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Reply #11: You're welcome, glitch. The Nuevo Reich wants to bury the lessons of the past... [View All]

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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. You're welcome, glitch. The Nuevo Reich wants to bury the lessons of the past... they own the media, the universities...the banks.

Robert McNamara and Smedley Butler

by Tom Gallagher
Published on Monday, July 13, 2009 by

Theres been a lot of ink spilled in the past week over how we ought to think about the late Robert McNamara. (And yes, real ink, not just virtual even the remaining real newspapers were in on it.) Does the fact that he came to realize that the Vietnam War (McNamaras War to some) was wrong even as he continued to pursue it as Lyndon Johnsons Defense Secretary make him a better or a worse person? And what of his willingness to say it publicly but only three decades later? There may be a more useful way to think about him, however. And it involves considering him not in conjunction with, say, Henry Kissinger, who followed a course similar to his but apparently without hesitation, but more in terms of General Smedley Butler, someone who did learn from his experience.

Butler, of course, achieved far greater clarity than the ever-hedging McNamara did. Butlers story is fairly well known: four years after a military career that included service in Cuba, China, Honduras, Nicaragua, Panama, Mexico, Haiti, and France, he wrote a book called War is a Racket. He gave speeches in which he would say things like, during that period, I spent most of my time being a high class muscle- man for Big Business, for Wall Street and for the Bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism.

Whether any of this later-in-life understanding made Butler a better or worse person I do not know. What I do know, though, is that what Butler was willing to say and write was extremely helpful to more than one generation of antiwar activists: Hey, you dont have to take my word for it. Listen to this guy, he should know.

Likewise, I suggest to no one that they should get over their antipathy to Robert McNamara if that is what they feel the evil that he and Kissinger and the rest did will long outlive them. And anyone who no longer hates the criminals should certainly remain outraged at their crimes. But let us take something of value out of McNamaras life.

When we encounter potential military recruits looking to serve in one of the nations seemingly always available wars but not looking too closely at exactly what it is were fighting for because they assume our leaders wouldnt lead them astray on matters of life and death, lets tell them about Robert McNamara. If the man in charge of one of our wars could later write that what the US did at the time was wrong, terribly wrong, dont we all owe it to ourselves to take a closer look at where those in power are leading us today?


