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Reply #228: This discussion has taken place on DU. [View All]

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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Sun Jul-26-09 04:27 AM
Response to Reply #226
228. This discussion has taken place on DU.
Gates did cooperate, at first he hesitated, but then he gave the man his identification that proved he belonged at that address.

You want to discuss this from the LEO standards that cops I know would have applied?

Crowley was a Harvard University cop before he went to work for Cambridge PD. He knew the area and he knew that houses on Ware were Harvard houses. When dispatch sent him on that call he should have asked the dispatcher to call the Harvard PD and ask if that address was one of their houses and, if it was, who was the occupant. He should have told the dispatcher that if it was a HU house the dispatcher should have the HU cops meet him no the scene. He should have asked the dispatcher to get the name and a description of the lawful occupant so, when he arrived on scene he would better prepared. Let's say if he found out a white 50 year old white woman lived there, then the 2 black men on the porch were probably out of place.

When Gates gave Crowley his identification that proved he lived there, Crowley should have apologized for any inconvenience and then handed Gates one of his business cards with his name, badge number. On that card Gates should have written the incident number and then he should have explained to Gates that if he wants a copy of the report how and when he could obtain a copy.

Then Crowley should have left the scene. He should have sent the other cops on their way. He didn't need to call Harvard University cops at that time, the situation was under control. No crime had been committed.

As the man who trains LEO cadets on how to avoid racial profiling and how to deal with issues concerning same, he should have just continued to do his job and not escalate the situation by telling Gates, who was on the phone with the chief's office, "I gave you my name two times, if you want more information you can come out on the porch." There was no need for Gates to step out on the porch. The situation had been handled, the residency and identity established.

See, Gates has the right to be an ass in his own home. He has the constitutional right to be uncivil and rude and insulting to the police. Freedom of speech is guaranteed by the constitution and SCOTUS has said criticism of the police is not a crime. Houston v. Hill, 482 U.S. 451, 461-63, 107 S.Ct. 2502, 2509-10, 96 L.Ed.2d 398 (1987).

Although the preservation of liberty depends in part upon the maintenance of social order, the First Amendment requires that officers and municipalities respond with restraint in the face of verbal challenges to police action, since a certain amount of expressive disorder is inevitable in a society committed to individual freedom and must be protected if that freedom would survive. Pp. 471—472.


The Massachusetts Supreme Court has said:

Given that an inherent part of police work involves being in the presence of distraught individuals, and given that police officers are trained to maintain order, the Court concluded that police should be the least likely to be provoked.

Crowley wanted Gates on the porch so he could arrest him for disturbing the peace, the problem was, there were no "others" present that could have been provoked into some act of violence. Seven passers-by that looked in the direction of Gates does not constitute the public needed to form an element of the crime as charged. The Massachusetts Supreme Court has said that "the rationale behind criminalizing disorderly conduct rests on the belief that a disorderly person can provoke violence in others."

Commonwealth v. Mulvey
57 Mass. App. Ct. 579 (March 14, 2003)

Police presence in and of itself does not by itself turn an otherwise purely private outburst into disorderly conduct.

The defendant was charged with disorderly conduct for yelling and pacing on private property that was set back from the road in a secluded area. There was no one around at the time except police officers. While the statute requires that the disturbance be such that it had or was likely to have an impact upon people in an area accessible to the public, the presence of police officers alone will not suffice to prove the public element.

In reaching its decision, the Court noted that the rationale behind criminalizing disorderly conduct rests on the belief that a disorderly person can provoke violence in others.. Given that an inherent part of police work involves being in the presence of distraught individuals, and given that police officers are trained to maintain order, the Court concluded that police should be the least likely to be provoked. Therefore, police presence alone does not satisfy the public element.

http://www.mass.gov/?pageID=dmdaterminal&L=5&L0=Home&L1...


So yes, I've read the report and I believe Crowley was unprofessional and he not only failed to do his job properly, he failed to do what he trains others to do and that is diffuse a situation that involves the charge of racial profiling.

Citizen Gates was well within his rights to be uncivil in his home.

Officer Crowley had a higher duty to citizen Gates, his job was to "protect and serve" Gates and to maintain the peace. He failed and his failures resulted in the violation of Gates constitutional rights.

