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Reply #12: no more than cop unions advocate for crime victims [View All]

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paulsby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 02:45 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. no more than cop unions advocate for crime victims
generally speaking, the job of the union is advocacy. sometimes advocacy for the members AND the people served intersect. i already conceded that. some of the stuff my union advocates for benefits crime victims, iow the people we serve. but that is not what unions DO. their design and mandate is to advocate for their members. my union advocates for all kinds of stuff that benefits US, while hurting the people we serve. that's sad but true. the same can be said for teacher;'s unions. teachers pay dues to their unions. the job of the union is to represent those due payers, NOT the kids. that the causes may intersect doesn't change the point. be honest about unions. they are a wonderful force for labor rights, but they necessarily advocate for their members. sometimes the good of the members is contrary to the good of others. that's the way it works in an adversarial system.
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  -Obama-Ed: More $ to privatization, merit pay, longer school year. Hannah Bell  Jul-25-09 01:46 AM   #0 
  - Arne Duncan is probably Obama's worst choice after his economic team, all of whom belong in prison  yurbud   Jul-25-09 01:50 AM   #1 
  - Arne Duncan never received his "Type 75" administrative certification in Illinois!  DailyGrind51   Jul-25-09 08:11 AM   #27 
     - He's a suit, & that's why he was selected, to do PRECISELY what he's doing.  Hannah Bell   Jul-25-09 02:46 PM   #48 
     - Obama is different--just not enough  yurbud   Jul-25-09 03:51 PM   #55 
     - Duncan was like every other member of the Daley administration,  DailyGrind51   Jul-26-09 10:57 AM   #81 
     - That's the latest trend  proud2BlibKansan   Jul-26-09 12:34 AM   #75 
  - Assault on public education  Hannah Bell   Jul-25-09 01:50 AM   #2 
  - Detroit schools “financial czar” orders teachers to reapply for their jobs  Hannah Bell   Jul-25-09 02:05 AM   #4 
     - So there are a bunch of teachers waiting in the wings who want these jobs?  proud2BlibKansan   Jul-25-09 08:00 AM   #25 
     - That's funny...  YvonneCa   Jul-25-09 11:54 PM   #67 
     - that makes sense--we are having trouble recruiting and retaining teachers, so kick them in the nuts  yurbud   Jul-25-09 03:52 PM   #56 
  - Turn that frown upside down, Hannah.  Amos Moses   Jul-25-09 02:04 AM   #3 
  - Olaf (upon what were once knees)  Hannah Bell   Jul-25-09 02:08 AM   #5 
     - Well.... that's what I call stinkin' thinkin'!  Amos Moses   Jul-25-09 02:26 AM   #8 
  - The schools have already been overpoliticized.  AdHocSolver   Jul-25-09 02:16 AM   #6 
  - Agreed. Read some of the posts at Duncan's...  YvonneCa   Jul-25-09 11:58 PM   #68 
  - teachers unions  paulsby   Jul-25-09 02:25 AM   #7 
  - yes, i'm seriously suggesting that. furthermore, i have the studies to back it up.  Hannah Bell   Jul-25-09 02:30 AM   #9 
  - dupe  Hannah Bell   Jul-25-09 02:30 AM   #10 
  - Teachers unions do indeed advocate for kids  proud2BlibKansan   Jul-25-09 02:40 AM   #11 
  - no more than cop unions advocate for crime victims  paulsby   Jul-25-09 02:45 AM   #12 
     - That is not a good analogy at all  proud2BlibKansan   Jul-25-09 02:58 AM   #13 
     - you misunderstand the meaning of "adversarial"  paulsby   Jul-25-09 03:06 AM   #15 
        - Teachers unions advocate for their leaders  GoesTo11   Jul-25-09 08:49 AM   #33 
           - Some liberals repeat RW stereotypes as well  Kid Dynamite   Jul-25-09 12:46 PM   #39 
              - Name calling, but you don't know what you're talking about  GoesTo11   Jul-25-09 02:11 PM   #43 
                 - Its not what I'm talking about but who I'm talking to  Kid Dynamite   Jul-25-09 02:37 PM   #45 
                    - fwiw, i LOVE unions  paulsby   Jul-26-09 01:40 AM   #78 
                       - Part of unionism is being in solidarity with your fellow workers  Kid Dynamite   Jul-26-09 11:58 AM   #82 
                          - utter rubbish and typical of somebody with no argument - resort to ad hominems  paulsby   Jul-26-09 03:06 PM   #83 
                             - By definition you cannot be "pro-labor"  Kid Dynamite   Jul-26-09 03:22 PM   #84 
                                - rubbish  paulsby   Jul-26-09 03:32 PM   #85 
                                   - You're no working class hero  Kid Dynamite   Jul-26-09 03:40 PM   #86 
                                      - again with the ad hominems  paulsby   Jul-26-09 03:44 PM   #87 
     - Is your pay based on the performance of the people you serve?  Amos Moses   Jul-25-09 03:00 AM   #14 
        - i;m not advocating for merit pay  paulsby   Jul-25-09 03:10 AM   #16 
        - Maybe I read your post wrong or I have you confused with  Amos Moses   Jul-25-09 03:18 AM   #17 
        - The unions job is to protect the working conditions of the teachers...  maryf   Jul-27-09 09:50 PM   #90 
        - yes, a merit system! let's have police depts across the country compete for funding on the basis of  Hannah Bell   Jul-25-09 04:08 AM   #21 
