ok, I see what you mean  Time for change   Jul-29-09 02:27 PM   #132 
              - Even before there were any draft plans available Dean was saying  slipslidingaway   Jul-29-09 03:47 PM   #133 
                 - I'm totally with you on the idea of not getting behind plans until we know what they are  Time for change   Jul-29-09 04:38 PM   #134 
                    - Glad to hear that we agree on supporting an unknown plan ...  slipslidingaway   Jul-30-09 09:58 AM   #135 
  - Why aren't these people protesting outside the Capitol?  Sebastian Doyle   Jul-27-09 08:59 PM   #75 
  - They are doing that as well, but Dean has been confusing the terms  slipslidingaway   Jul-27-09 09:24 PM   #82 
     - Baloney. They did not get arrested because of Dean.  madfloridian   Jul-27-09 10:14 PM   #95 
        - What the hell are you talking about, did you read the post I replied  slipslidingaway   Jul-27-09 11:26 PM   #100 
  - PS Dean spoke out against the Senate again tonight on Rachel.  madfloridian   Jul-27-09 09:14 PM   #79 
  - Please stop with the "madfloridian i usually respect you" stuff.  madfloridian   Jul-27-09 09:37 PM   #84 
  - I expected this would happen.  Odin2005   Jul-27-09 09:50 PM   #89 
  - .....  madfloridian   Jul-27-09 11:39 PM   #101 
     - Ugh, people suck!  Odin2005   Jul-28-09 06:50 AM   #106 
     - Doing a good job on this, madfloridian.  suzie   Jul-29-09 08:04 AM   #128 
  - Bill Moyers - Dr. Marcia Angell speaks an inconvenient about our health system that no public plan w  slipslidingaway   Jul-27-09 10:04 PM   #94 
  - Recommended. Dr. Dean should have been named Surgeon General.  Vidar   Jul-27-09 10:39 PM   #96 
  - Rachel Maddow and "shiller" Dean on her show tonight. Video link  madfloridian   Jul-28-09 12:35 AM   #103 
  - These actions from the left are unconscionable and beyond stupid  karynnj   Jul-28-09 08:42 AM   #107 
  - I agree and wrote to DFA about that issue.  madfloridian   Jul-28-09 10:29 AM   #112 
     - thanks - it is great to know that they have heard from someone  karynnj   Jul-28-09 12:03 PM   #117 
  - Didn't you post most of this in another dicsussion a few days ago?????  George II   Jul-28-09 08:43 AM   #108 
  - Just wanted to acknowledge your replies in the thread below...  slipslidingaway   Jul-29-09 01:10 PM   #131 
  - Obama let the genie out of the bottle  disndat   Jul-28-09 09:51 AM   #109 
  - Who are these people and who is funding them?  varelse   Jul-28-09 01:39 PM   #120 
  - Here is their contact page with names.  madfloridian   Jul-28-09 01:46 PM   #121 
  - Perfection is the enemy of the good. Perfect example. nt  mistertrickster   Jul-28-09 02:05 PM   #122 
  - In doing so, they discredit themselves.  mzmolly   Jul-28-09 03:12 PM   #123 
  - Here's a group giving out leaflets and harassing him in Seattle...fake blood smeared on them.  madfloridian   Jul-28-09 05:44 PM   #125 
  - We need to send a copy of this  JNelson6563   Jul-28-09 05:49 PM   #126 
  - If they want single payer, I can tell them in whose shit they should be. (Hint: It Ain't Dr. Dean)  Stinky The Clown   Jul-28-09 05:49 PM   #127 
  - Other Democrats being hassled as well. Part of efforts by these groups?  madfloridian   Jul-31-09 02:19 PM   #136 
 

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