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  Generalized Police Bashing Needs to Stop MrBig  Jul-25-09 08:23 PM   #0 
   Fuck cops.  BlooInBloo   Jul-25-09 08:25 PM   #1 
   Yes, fuck'em  izquierdista   Jul-25-09 08:46 PM   #25 
   Sounds more than reasonable to me. n/t  Fire1   Jul-25-09 10:32 PM   #164 
   Like that "outstanding" racist officer that gets to visit the White House and have a beer with Obama  Fire_Medic_Dave   Jul-25-09 08:48 PM   #28 
   Apparently if you're a pig and you whine on national television you get to  Raineyb   Jul-25-09 09:23 PM   #102 
   There is this cute one that does traffic in the mornings  HughMoran   Jul-25-09 08:59 PM   #50 
   This.  liquid diamond   Jul-25-09 09:19 PM   #96 
   Except when you need one.  emilyg   Jul-25-09 09:43 PM   #120 
   Fish and bicycles?  GoneOffShore   Jul-25-09 09:56 PM   #134 
      That has not been my experience.  emilyg   Jul-26-09 12:08 AM   #189 
   Well, people-in-uniform ARE pretty damn hot, so yes. Fuck cops.  DRoseDARs   Jul-26-09 12:00 AM   #186 
   I notice that you didn't elaborate after that brilliant headline.  enzymatic   Jul-26-09 11:05 AM   #256 
   +1  Fire1   Jul-26-09 07:11 PM   #284 
   We have 1st Amendment rights on DU, in case you hadn't noticed in  kestrel91316   Jul-25-09 08:26 PM   #2 
   Right back at you  MrBig   Jul-25-09 08:35 PM   #11 
   oh bullshit  TorchTheWitch   Jul-25-09 08:54 PM   #37 
   agreed  bridgit   Jul-25-09 09:26 PM   #106 
   This is not bigotry.  mix   Jul-25-09 09:55 PM   #132 
      "generalized statements against..." is BY DEFINITION BIGOTRY  PurityOfEssence   Jul-25-09 10:24 PM   #155 
         Your use of bigotry is meant to inflame. And it is not accurate.  mix   Jul-25-09 10:30 PM   #161 
         It is within our rights, you are correct  MrBig   Jul-25-09 10:37 PM   #171 
         Someone elsewhere told you to look for the humanity  mix   Jul-25-09 10:40 PM   #173 
         You don't believe its the best course of action  Hutzpa   Jul-25-09 11:58 PM   #185 
            Making generalized statements  MrBig   Jul-26-09 01:40 AM   #204 
               Your argument makes sense  Hutzpa   Jul-26-09 02:14 PM   #277 
         But this is, by definition, BIGOTRY.  PurityOfEssence   Jul-26-09 01:06 AM   #194 
            (shrug) I hate rapists. I guess I'm a bigot. So be it.  BlooInBloo   Jul-26-09 01:26 AM   #201 
               Everyone I've ever met has some prejudices, no matter how mild  PurityOfEssence   Jul-26-09 05:52 AM   #232 
         Like hell. If that were true, we'd ALL be bigots.  Lyric   Jul-26-09 11:09 AM   #260 
   No we don't, there's plenty that censored on here  tammywammy   Jul-25-09 09:44 PM   #121 
   The irony is delicious: in one breath you managed to bleat about free speech  enzymatic   Jul-26-09 11:06 AM   #257 
   Generalized police worship needs to stop  tj2001   Jul-25-09 08:27 PM   #3 
   there are studies supporting this...  bliss_eternal   Jul-25-09 08:32 PM   #7 
   This is a logical post  MrBig   Jul-25-09 08:38 PM   #16 
      a few links...  bliss_eternal   Jul-25-09 09:10 PM   #75 
         Thanks!  MrBig   Jul-25-09 09:12 PM   #81 
            don't just thank me...  bliss_eternal   Jul-25-09 09:23 PM   #101 
               Point well taken  MrBig   Jul-25-09 09:55 PM   #131 
               perhaps "fuck cops"  bliss_eternal   Jul-25-09 10:04 PM   #144 
                  Maybe I expect more from people on this board?  MrBig   Jul-25-09 10:23 PM   #152 
                     Deleted message  Name removed   Jul-25-09 10:30 PM   #159 
                     what's not progressive...  bliss_eternal   Jul-25-09 10:30 PM   #160 
                        Questioning authority...  MrBig   Jul-25-09 10:32 PM   #165 
                           no one said that.  bliss_eternal   Jul-25-09 10:37 PM   #170 