Thank you, glitch. You've been more than shouldering your share of making the happy happy. Your friendship means the Multiverse.
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  -Smedley Butler Stopped American Fascist Conspiracy to Overthrow FDR Octafish  Jul-25-09 05:37 PM   #0 
  - Smedley Butler was one of America's greatest patriots  MrScorpio   Jul-25-09 05:39 PM   #1 
  - That's why the Wall Street fascists chose him.  Octafish   Jul-25-09 05:58 PM   #6 
     - Wow, why am I not surprised that Al Smith and John Raskob were involved?  Odin2005   Jul-25-09 08:13 PM   #24 
     - Wasn't Prescott Bush also among them?  bobbolink   Jul-25-09 08:51 PM   #31 
     - Prescott Bush, Goodyear Tire, Heinz, DuPont, Birds' Eye, Maxwell House...  troubledamerican   Jul-25-09 09:00 PM   #34 
     - Prescott was central to the plot - he was chosen to be the chief liaison with Hitler's Germany  leveymg   Jul-26-09 07:29 AM   #53 
        - There's another side to this story - how Allen Dulles and friends moved Nazi gold out of Europe  leveymg   Jul-26-09 07:50 AM   #55 
        - Dr. Mengele financed operations with illegal drugs from his South American redoubt  Octafish   Jul-26-09 10:12 AM   #63 
           - I think you and Leveymg should collaborate on a book  bear425   Jul-26-09 11:45 AM   #70 
           - And an honor and pleasure  leveymg   Jul-26-09 12:34 PM   #77 
        - Had dinner last year w Edwin Black, author of "IBM and the Holocaust"  mod mom   Jul-26-09 10:07 AM   #61 
           - They've been trying ever since to control America's economy through deregulation of their activities  bjobotts   Jul-26-09 02:08 PM   #84 
           - Using an army of lobbyists rather than marines and dollars rather than guns to make a fascist corpo  bjobotts   Jul-26-09 02:09 PM   #85 
           - Wow! What was Mr. Black like?  Octafish   Jul-27-09 07:02 PM   #103 
     - Yep. nt  anonymous171   Jul-26-09 01:44 AM   #46 
  - K&R (note: Seize not Sieze) nt  valerief   Jul-25-09 05:41 PM   #2 
  - My bad! LOL! It's from the original source...  Octafish   Jul-25-09 06:01 PM   #7 
  - Not much of a warrior, tho.....  Bigmack   Jul-25-09 05:43 PM   #3 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Jul-25-09 06:08 PM   #8 
  - most of those awards were for killing brown folks  Thothmes   Jul-25-09 06:24 PM   #12 
  - That why he wrote... War is a Racket....  Bigmack   Jul-25-09 08:25 PM   #26 
  - He was actually nominated for the medal of honor three times!  cascadiance   Jul-26-09 02:04 AM   #49 
  - K&R  redqueen   Jul-25-09 05:52 PM   #4 
  - Gen. Butler was a real maverick.  Octafish   Jul-25-09 06:14 PM   #9 
     - A true Hero, indeed.  redqueen   Jul-25-09 06:37 PM   #13 
     - Wait, they fired him because he insulted Benito fucking Mussolini?  anonymous171   Jul-26-09 01:46 AM   #47 
  - The real heroes rarely make it into the history books. Thank you for your service Octafish  glitch   Jul-25-09 05:57 PM   #5 
  - You're welcome, glitch. The Nuevo Reich wants to bury the lessons of the past...  Octafish   Jul-25-09 06:20 PM   #11 
  - I am reminded of a quote:  Odin2005   Jul-25-09 08:19 PM   #25 
  - A man who is entirely, unforgivably too obscure  Posteritatis   Jul-25-09 06:18 PM   #10 
  - What would the students say when they learned about Butler?  Octafish   Jul-25-09 07:32 PM   #18 
  - Well, they were freshman classes, so the bar was set with a shovel  Posteritatis   Jul-25-09 08:26 PM   #27 
  - I have political science professors who have not heard of Smedley Butler.  OnyxCollie   Jul-25-09 11:29 PM   #40 
  - college history and Butler  blackbird13   Jul-27-09 08:49 AM   #96 
  - K&R....and don't forget the involvement of George W Bush's grandfather...  AntiFascist   Jul-25-09 07:12 PM   #14 
  - Watch this BBC documentary on Prescott Bush's involvement in this...  cascadiance   Jul-25-09 07:22 PM   #16 
  - Prescott Bush also helped bring Nixon into power...  AntiFascist   Jul-25-09 07:36 PM   #20 
  - J Edgar Hoover ''watched'' over Butler.  Octafish   Jul-25-09 07:55 PM   #22 
  - This explains much about the earliest connections between...  AntiFascist   Jul-25-09 08:31 PM   #28 
  - Thanks! I knew Prescott Bush was in there somewhere.....  bobbolink   Jul-25-09 08:55 PM   #32 
  - K&R  Uzybone   Jul-25-09 07:14 PM   #15 
  - As Thom Hartmann would note this is a symptom of our textbooks being censored by Texas school system  cascadiance   Jul-25-09 07:36 PM   #19 
  - some of my older family would note that Texas Republicans  Bluenorthwest   Jul-26-09 07:41 AM   #54 
  - Reminds me of when Republicans complain about "rewriting history."  Beartracks   Jul-26-09 12:58 AM   #44 
  - K&R  conscious evolution   Jul-25-09 07:28 PM   #17 
  - "War is a Racket" is required reading.  Naturyl   Jul-25-09 07:40 PM   #21 
  - That's something they will never teach you in history class  Odin2005   Jul-25-09 08:10 PM   #23 
  - Thank you for all you do to shine a light on scrubbed history.  bleever   Jul-25-09 08:45 PM   #29 
  - The Plot To Overthrow FDR -- dvd  bobbolink   Jul-25-09 08:49 PM   #30 
  - Butler rocks  ellie   Jul-25-09 08:57 PM   #33 
