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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #88
93. Thanks, Gothmog, for this...
It was your original thread on this regarding Massachusetts law that brought my attention to the requirements.
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  -It was Sgt. Crowley who BROKE the law and he did it very soon after he arrived... Spazito  Jul-26-09 11:08 AM   #0 
  - Nah. As critical as I've been about how the cops handled this .. I think it's  cboy4   Jul-26-09 11:17 AM   #1 
  - It is State law...  Spazito   Jul-26-09 11:22 AM   #2 
  - It is also law to have to produce a search warrant before entering a house.  cboy4   Jul-26-09 11:38 AM   #4 
  - Boy - what utter and complete BULLSHIT you've posted here...  TankLV   Jul-26-09 11:42 AM   #5 
  - You need to do a search on how critical I've been of this asshole cop.  cboy4   Jul-26-09 11:47 AM   #9 
  - You are forgetting something.....Gates asked him for his ID AFTER the cop had  Th1onein   Jul-26-09 12:47 PM   #42 
     - Read every single thread post before you lecture me, because I'm  cboy4   Jul-26-09 12:55 PM   #50 
     - I read them all. Bzzzt! You lose!  Th1onein   Jul-26-09 01:05 PM   #57 
     - did you see the ID?  mountains539   Jul-26-09 02:09 PM   #85 
  - don't call cops pigs, please -- this is really no better than racial slurs  Bumblebee   Jul-26-09 11:55 AM   #14 
  - Calling cops pigs is NOT on par with racial slurs  Raineyb   Jul-26-09 12:21 PM   #27 
  - It's the same mentality...  MajorChode   Jul-26-09 02:08 PM   #84 
     - a x^2+b x+c = 0  joey5150   Jul-26-09 04:13 PM   #118 
  - Not a "racial slur" but  Cha   Jul-26-09 12:52 PM   #45 
  - I am in the "Crowley went over the line" club, but the passer by (who did not know Gates)  MADem   Jul-26-09 02:47 PM   #96 
     - As far as I know, we have yet to hear from her  MajorChode   Jul-26-09 03:01 PM   #101 
  - So, if I understand you correctly...  Spazito   Jul-26-09 11:43 AM   #7 
  - I have no interest in arguing with you about how this call was handled,  cboy4   Jul-26-09 11:52 AM   #12 
  - I have read your posts, I know you have been very critical of the police actions...  Spazito   Jul-26-09 11:58 AM   #16 
  - The idea that police should stop in the midst of a crime is cartoonish  marshall   Jul-26-09 12:17 PM   #24 
     - The law exists, Sgt. Crowley did not follow it...  Spazito   Jul-26-09 12:21 PM   #28 
     - Deleted message  Name removed   Jul-26-09 12:33 PM   #34 
     - Personal attacks really don't help your argument...  Spazito   Jul-26-09 12:44 PM   #38 
        - You've yet to prove to me that you comprehend what lawful request means.  cboy4   Jul-26-09 12:52 PM   #46 
           - I see you do agree he broke the law, where you and I have a difference is in when, not if,...  Spazito   Jul-26-09 12:56 PM   #52 
     - You did read the qualification within that section?  marshall   Jul-26-09 01:28 PM   #65 
        - There is nothing in the statement you posted with regard to the duties of...  Spazito   Jul-26-09 01:43 PM   #72 
           - The crux of the argument is the meaning of the word "lawful"  marshall   Jul-26-09 02:00 PM   #80 
              - Subsection 98F , by the very fact it is an addendem to the main...  Spazito   Jul-26-09 02:22 PM   #90 
     - Deleted message  Name removed   Jul-26-09 12:29 PM   #32 
     - There was no crime  omega minimo   Jul-26-09 01:12 PM   #61 
  - If you really believe Gates would have calmed down after seeing the cop's ID  geek_sabre   Jul-26-09 02:07 PM   #83 
  - Once Crowley had seen Gates ID, he was required by law to show his own ID..  Fumesucker   Jul-26-09 11:44 AM   #8 
  - Of course. I agree, but that's not what the OP is arguing.....the OP is  cboy4   Jul-26-09 11:56 AM   #15 
  - He lured the man outside by claiming that the acoustics in the  WillieW   Jul-26-09 11:54 AM   #13 
     - Absolutely right  Alcibiades   Jul-26-09 12:20 PM   #25 
        - Ha--good point!  MADem   Jul-26-09 02:51 PM   #98 
  - The law is never simple.  Statistical   Jul-26-09 12:49 PM   #43 
     - Sgt. Crowley did NOT produce his identification card even AFTER..  Spazito   Jul-26-09 12:53 PM   #47 