                              Racial profiling IS a problem  MrBig   Jul-25-09 10:39 PM   #172 
                                 what generalized statements...?  bliss_eternal   Jul-25-09 10:49 PM   #175 
                                    There was one thread  MrBig   Jul-25-09 11:01 PM   #177 
                                       then why not address it in the specific thread....?  bliss_eternal   Jul-25-09 11:03 PM   #179 
                                          The thread was an example  MrBig   Jul-26-09 01:42 AM   #206 
               I respectfully disagree.  dddem   Jul-26-09 10:30 AM   #244 
                  you don't see the difference...  bliss_eternal   Jul-26-09 07:04 PM   #282 
   EXACTLY  MrBig   Jul-25-09 08:39 PM   #17 
   The problem is that the "good" cops ENABLE the assholes.  Odin2005   Jul-25-09 09:00 PM   #56 
      sometimes they are afraid....  bliss_eternal   Jul-25-09 09:16 PM   #91 
   Amen.  bobbolink   Jul-25-09 09:24 PM   #103 
   Cops are one of DU favorite groups to attack.  LostInAnomie   Jul-25-09 08:31 PM   #4 
   You haven't been following this discussion, have you?  EFerrari   Jul-25-09 08:36 PM   #15 
   It's the same conversation that always takes place when a cop makes the news.  LostInAnomie   Jul-25-09 08:45 PM   #22 
      Yes, you missed the part where we discussed the issues  EFerrari   Jul-25-09 09:12 PM   #79 
      LOL!  LostInAnomie   Jul-25-09 09:27 PM   #109 
         She's been here a year longer than you  me b zola   Jul-26-09 01:56 AM   #214 
            Might want to check your math again.  LostInAnomie   Jul-26-09 02:26 AM   #216 
               You're using some of that special math: "You're either with us or you're against us"  me b zola   Jul-26-09 02:51 AM   #222 
                  Wanting police to behave more respectively is one thing...  LostInAnomie   Jul-26-09 03:12 AM   #225 
                     You have a problem with what I said?  Raineyb   Jul-26-09 11:44 AM   #262 
      There is something different about this one.  merh   Jul-26-09 02:39 AM   #219 
         Good, someone with a law enforcement background.  LostInAnomie   Jul-26-09 03:36 AM   #226 
            This discussion has taken place on DU.  merh   Jul-26-09 04:27 AM   #228 
            Excellent post! It was, in fact, Sgt. Crowley who broke the law...  Spazito   Jul-26-09 11:00 AM   #254 
            Thank you for the information.  merh   Jul-26-09 11:08 AM   #259 
               It was another poster, Gothmog, who originally pointed this out in his OP..  Spazito   Jul-26-09 11:34 AM   #261 
                  Oh, believe me, I understand.  merh   Jul-26-09 12:09 PM   #264 
                     Yes, it has been fascinating to watch that when actual facts are..  Spazito   Jul-26-09 12:15 PM   #265 
                        I hope you included what SCOTUS and the Mass Courts have had to  merh   Jul-26-09 12:24 PM   #267 
                           I am already blowing the dust off it, rofl!  Spazito   Jul-26-09 12:28 PM   #268 
                              I'm still laughing at the first reply posted in your new thread.  merh   Jul-26-09 12:30 PM   #269 
                                 LOL, me too!  Spazito   Jul-26-09 12:38 PM   #271 
                                    Did you read Gates' attorney's initial statement?  merh   Jul-26-09 12:43 PM   #272 
                                       I keep asking myself, why did Sgt. Crowley deliberately ignore...  Spazito   Jul-26-09 01:39 PM   #275 
            I was hoping you'd post something like this for us civilians.  EFerrari   Jul-26-09 07:04 PM   #283 
               lol - you are too kind  merh   Jul-26-09 10:18 PM   #288 
            Your defense of the professionals that defend Gates makes little  merh   Jul-26-09 04:38 AM   #229 
               I can think of numerous reasons for the unions to back Crowley.  LostInAnomie   Jul-26-09 05:12 AM   #230 