  - K&R. JFK could have done with a few Butlers on his Secrete Service detail! n/t  ControlledDemolition   Jul-25-09 09:17 PM   #35 
  - Oh yeah.  Octafish   Jul-27-09 07:08 PM   #104 
  - K&R. nt  OnyxCollie   Jul-25-09 09:17 PM   #36 
  - I wonder who our next Smedley Butler is going to be?  santamargarita   Jul-25-09 09:32 PM   #37 
  - Perhaps they were afraid Pat Tillman would have been one...  cascadiance   Jul-25-09 09:45 PM   #39 
  - He or she knows they are being watched.  Octafish   Jul-26-09 09:55 AM   #60 
  - If they'd succeeded, I wonder who's side we would've been on in WW2?  Marr   Jul-25-09 09:36 PM   #38 
  - And what if Al Smith had become president instead of FDR?  Jim Sagle   Jul-26-09 03:11 PM   #86 
  - My grandparents knew Smedley Butler.  begin_within   Jul-25-09 11:36 PM   #41 
  - Don't ever throw out the letters whether or not there are any between your parents and Butler.  peacetalksforall   Jul-26-09 09:48 AM   #57 
     - You're so right. My stepmother threw out a lot of my stuff,  begin_within   Jul-26-09 11:16 AM   #69 
  - Rest in peace wherever you are Smedley Butler  sasquatch   Jul-26-09 12:19 AM   #42 
  - Great report Octafish  MagickMuffin   Jul-26-09 12:27 AM   #43 
  - Smedley Butler, Meet John Perkins  Octafish   Jul-27-09 07:24 PM   #106 
  - K&R nt  Mithreal   Jul-26-09 01:38 AM   #45 
  - Fucking republicans are preaching the same exact socialism bullshit about Public Option health care.  LaPera   Jul-26-09 01:55 AM   #48 
  - I'm glad you pointed this out,  Greyhound   Jul-26-09 02:31 AM   #50 
  - Thanks for reminding me, Greyhound...  Octafish   Jul-26-09 09:50 AM   #59 
  - To answer your question, NO.  bobbolink   Jul-26-09 06:17 PM   #91 
  - Perfect n/t k*r  autorank   Jul-26-09 03:37 AM   #51 
  - I always amazes me that people think the US treats it soldiers and vetrans well.  geckosfeet   Jul-26-09 07:28 AM   #52 
  - Interesting aside, there. (nt)  redqueen   Jul-26-09 09:39 AM   #56 
  - I'm curious. How has the History Chanel covered Butler. Honestly, sufficiently, barely?  peacetalksforall   Jul-26-09 09:49 AM   #58 
  - Barely, AFAIK.  onager   Jul-26-09 10:51 AM   #65 
  - Thanks for the background, the lead to the miniseries, and the autobio.  peacetalksforall   Jul-26-09 11:45 AM   #71 
  - Side proposal or request. Since you have taught and since you have been in Egypt  peacetalksforall   Jul-26-09 01:00 PM   #79 
     - I don't really know much about the education nowadays.  onager   Jul-26-09 01:25 PM   #80 
  - I would say barely at best  Libertas1776   Jul-26-09 05:34 PM   #89 
  - Please watch THE PLOT TO OVERTHROW FDR  bobbolink   Jul-26-09 06:21 PM   #94 
  - As I wrote upthread.... DVD--THE PLOT TO OVERTHROW FDR  bobbolink   Jul-26-09 06:20 PM   #93 
  - This would make a great movie!  rucky   Jul-26-09 10:09 AM   #62 
  - It has been made into a (TV) movie.  onager   Jul-26-09 10:52 AM   #66 
  - Butler a credit. North a disgrace to the marines. Which one got famous?  RedCloud   Jul-26-09 10:14 AM   #64 
  - The conspirators, INCLUDING PRESCOTT BUSH, should have been executed.  kestrel91316   Jul-26-09 10:55 AM   #67 
  - And perhaps by doing so spared us of the mess we had for the last 8 years to boot!  cascadiance   Jul-26-09 06:13 PM   #90 
  - Congress buried the whole thing, nobody was even prosecuted.  Greyhound   Jul-27-09 12:48 PM   #100 
  - Hello, Octafish!  XanaDUer   Jul-26-09 11:12 AM   #68 
  - Good story, good message  govegan   Jul-26-09 12:04 PM   #72 
  - not so unusual, FDR himself considered a dictatorship  Hamlette   Jul-26-09 12:12 PM   #73 
  - Dr. my eyes  HiyaEmerald Eyes   Jul-26-09 12:15 PM   #74 
  - Many thanks, Octafish, for posting this. We can get the word out even if the textbooks  bertman   Jul-26-09 12:17 PM   #75 
  - You're welcome, bertman. Credit goes to DU and all good DUers who give a damn about Democracy.  Octafish   Jul-27-09 07:17 PM   #105 
  - Thanks for keeping this story alive. The BBC program is a must see for all DU'ers.  David Zephyr   Jul-26-09 12:33 PM   #76 
  - We should lobby Free Speech TV or Link TV to carry it...  cascadiance   Jul-26-09 06:19 PM   #92 
  - ...temporarily. nt  tomp   Jul-26-09 12:38 PM   #78 
  - K & R  swilton   Jul-26-09 01:31 PM   #81 
  - This has got to be worth bookmarking....  lyonn   Jul-26-09 01:49 PM   #82 
  - I learned about it in a goddamned *game* book.  Orsino   Jul-26-09 01:56 PM   #83 
  - K&R good one...exposes/reminds us of Mil indust complex  opihimoimoi   Jul-26-09 03:18 PM   #87 
  - the greatest heroes of American (and probably everybody else's) history are ignored or erased by  yurbud   Jul-26-09 05:30 PM   #88 
  - Here is the 43-minute video!  bobbolink   Jul-26-09 06:31 PM   #95 
  - It's amazing how so many today mock the notion of such elements diligently at work behind the scenes  Echo In Light   Jul-27-09 08:53 AM   #97 
  - General Smedley Butler would have made a great DU member  formercia   Jul-27-09 09:00 AM   #98 
  - bttt!  Karenina   Jul-27-09 12:03 PM   #99 
  - so, they make this academy award movie about Patton  newspeak   Jul-27-09 02:07 PM   #101 
     - A crying shame, it is. (nt)  redqueen   Jul-27-09 05:48 PM   #102 

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