     - Why don't you read?  cboy4   Jul-26-09 12:58 PM   #53 
        - I did read and responded accordingly on another of your posts on this point n/t  Spazito   Jul-26-09 01:04 PM   #56 
     - I beg to differ  Hutzpa   Jul-26-09 12:56 PM   #51 
        - I never said the law isn't cut and dry. I said it isn't easy.  Statistical   Jul-26-09 01:53 PM   #77 
  - LOL, so Crowley gets to disobey state law while he is  merh   Jul-26-09 11:29 AM   #3 
  - I suggest taking .. at the very least .. an introductory law course at your local  cboy4   Jul-26-09 11:43 AM   #6 
     - The law says nothing about "unless there is exigent circumstances"...  Spazito   Jul-26-09 11:49 AM   #10 
     - It's implied vis-a-vis the fourth amendment warrant exemption(s)  cboy4   Jul-26-09 12:02 PM   #18 
        - No, the burden is on you to prove it was not a lawful request.  merh   Jul-26-09 12:06 PM   #20 
     - I would suggest you take that introductory course.  merh   Jul-26-09 11:52 AM   #11 
        - Deleted sub-thread  Name removed   Jul-26-09 12:09 PM   #22 
  - there was no imminent danger excusing not showing his ID when it was requested  nini   Jul-26-09 12:30 PM   #33 
  - Sorry, but imminent danger is not a legal factor .. forcing a cop  cboy4   Jul-26-09 12:39 PM   #37 
     - sorry.. but the call wouldn't have gotten so HOT if the officer would have done so  nini   Jul-26-09 02:04 PM   #82 
        - Thanks, nini, I appreciate your post on this in terms of the law I used in my OP...  Spazito   Jul-26-09 04:10 PM   #117 
  - until it happens to you n/t  freeplessinseattle   Jul-26-09 01:32 PM   #66 
  - I usually agree with you, but not here  Lorien   Jul-26-09 03:32 PM   #111 
  - The case here is weak at best  MajorChode   Jul-26-09 12:00 PM   #17 
  - Believe me, had Crowley shown his identification card, it would be  merh   Jul-26-09 12:03 PM   #19 
  - Just how can you possibly know that?  MajorChode   Jul-26-09 12:20 PM   #26 
  - One doesn't have to be an expert in police report writing to know that  merh   Jul-26-09 12:34 PM   #36 
     - Again more speculation, no relevant facts  MajorChode   Jul-26-09 12:47 PM   #41 
        - On the contrary.  merh   Jul-26-09 12:54 PM   #49 
           - Deleted message  Name removed   Jul-26-09 01:04 PM   #55 
              - Deleted message  Name removed   Jul-26-09 01:07 PM   #59 
                 - No, you're trying to pass off a non-fact as a fact  MajorChode   Jul-26-09 01:19 PM   #63 
                    - The report reflects Gates gave his name and then gave his ID card.  merh   Jul-26-09 01:42 PM   #70 
                       - Argumentum ad nauseam  MajorChode   Jul-26-09 01:47 PM   #74 
                          - You have yet to refute the facts.  merh   Jul-26-09 01:49 PM   #76 
                             - "facts" that don't exist generally are quite difficult to refute  MajorChode   Jul-26-09 01:59 PM   #79 
                                - You have to understand the purpose of the police report.  merh   Jul-26-09 02:10 PM   #86 
                                   - I don't "have to understand" what you think is it's purpose  MajorChode   Jul-26-09 02:28 PM   #91 
                                      - The purpose of the report is to record the incident and to memorialize  merh   Jul-26-09 02:35 PM   #94 
                                         - Ah yes! The key word here is "pertinent"  MajorChode   Jul-26-09 02:51 PM   #97 
                                            - It is pertinent to the case. Crowley knew that Gates was complaining  merh   Jul-26-09 02:56 PM   #100 
                                               - You win!  MajorChode   Jul-26-09 03:07 PM   #102 
                                               - I've based my argument on Crowley's report and the facts and the absense  merh   Jul-26-09 03:15 PM   #103 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Jul-26-09 03:23 PM   #105 
     - Does the US Flag Code work what way?  merh   Jul-26-09 03:31 PM   #110 
  - The case is quite simple, actually...  Spazito   Jul-26-09 12:08 PM   #21 
  - You're simply trying to pass off speculation as fact  MajorChode   Jul-26-09 12:33 PM   #35 
     - "The law in question is meaningless, irrelevant and a red herring"  Spazito   Jul-26-09 12:50 PM   #44 