                  You and I are commenting on the case without all the facts.  merh   Jul-26-09 09:54 AM   #242 
                     "I would guess the the President has been harassed by the police just because of his skin color..."  dysfunctional press   Jul-26-09 10:52 AM   #249 
   Cops defend their own, even when they're obviously in the wrong...  Mythsaje   Jul-25-09 08:53 PM   #35 
   police worship needs to stop  TexasObserver   Jul-25-09 08:31 PM   #5 
   I second that.  rollingrock   Jul-25-09 08:55 PM   #42 
   From WHERE are you  polmaven   Jul-25-09 09:12 PM   #80 
      The president has said Gates has accepted  rollingrock   Jul-25-09 09:18 PM   #93 
         Listen to what the president said, please...  polmaven   Jul-26-09 08:36 AM   #236 
   The use of the fallacy of the excluded middle needs to stop. (nt)  Posteritatis   Jul-25-09 09:39 PM   #119 
      Yeah, I remember when I read my first philosophy book, too!  TexasObserver   Jul-25-09 09:59 PM   #141 
         Then why'd you bring up police worship?  Posteritatis   Jul-25-09 10:10 PM   #147 
            DUH! Did you read the title of the thread?  TexasObserver   Jul-25-09 10:13 PM   #148 
               There is a difference  MrBig   Jul-25-09 10:25 PM   #156 
               Welcome to DU!  Robb   Jul-26-09 11:08 AM   #258 
   Yeah, OK  Sebastian Doyle   Jul-25-09 08:32 PM   #6 
   It's not about hate, it's about our survival as a democracy instead of a police state.  baldguy   Jul-25-09 08:32 PM   #8 
   GOP Worship needs to cease....We tried it under Bush/Cheney/Rummy  opihimoimoi   Jul-25-09 08:33 PM   # 
   Every cop I've run into has been a major dick.  sea four   Jul-25-09 08:33 PM   # 
   This is different  MrBig   Jul-25-09 08:42 PM   #20 
   HEY! You know what?  Th1onein   Jul-25-09 08:58 PM   # 
      Hahaha, wow  MrBig   Jul-25-09 09:06 PM   #69 
         I'm glad you like my assumptions.  Th1onein   Jul-25-09 09:20 PM   #97 
            Can you provide the evidence you claim exists???  MrBig   Jul-25-09 09:25 PM   #105 
               Hey, YOU are the one telling us what we "NEED" to do.  Th1onein   Jul-25-09 09:38 PM   #118 
                  No doubt your stories are true  MrBig   Jul-25-09 09:49 PM   #126 
                     I'm not the one splitting society apart, buddy.  Th1onein   Jul-25-09 09:58 PM   #138 
                        It's not about giving them a pass  MrBig   Jul-25-09 10:24 PM   #154 
                           Depends on whether you have a level playing field or not.  Th1onein   Jul-26-09 01:38 PM   #274 
   Change "dick" to "jerk" and you'll be fine.  TexasObserver   Jul-25-09 08:53 PM   #36 
   Well there's private dicks and public dicks.  omega minimo   Jul-26-09 01:23 AM   #199 
   I happen to have several friends  polmaven   Jul-25-09 09:19 PM   #95 
   DU Authoritarians untie!  EFerrari   Jul-25-09 08:33 PM   #9 
   We MUST, We must, We must increase our Bust!!!  omega minimo   Jul-25-09 08:47 PM   #26 
   Disagree or not...  proteus_lives   Jul-26-09 01:10 AM   #196 
   Untie what?  Fire_Medic_Dave   Jul-25-09 08:49 PM   #30 
   Your shoe? The knot looks a little loose...needs to be redone  MrBig   Jul-25-09 09:03 PM   #61 
      I use double knots they are fine.  Fire_Medic_Dave   Jul-25-09 09:09 PM   #73 
         New Studies show double knots not as reliable as once thought  MrBig   Jul-25-09 09:13 PM   #84 
            Mine have always held very well. I'll keep an eye on them though.  Fire_Medic_Dave   Jul-25-09 09:15 PM   # 
               bah hahaha. i loved this subthread in oh so serious. thanks guys. nt oh  seabeyond   Jul-25-09 09:45 PM   #122 
                  You are welcome. Silly to always be so serious.  Fire_Medic_Dave   Jul-25-09 09:54 PM   #129 
   lol. . .  annabanana   Jul-25-09 09:16 PM   #89 