        - Or let's punish dentists when their patients...  YvonneCa   Jul-26-09 12:01 AM   #69 
        - It would be more pay that cops would get in high crime areas....  FrenchieCat   Jul-25-09 04:09 AM   #22 
           - you didn't read the rest. the administration says pay *will* be tied to student scores.  Hannah Bell   Jul-25-09 04:21 AM   #24 
              - I am not a pessimistic skeptic ready to cash my chips in.....so I don't  FrenchieCat   Jul-25-09 01:42 PM   #40 
                 - The source is Obama's Education czar, & is ID'd in the sentence following the one you quoted:  Hannah Bell   Jul-25-09 02:02 PM   #42 
                 - I'm reading other sources,  FrenchieCat   Jul-25-09 02:25 PM   #44 
                    - Fact: student test results will be one of the metrics for determination of teacher merit.  Hannah Bell   Jul-25-09 02:40 PM   #46 
                    - Fact: July 20th marked the 6th month of this "change" presidency, not 8 months....  FrenchieCat   Jul-25-09 03:04 PM   #50 
                       - Fact: Obama ed budget for 2010: 46.7 billion. Bush ed budget 2008: 58 billion.  Hannah Bell   Jul-25-09 03:38 PM   #53 
                          - Facts: All budgets aren't equal.....  FrenchieCat   Jul-25-09 04:20 PM   #59 
                             - Wait, what? When did critical thinking become acceptable on this thread?  anigbrowl   Jul-25-09 04:48 PM   #62 
                                - I don't like the picture I am starting to see here in some of these posts.....  FrenchieCat   Jul-25-09 05:06 PM   #64 
                                   - In times of political stress, I often find this a comforting reminder of how things work  anigbrowl   Jul-25-09 05:11 PM   #65 
                                   - got more straw?  Hannah Bell   Jul-27-09 02:45 PM   #88 
                    - Here's the context: Obama chose arne duncan as his education czar.  Hannah Bell   Jul-26-09 06:20 AM   #79 
                 - Do you realize that 2 states have laws PREVENTING...  YvonneCa   Jul-26-09 12:06 AM   #70 
  - Paulsby you cannot damn Unions with faint praise  Kid Dynamite   Jul-25-09 12:43 PM   #38 
  - I have to disagree about merit pay based on children's performance.  Selatius   Jul-25-09 03:24 AM   #18 
  - another thing  Amos Moses   Jul-25-09 03:56 AM   #19 
  - I support merit pay and longer school years.  aikoaiko   Jul-25-09 10:54 AM   #36 
  - Totally disagree  anigbrowl   Jul-25-09 04:53 PM   #63 
  - Screw the Kids  Truth Talks   Jul-25-09 04:03 AM   #20 
  - someone who gets it, including the anti-democratic & pernicious influence of Gates, Inc.  Hannah Bell   Jul-25-09 04:12 AM   #23 
  - sad nt  G_j   Jul-25-09 08:16 AM   #30 
  - Nice job repeating RW stereotypes  GoesTo11   Jul-25-09 03:30 PM   #52 
     - No kidding.  Truth Talks   Jul-25-09 04:10 PM   #58 
  - Well  Orwellian_Ghost   Jul-25-09 08:03 AM   #26 
  - "Change" you can MAKE BELIEVE IN!  SammyWinstonJack   Jul-25-09 08:15 AM   #29 
  - Rec. Another disappointing decision to continue privatization of the public commons.  nightrain   Jul-25-09 08:13 AM   #28 
  - This was totally foresable, and I blame in large measure the NEA for this  ProgressiveProfessor   Jul-25-09 08:29 AM   #31 
  - There already has been a lot of real...  YvonneCa   Jul-26-09 12:09 AM   #71 
  - This is a huge disappointment.  Doremus   Jul-25-09 08:42 AM   #32 
  - I think he believes the crap. :( nt  glitch   Jul-25-09 10:04 AM   #35 
  - Obama attended private schools from the 5 to 12 grades...  mix   Jul-25-09 03:59 PM   #57 
  - I think it's the first. He believes it...  YvonneCa   Jul-26-09 12:12 AM   #72 
     - I agree  proud2BlibKansan   Jul-26-09 12:57 AM   #77 
  - This crap will stop as soon as the Democrats take back the White House and the Congress  Karmadillo   Jul-25-09 09:59 AM   #34 
  - oh my..... LOL!!! Thank you! nt  nightrain   Jul-25-09 12:27 PM   #37 
  - LOL ouch.  Political Heretic   Jul-25-09 04:33 PM   #61 
  - Am I missing something here? How is this any different than what he campaigned on?  Curtland1015   Jul-25-09 01:57 PM   #41 
  - it says scores WILL be one of those things.  Hannah Bell   Jul-25-09 02:44 PM   #47 
  - Oh certainly. I'm not denying that they're saying it will be a factor.  Curtland1015   Jul-25-09 03:41 PM   #54 
  - It was without specifics during the campaign. Now, 'A Race...  YvonneCa   Jul-26-09 12:18 AM   #73 
     - Soooo Obama is dishonest because he was vague as candidate and specific as President?  BlooInBloo   Jul-26-09 12:37 AM   #76 
        - No. I still love President Obama. I'd vote for him...  YvonneCa   Jul-26-09 10:01 AM   #80 
  - And I just love how all the righties call him "too liberal"  sutz12   Jul-25-09 02:48 PM   #49 
  - KRB&H  eppur_se_muova   Jul-25-09 03:22 PM   #51 
  - That is the biggest fucking bullshit I have ever heard.  Political Heretic   Jul-25-09 04:24 PM   #60 
  - Bump  Orwellian_Ghost   Jul-25-09 10:29 PM   #66 
  - Thanks to Obama, we are getting money to start a program in Pittsburgh that mirrors Children's Zone  EmilyAnne   Jul-26-09 12:26 AM   #74 
  - Kick  maryf   Jul-27-09 09:36 PM   #89 
 

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