        - After failing in the original assertion, now you want to try to rope me into more irrelevancies  MajorChode   Jul-26-09 01:07 PM   #58 
  - Yes. Lawful request means not telling an officer who has three suspected  cboy4   Jul-26-09 12:14 PM   #23 
     - Straw man  glitch   Jul-26-09 12:23 PM   #29 
     - Deleted message  Name removed   Jul-26-09 12:27 PM   #30 
     - Did or did not Dr. Gates make a lawful request when...  Spazito   Jul-26-09 12:27 PM   #31 
        - Here is why Sgt. Crowley wrote that statement  MajorChode   Jul-26-09 12:44 PM   #39 
        - That does NOT answer why Sgt. Crowley did not produce HIS identification...  Spazito   Jul-26-09 01:20 PM   #64 
           - I don't answer loaded questions  MajorChode   Jul-26-09 01:43 PM   #71 
              - I would suggest to you the proof is in that Sgt. Crowley, at NO time, in his report,  Spazito   Jul-26-09 01:46 PM   #73 
                 - I would suggest to you that you might want to bone up on what constitutes proof  MajorChode   Jul-26-09 01:56 PM   #78 
                    - I provided the law as it stands, provided quotes from Sgt. Crowley's official..  Spazito   Jul-26-09 02:03 PM   #81 
                       - Now you're just completely cornfused or pretending to be  MajorChode   Jul-26-09 02:22 PM   #89 
                          - To state this....  Spazito   Jul-26-09 02:28 PM   #92 
                             - You're trying to amalgamate two different areas of the report  MajorChode   Jul-26-09 02:42 PM   #95 
                                - Stating one's name does not meet the requirements as stipulated in  Spazito   Jul-26-09 02:56 PM   #99 
                                   - It's not MY assertion  MajorChode   Jul-26-09 03:29 PM   #108 
                                      - You are incorrect, I made no assertion, I provided the law as it exists...  Spazito   Jul-26-09 03:37 PM   #112 
        - This has nothing to do with your initial argument that the cop should have  cboy4   Jul-26-09 12:45 PM   #40 
           - The law is clear, Dr. Gates made a lawful request for identification...  Spazito   Jul-26-09 01:02 PM   #54 
              - Yea, your goalposts are in a new zip code in fact. That's how far you've  cboy4   Jul-26-09 01:12 PM   #62 
                 - The Mods did you SUCH a favour!  Karenina   Jul-26-09 01:33 PM   #67 
                 - I honestly don't understand your anger as it seems we agree with the salient point...  Spazito   Jul-26-09 01:34 PM   #68 
                    - And I believe you to be correct. That COMPLIANCE WITH THE LAW  Karenina   Jul-26-09 04:02 PM   #115 
                       - Thanks, Karenina, I appreciate your post....  Spazito   Jul-26-09 04:28 PM   #120 
  - I wonder if he'll ask Obama to step outside at the White House.  undeterred   Jul-26-09 12:53 PM   #48 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Jul-26-09 01:09 PM   #60 
  - Obama says he is an outstanding officer and invited him to the WH.  Fire_Medic_Dave   Jul-26-09 01:37 PM   #69 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Jul-26-09 03:26 PM   #106 
  - Obama is both a diplomat and politician.  Karenina   Jul-26-09 03:28 PM   #107 
  - ...  Wednesdays   Jul-26-09 01:48 PM   #75 
  - In the OP's defense, I don't believe this false legal argument has been  cboy4   Jul-26-09 03:30 PM   #109 
     - An argument you, in substance, agree with...  Spazito   Jul-26-09 03:50 PM   #114 
        - You're the only person I've ever heard advocate forcing the cops to  cboy4   Jul-26-09 04:07 PM   #116 
           - I advocated nothing, I posted the law as it exists...  Spazito   Jul-26-09 04:18 PM   #119 
  - Crowley violated Prof. Gates First Amendment rights  Gothmog   Jul-26-09 02:13 PM   #87 
  - Here is a good article from Slate on this issue  Gothmog   Jul-26-09 02:16 PM   #88 
  - Thanks, Gothmog, for this...  Spazito   Jul-26-09 02:33 PM   #93 
  - You may want to add this case to your your research.  merh   Jul-26-09 03:17 PM   #104 
  - Fortunately this is just a thread loaded with nutty information from a  cboy4   Jul-26-09 03:37 PM   #113 

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