   I would love to be able to not bash cops because there are many good ones  GoneOffShore   Jul-25-09 08:34 PM   #10 
   Nice try. Be aware that a lot of people who agree may not reply.  godai   Jul-25-09 08:35 PM   #12 
   LOL! You poor, poor things.  EFerrari   Jul-25-09 08:39 PM   #18 
   No Doubt  MrBig   Jul-25-09 08:45 PM   #21 
   I'll reply. I never  emilyg   Jul-25-09 09:46 PM   #125 
   If I'm treated well I respond well  sandnsea   Jul-25-09 08:35 PM   #13 
   Yup, the dreaded most  MrBig   Jul-25-09 08:47 PM   #27 
      Excuse me? Police Reports??  sandnsea   Jul-25-09 08:58 PM   #49 
         I take police reports very seriously  MrBig   Jul-25-09 09:15 PM   #86 
            Police Reports, 3 Cops statements,  sandnsea   Jul-25-09 09:51 PM   #128 
            I can draw conclusions  MrBig   Jul-25-09 09:56 PM   #133 
               In my humble opinion,  dddem   Jul-26-09 10:47 AM   #246 
            Pardon my interruption  Hutzpa   Jul-26-09 01:05 AM   #193 
               Very true n/t  MrBig   Jul-26-09 01:43 AM   #207 
   While there are plenty of good cops out there, there are also lots of bad ones too  47of74   Jul-25-09 08:36 PM   #14 
   I think that there are a lot of cops with poor social skills  undeterred   Jul-25-09 08:40 PM   #19 
   Again, there is a difference  MrBig   Jul-25-09 08:48 PM   #29 
   I agree with the points in your OP.  JohnnyLib2   Jul-25-09 08:46 PM   #23 
   If you're calling personal stories of racial profiling "cop bashing" you're way out of line  omega minimo   Jul-25-09 08:46 PM   #24 
   I'm not saying that  MrBig   Jul-25-09 08:52 PM   #34 
      Well some of those may be nimrods. Welcome to DU. Or it may be their experience.  omega minimo   Jul-25-09 08:59 PM   #53 
      That would be interesting  MrBig   Jul-25-09 09:16 PM   #90 
         and how it's affected police perception of police officers.  omega minimo   Jul-25-09 09:23 PM   #100 
      but in studying the culture...  bliss_eternal   Jul-25-09 09:35 PM   #117 
   There is a small but vocal group of cop haters here.  MrSlayer   Jul-25-09 08:50 PM   #31 
   I've not noticed it being a small group  TorchTheWitch   Jul-25-09 08:56 PM   #43 
   How about "Bad Cop Haters?"  Mythsaje   Jul-25-09 09:03 PM   #63 
   how about many of us not even hating cops. how about we see a huge problem getting bigger  seabeyond   Jul-25-09 09:09 PM   #74 
   Oh, I definitely don't hate all police...  Mythsaje   Jul-25-09 08:51 PM   #32 
   I agree  MrBig   Jul-25-09 08:55 PM   #41 
   No, not any worse either, but they don't have any right to  CakeGrrl   Jul-25-09 09:09 PM   #72 
   i blame the higher ups. i see the higher ups the ones responsible for the problem  seabeyond   Jul-25-09 09:13 PM   #82 
   I agree (n/t)  MrBig   Jul-25-09 09:17 PM   #92 
   "Cops aren't any worse than the rest of us. "  varelse   Jul-25-09 09:57 PM   #137 
   right on. peace brother. and THIS, is not cop bashing. this is saying where the issue is  seabeyond   Jul-25-09 08:56 PM   #44 
   I agree with your assessment  MrBig   Jul-25-09 09:19 PM   #94 
      we dont. we pretend it isnt there. and then to shut us up or not listen label "cop hater"  seabeyond   Jul-25-09 09:25 PM   #104 
         I don't say cop haters  MrBig   Jul-25-09 09:31 PM   #114 
            your right and as i typed that actually flashed thru brain, you didnt say it. but  seabeyond   Jul-25-09 09:33 PM   #116 
               You are correct  MrBig   Jul-25-09 09:57 PM   #135 
   That should be its own thread  sandnsea   Jul-25-09 09:00 PM   #55 
      It might be...  Mythsaje   Jul-25-09 09:02 PM   #60 
   seriously asking.... what does it mean, all the problems we are having with police and  seabeyond   Jul-25-09 08:52 PM   #33 
   The problems  MrBig   Jul-25-09 08:57 PM   #46 
      do you THINK all this is about crowley. do you THINK the animosity is just about this event.  seabeyond   Jul-25-09 09:03 PM   #62 
         I don't think this is about Crowley  MrBig   Jul-25-09 09:22 PM   #98 
            breath out... lol. cause no one will listen. labeled cop hater, or your post, just a few  seabeyond   Jul-25-09 09:27 PM   #107 
               It's this dialogue that I was looking for  MrBig   Jul-25-09 10:30 PM   #162 
                  the bottom line though, for me and for my boys, is i want to be able to support the police again  seabeyond   Jul-25-09 10:33 PM   #166 
                     No doubt  MrBig   Jul-25-09 10:43 PM   #174 
   Shit. Another forum hall monitor.  TahitiNut   Jul-25-09 08:54 PM   #38 
   Nope  MrBig   Jul-25-09 08:58 PM   #48 
   The authoritarian pig-lovers need to STFU!!!  Odin2005   Jul-25-09 08:54 PM   #39 
   Yup...  MrBig   Jul-25-09 08:59 PM   #52 
   Wow, stupid analogy.  Odin2005   Jul-25-09 09:05 PM   #66 
   How so???  MrBig   Jul-25-09 09:10 PM   #76 
      Policing is both a important civil necessity and a profession. Islam is a religion.  Odin2005   Jul-25-09 09:29 PM   #112 
         While your inherent power point is well taken  MrBig   Jul-25-09 10:01 PM   #142 
            They need to have the idea constantly reinforced that they serve us, not the other way around.  Odin2005   Jul-25-09 11:27 PM   #180 
               It's done more than you think  MrBig   Jul-26-09 01:45 AM   #208 
   Wow, great analogy. n/t  godai   Jul-25-09 09:13 PM   #83 
   If you believe that concentrated authority always corrupts a person  Telly Savalas   Jul-25-09 09:58 PM   #139 
   Is a good cop who covers for or tolerates a bad cop really a good cop?  TexasObserver   Jul-25-09 08:54 PM   #40 
   Of course not. That's why there are virtually no good cops.  BlooInBloo   Jul-25-09 08:57 PM   #45 
   Where's the proof?  MrBig   Jul-25-09 09:01 PM   #58 
      right here shuts the reasonable people down. the anger grows and fester. right here  seabeyond   Jul-25-09 09:04 PM   #65 
      I agree, the blue wall of silence works. As long as that's in place, they all get blamed....  BlooInBloo   Jul-25-09 09:05 PM   #67 
      Some are on the side of the public  MrBig   Jul-25-09 09:12 PM   #78 
         I agree that there are a lot more cops who passively allow other cops to commit crimes...  BlooInBloo   Jul-25-09 09:14 PM   #85 
         every police that read crowelys report knew he lead gates out of house to arrest him  seabeyond   Jul-25-09 09:16 PM   #88 
         Again, your comments are inaccurate.  TexasObserver   Jul-25-09 09:55 PM   #130 
            Partially correct  MrBig   Jul-25-09 10:03 PM   #143 
               You don't believe it because you cannot admit that your opinion is just that.  TexasObserver   Jul-25-09 10:10 PM   #146 
                  Where have I refused to accept that???  MrBig   Jul-25-09 10:28 PM   #157 
      Joseph Wambaugh, former policeman/author: "All cops lie to make cases."  TexasObserver   Jul-25-09 09:10 PM   #77 
         It is absolutely true.  DefenseLawyer   Jul-25-09 09:32 PM   #115 
            Yes, it is. As you say, only video can prove they lied.  TexasObserver   Jul-25-09 09:46 PM   #123 
   this is what i ask too.... n/t  seabeyond   Jul-25-09 08:57 PM   #47 
   No.  Odin2005   Jul-25-09 08:59 PM   #51 
   Not at all  MrBig   Jul-25-09 09:00 PM   #54 
      Then show us the cops who are blowing the whistle on the bad ones..  Fumesucker   Jul-25-09 09:15 PM   #87 
      Yes, there is proof. The JURY in this matter is the public.  TexasObserver   Jul-25-09 09:27 PM   #108 
         You are correct - that is proof  MrBig   Jul-25-09 09:59 PM   #140 
            A bad cop can commit a good deed. That doesn't erase the bad conduct.  TexasObserver   Jul-25-09 10:18 PM   #150 
               I would disagree  MrBig   Jul-25-09 10:36 PM   #167 
   When cops stop terrorizing people, and covering for cops who terrorize - then I'll stop bashing them  BlooInBloo   Jul-25-09 09:01 PM   #57 
   Oh thanks  DefenseLawyer   Jul-25-09 09:01 PM   #59 
   You seem to assume  MrBig   Jul-25-09 09:09 PM   #71 
   Cops are great guys.  asdjrocky   Jul-25-09 09:04 PM   #64 
   You'll see some of the same sort of things about military, and then  Obamanaut   Jul-25-09 09:05 PM   #68 
   It seems bashing police is a DU value that I hope doesn't represent most progressives  stray cat   Jul-25-09 09:06 PM   #70 
   Constant excuse making for police needs to stop!  Raineyb   Jul-25-09 09:22 PM   #99 
   You're fighting a losing battle.  ProudToBeBlueInRhody   Jul-25-09 09:28 PM   #110 
   I've learned people whose lips are glued to cops' asses tighter than a drum  cboy4   Jul-25-09 09:28 PM   #111 
   Admins had a good idea when they first showed the total unrec count.  lpbk2713   Jul-25-09 09:30 PM   #113 
   I agree (n/t)  MrBig   Jul-25-09 09:46 PM   #124 
   It can represent a disinclination toward civil mediation and the RW machine has already...  bridgit   Jul-25-09 09:50 PM   #127 
   Good cops cover for bad cops...  Iggo   Jul-25-09 09:57 PM   #136 
   You hit the nail on the head!!!  goddess40   Jul-25-09 10:20 PM   #151 
   I won't even bother to read the responses. The -Recs pretty much reflects the DU attitude  elocs   Jul-25-09 10:07 PM   #145 
   I expected as much  MrBig   Jul-25-09 10:29 PM   #158 
   cops can be terrifing bullies, but we must not forget who they work for  G_j   Jul-25-09 10:16 PM   #149 
   When I see OTHER law enforcement members condemming  ThoughtCriminal   Jul-25-09 10:24 PM   #153 
   Their unions seem to be run by bullies and thugs  tj2001   Jul-25-09 10:31 PM   #163 
   cool. we are recognizing a problem. so better to say a truth than pretend there isnt a problem  seabeyond   Jul-25-09 10:36 PM   #168 
      And what makes it worse  MrBig   Jul-25-09 11:03 PM   #178 
   Precisely.  merh   Jul-26-09 02:41 AM   #220 
   I have no real respect for any cop.  WeDidIt   Jul-25-09 10:37 PM   #169 
   You seem pretty reasonable. Maybe this isn't the right place for you. nt  Tim01   Jul-25-09 10:53 PM   #176 
   Thank you. I had my own experience with "profiling" about 10 years ago.  DRoseDARs   Jul-25-09 11:50 PM   #181 
   That was good, up to the point where you started whining about reverse racism.  BlooInBloo   Jul-25-09 11:52 PM   #182 
      Deleted message  Name removed   Jul-25-09 11:57 PM   #184 
      That was good, I defend myself against your ridiculous charge and a mod deletes it without cause.  DRoseDARs   Jul-26-09 09:48 AM   #240 
   I know two decent cops  proud2BlibKansan   Jul-25-09 11:53 PM   #183 
   it really isn't very progressive to generalize all cop haters/bashers...  dysfunctional press   Jul-26-09 12:00 AM   #187 
   Show me where I did  MrBig   Jul-26-09 01:47 AM   #209 
      look for yourself...  dysfunctional press   Jul-26-09 02:20 AM   #215 
   Why? Does it infringe on their rights in some manner?  Starry Messenger   Jul-26-09 12:04 AM   #188 
   People badmouth teachers?  Tim01   Jul-26-09 12:31 AM   #191 
   future prisoners?  lexanman   Jul-26-09 05:22 AM   #231 
   No, that's how I view the students who will end up in prison.  Tim01   Jul-26-09 09:06 AM   #238 
      who said they would be lawyers or doctors?  lexanman   Jul-26-09 09:23 AM   #239 
         I followed up on one of the students.  Tim01   Jul-26-09 12:32 PM   #270 
   Future prisoners?  Raineyb   Jul-26-09 08:37 AM   #237 
   No rights infringed...  MrBig   Jul-26-09 01:55 AM   #211 
      law enforcement has excellent PR.  Starry Messenger   Jul-26-09 02:30 AM   #217 
   Watch this short video: typical police mentality.  Xicano   Jul-26-09 12:13 AM   #190 
   One should never yell theater in a crowded fire!  obliviously   Jul-26-09 12:37 AM   #192 
   I have had good and bad experiences with cops  Jennicut   Jul-26-09 01:09 AM   #195 
   Why not you generalize Felons  Wolf-Were   Jul-26-09 01:13 AM   #197 
   Where have I generalized felons?  MrBig   Jul-26-09 01:55 AM   #212 
      All police generalize felons.  Wolf-Were   Jul-26-09 03:11 PM   #280 
   Anyone who judges an entire group is a hypocrite and not a liberal.  proteus_lives   Jul-26-09 01:18 AM   #198 
   Yup. People who generalize by hating nazis, hating rapists, etc. They're all just like freepers.  BlooInBloo   Jul-26-09 01:25 AM   #200 
      As usual, you fail.  proteus_lives   Jul-26-09 01:33 AM   #202 
         hahahah!  BlooInBloo   Jul-26-09 01:34 AM   #203 
            business as usual with you  proteus_lives   Jul-26-09 01:41 AM   #205 
               I think the saying goes  Dreamer Tatum   Jul-26-09 01:53 AM   #210 
                  You're right.  proteus_lives   Jul-26-09 02:43 AM   #221 
   Yes, use the law and the Constitution to prove who is right.  Life Long Dem   Jul-26-09 01:56 AM   #213 
   Thank you for a sensible, reasonable post, and welcome to DU.  Quantess   Jul-26-09 02:32 AM   #218 
   I will add this  lexanman   Jul-26-09 02:54 AM   #223 
   No, it needs to increase and spread to the point that the status quo can no longer stand.  Greyhound   Jul-26-09 02:54 AM   #224 
   I always try to show respect to the police - but I don't trust them  aint_no_life_nowhere   Jul-26-09 03:58 AM   #227 
   police abuse of authority is systemic, not an aberration. as are the attempts to cover up  KG   Jul-26-09 06:26 AM   #233 
   My apologies to the 40% of cops that don't deserve to be bashed.  Vidar   Jul-26-09 08:09 AM   #234 
   I agree mate  erasmia   Jul-26-09 08:20 AM   #235 
   This is a matter of public preception.  rucky   Jul-26-09 09:50 AM   #241 
   I think that you are generalizing  merh   Jul-26-09 10:20 AM   #243 
   I can not even imagine a cop being a Dem and much less a progressive.  L0oniX   Jul-26-09 10:38 AM   #245 
   I know several of them.  bigwillq   Jul-26-09 10:51 AM   #247 
   I think you are making a broad judgement about my broad judgement.  L0oniX   Jul-26-09 10:55 AM   #250 
      That's what I got out of your post.  bigwillq   Jul-26-09 10:56 AM   #252 
   "Democrats = the party of the ACLU; Republicans = the party of cops"  tj2001   Jul-26-09 10:57 AM   #253 
   "Hopefully we can have better discourse on the subject than has been seen recently."  Curtland1015   Jul-26-09 10:51 AM   #248 
   yes, i did see all posters defending cop with this attitude, no talking just rolling eyes, BUT  seabeyond   Jul-26-09 10:55 AM   #251 
   K&R. For what it's worth.  Robb   Jul-26-09 11:04 AM   #255 
   I have a simple practice when I read a  whistler162   Jul-26-09 11:52 AM   #263 
   So sadly true.  JohnnyLib2   Jul-26-09 12:52 PM   #273 
   There are some great cops! But we live in a police state - that aint no good for either party.  grahamhgreen   Jul-26-09 12:16 PM   #266 
   Generalized police bashing of citizens' heads needs to stop.  Flaneur   Jul-26-09 01:50 PM   #276 
   In my dealings with police,  PatSeg   Jul-26-09 02:35 PM   #278 
   Well, the *over-generalized* cop bashing, certainly.  Orsino   Jul-26-09 02:50 PM   #279 
   Why? The cops always see non cops as the enemy  Taverner   Jul-26-09 03:14 PM   #281 
   Belated Welcome to DU!  Strong Atheist   Jul-26-09 07:20 PM   #285 
   Agreed. Cops are PEOPLE. This is *almost* as bad as racism.  johnaries   Jul-26-09 08:15 PM   #286 
   Well...  beevul   Jul-26-09 08:42 PM   #287 
   You're demanding that free speech re police enforcement be curtailed?????  defendandprotect   Jul-26-09 10:30 PM   #289 
 

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